Poll: Best WoW Expansion of THIS decade?

Be advised that this is a public poll: other users can see the choice(s) you selected.

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  1. #301
    Can people stop spreading this panda bullshit? Pandas are not the main reason why people don't vote mop or didn't like it. MoP was the pinnacle of class homogenization, pinnacle of repeatable content, pinnacle of repeatable raid themes and repeatable scenarios.

    People might like that sure, people love being able to have the same tools on every spec they play, I totally get that feeling, but that gives us no room for niches and depth and there are many of us that wants that in a class design. That is a main reason why Legion is much more popular compared to BfA. Artifact and legendaries and focus on spec gave us more niche, more depth but going over to BfA we lost so much of on many classes and specs. If you lose your 1-3 niche abilities and utility from one expansion to the next, in this case Legion to BfA it just doesn't feel good.

    That is the reason why they are unpruning in Shadowlands. When you remove stuff like that and don't add anything like in BfA, it do "fail". If they continued the artifact weapon or at least added the active abilities and passives to baseline, BfA would have been more popular, because in BfA they reduced the grind significantly and tuned down TFs, something a portion of the playerbase wanted. I didn't see a lot of people complaining about artifact weapon. 9 of 10 players that I have been talking to the last 3 years loved the Artifact weapon and what it gave us. It's praise, praise and more praise. Blizzards biggest mistake that they removed it and took away what it gave us. Just look at all the active abilities we lost.

    Fury of the Illidari, Mark of Aluneth, Fury of the Eagle, Tyr's Deliverence, Windburst, Crystalline Swords, Sheiluns Gift, Curse of the Dreadblades, Odyn's Fury, Light of T'uure just to name a very few, many iconic abilities just