Warchief Nathanos

[Ielenia]

Garrosh was still alive. He wasn't legally deposed.

"Depose" does not mean "kill a ruler".

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they should have done the right way, th horde, by challenging him and taking his position

thats false, it is a horde tradition, Cairne did, Saurfang did with sylvanus, its like saying warchief is an orc position, not horde position.

It's an orc tradition. Sylvanas had no reason to accept it, and only did so to make Saurfang suffer. And it's unlikely Garrosh would accept a mak'gora since, as he had said: the other races weren't part of his Horde.

[matrix123mko]

"Depose" does not mean "kill a ruler".

If he is alive, he is the ruler. He did not abdicate.

It's an orc tradition. Sylvanas had no reason to accept it, and only did so to make Saurfang suffer. And it's unlikely Garrosh would accept a mak'gora since, as he had said: the other races weren't part of his Horde.

Where was Saurfang, then? Where was Eitrigg? Tyrande asked that question and Saurfang remained silent.

[Enthusiastic Steward]

The worst part about playing a Horde character is having to look at his stupid face and listen to his stupid voice. No.

[Aucald]

If he is alive, he is the ruler. He did not abdicate.

Abdication is only one way a leader stops being a leader - violent overthrow is another. Legality seldom enters into it, and the leader is just as deposed (assuming they're not also dead).

[Ielenia]

If he is alive, he is the ruler. He did not abdicate.

He was deposed. A ruler is only a ruler only for as long as those under him are willing to follow his rules.

Where was Saurfang, then? Where was Eitrigg? Tyrande asked that question and Saurfang remained silent.

Eitrigg was too old. Challenging Garrosh would have accomplished nothing. As for Saurfang, I have no idea why he did not do so before. He intended to do it after Garrosh's imprisonment, but Garrosh escaped before the challenge was issued.

By the way: "Mak'gora (also written as mak'gora or Mak'Gora), meaning "duel of honor", is an orcish custom whereby someone may challenge another person to individual combat."

[Kyphael]

Human not a good look for a Forsaken, imo. He definitely doesn't look dead anymore.

I agree, he looks like he's always made up to go to a Rob Zombie concert.

[Feanoro]

I agree, he looks like he's always made up to go to a Rob Zombie concert.

Something something Dark Mirror something something modeled after a certain writer something something...

[Powerogue]

what? why?

Because the Horde willingly subjugated themselves to enslavement to the Burning Legion through Mannoroth? The whole thing being a point that no, the Horde shouldn't be lead by evil dictators, but should forge something new and push for a better future instead of falling into the same trap repeatedly. (Like Grommash, when he willingly subjugated them to the Legion AGAIN when he wanted to fight a big centaur)

The time of warchiefs is over. The last thing we need is the boot-licking lackey of Sylvanas enslaving the Horde any more than we should go find the remnants of the Burning Legion and ask for some more green gatorade.

[Aucald]

I agree, he looks like he's always made up to go to a Rob Zombie concert.

Nah, Nathanos is a bit too formal for a Zombie show - needs more black and white plaid, leather, and maybe some tassels on his jacket. He'd stick out like a sore thumb despite looking half-dead.

[LemonDemonGirl]

if its the same voice actor who literally snarls every fucking line, then I hope he dies quicker than Vojin.

I always want to slap him when he opens his mouth. At least Vol'jin (in fact most trolls are calm, even Bwonsamdi) was chill and slow when talking, Nathanos snarls every time he opens his damn mouth :/

[Aeula]

I like Nathanos. He’d be a better Warchief than who we have now (Baine).

[Mirishka]

To keep some kind of footing as the Dark Lady does so it would make sense before her eventual departure to name her champion as Warchief without anyone knowing. The Horde could not stop it since she was Warchief at the time. This also would keep the potential alliance vs horde plot alive. And Nathanos could always lie and say he betrayed Sylvanas after she named him Warchief and heard her say the Horde was nothing. As Warchief he’ll fulfill the needs of the Forsaken and be redeemed eventually as he spends time with the Horde and sees his mistake.


What supports this:
• Nathanos saw Sylvanas’ ruthlessness at the Gathering & the Burning of Teldrassil.
• Nathanos hesitated to burn Teldrassil
• Nathanos hesitated and disliked destroying Capital City.
• When Zul questioned Sylvanas’ behavior in the Horde intro cinematic Nathanos seemed conflicted but responded that it was an honor to serve his Queen.
• Overtime with the Zandalari, he became accustomed to the members of the Horde, especially Rokhan, who he becomes friends with and shows respect to the Speaker of the Horde.
• Nathanos did not execute Eitrigg.
• Nathanos, if redeemed from Sylvanas’ clutch, makes not only the best candidate for Forsaken leader but fits the Garrosh-personality type as he puts the ideals of the Horde first before others.

That makes absolutely zero sense. You don't get to betray your faction, tell them all to sod off, but name your successor before you go. Like the other guy said, the Horde would literally rip him to pieces for his role in the things she did.

This forum is full of people ripping on Blizz's writing, but then you have ideas like this to remind you how much worse it could be.

[Kyphael]

Nah, Nathanos is a bit too formal for a Zombie show - needs more black and white plaid, leather, and maybe some tassels on his jacket. He'd stick out like a sore thumb despite looking half-dead.

He'd likely be the square that gets crowd surfed into the dumpster after patronizing others on their garb.

[Syegfryed]

Because the Horde willingly subjugated themselves to enslavement to the Burning Legion through Mannoroth?

i can't see why those things are intricate, not at all, Grom was not the warchief, neither the leader, in fact, the horde enslavement was by a council, the shadow council and Gu'ldan

just because grom freed the horde don't mean the horde end there, or it should not be a warchief anymore

The whole thing being a point that no, the Horde shouldn't be lead by evil dictators, but should forge something new and push for a better future instead of falling into the same trap repeatedly.

and this was already done with thrall, why rehash the same storyline? because they are incompetent

(Like Grommash, when he willingly subjugated them to the Legion AGAIN when he wanted to fight a big centaur)

Except, grommash was not an evil dictator, he was not the warchief, and he didn't subjugated the horde, only his clan, he and the orcs were still under the bloodlust, and the presence of manoroth only made it worse.

The time of warchiefs is over.

the time of the horde is over, its now a joke crap faction of bipolar people that blizzard know nothing of what direction they should have

they misread the faction so much its barely feel horde anymore, might as well change the name to unites states of kalindor or whatever

The last thing we need is the boot-licking lackey of Sylvanas enslaving the Horde any more than we should go find the remnants of the Burning Legion and ask for some more green gatorade.

of coruse, cause ther eis only 2 options who exist, a bootlicking lackey of sylvanus or a council

in fact i rather join the burning legion again.

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It's an orc tradition.

its already evolved from a simple orc tradition dude, warchief was a orc tittle, the horde was a horde faction, every race who joined the horde accepted the horde tradition, aka, makgora, aka warchief, etc.

Sylvanas had no reason to accept it, and only did so to make Saurfang suffer.

she didn't had a reason because Saurfang was a traitor who left the horde, not because she was not an orc, and she accepted, proving in stone its a horde tradition

Cairne did that, Baine almost did and so on.

And it's unlikely Garrosh would accept a mak'gora since, as he had said: the other races weren't part of his Horde.

They should had obviously, challenged him before they rebel and before he kicked the rest.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

That defense didn't hold up well for the Nazi officers and government officials in the Nuremberg Trials. Knowingly following someone perpetrating war crimes is also a war crime.

...Which has nothing to do with WoW.

[Powerogue]

...Which has nothing to do with WoW.

I mean it has a lot to do with the current state of the Horde. Lots of Horde characters justifiably pissed off at Sylvanas loyalists and denying them services, while the other Horde leaders are going around maintaining order and insisting that any that renounced that loyalty are let back in, while any who wouldn't are in chains.

We're literally in that "we just deposed an evil leader and have a ton of people who helped her commit war crimes, what do we do with them?" phase. Last I checked, both the Horde and Tyrande are hunting both Nathanos and Sylvanas.

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Except, grommash was not an evil dictator, he was not the warchief, and he didn't subjugated the horde, only his clan, he and the orcs were still under the bloodlust, and the presence of manoroth only made it worse

He subjugated them to the evil dictators, the Legion, he might as well have been at that point, and yes he did.

in fact i rather join the burning legion again.

Well rest easy knowing, of all the directions the story is going, that is the one thing we can be 100% sure won't happen.

[Ielenia]

its already evolved from a simple orc tradition dude, warchief was a orc tittle, the horde was a horde faction, every race who joined the horde accepted the horde tradition, aka, makgora, aka warchief, etc.

Not really. At no point it is referred to as a "Horde tradition". It just seemed like it because an orc was the warchief for so long.

she didn't had a reason because Saurfang was a traitor who left the horde, not because she was not an orc, and she accepted, proving in stone its a horde tradition

Cairne did that, Baine almost did and so on.

Mak'gora does not require that both parties be in the same 'group' to happen. Saurfang challenged Malfurion to a Mark'gora.

They should had obviously, challenged him before they rebel and before he kicked the rest.

Why? Vol'jin did not trust Garrosh to be a good warchief, but still followed each and every order given to him, and Garrosh still plotted to have him assassinated in secret. Why do you think he'd accept a Mak'gora from a "lesser race", or even fight fair if he accepted?

[Trassk]

Lets face the fact, he's an awful character. People have accused other characters of being Mary Sue self inserts, but none are more obvious to this trait then nathanos. Fact that he's a got all the charisma of a highschool bully just makes him unpleasant to be around. Coupling that with his fanboy levels of avid sylvanas worship is just disgusting to think about.

[Syegfryed]

He subjugated them to the evil dictators, the Legion, he might as well have been at that point, and yes he did.

yes, the "council" of the legion, kil'jaden,archimonde, manoroth, with the plan of the shadow council,

but sure as hell with the warchief fault, and of course a council will resolve all the problems;

Well rest easy knowing, of all the directions the story is going, that is the one thing we can be 100% sure won't happen.

and sure we can say with 100% sure that that was not the worst route

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Not really. At no point it is referred to as a "Horde tradition". It just seemed like it because an orc was the warchief for so long.

its not "seems" like it, it is because the horde was the orchish faction, the horde had orc customs and traditions, when other races joined they have adopted their methods of leadership like serving the warchief and their traditions.

When you are part of the horde that give you the right to assume, to evoke the mak'gora, to challenge your warchief and take the leadership, because again, tis a horde tradition to defy your warchief and take the tittle;

there is no logic or sense to say its "just an orc tradition", its liek saying "warchief" is an orc tittle/position, if anyone want so, they could have challenged Vol'jin, because its the horde way.

Mak'gora does not require that both parties be in the same 'group' to happen. Saurfang challenged Malfurion to a Mark'gora.

and we all know it was just him bullshitting to buy time.

Why? Vol'jin did not trust Garrosh to be a good warchief, but still followed each and every order given to him

he didn't, thats why he gave the orders to kill him

and before he already sworn to kill him.

and Garrosh still plotted to have him assassinated in secret

he send assassins to kill a traitor who sworn him to death, i see no problem in his mindset.

Why do you think he'd accept a Mak'gora from a "lesser race", or even fight fair if he accepted?

Because he is warchief and he is compelled to do so by the horde laws.

He accepted from Cairne, from another race, there is no reason to think he would not accept from another.

He would fight fair yes, stupid, brute or warmonger, Garrosh still was prideful and would put honor above

[Niwes]

hell no. even if i like the sarcasm of nathanos, it would be nearly the last i ever wanted as leader of the horde (omg what horde should that be ?).

the only choice that would be even more bad than nathanos is the douche bag Baine.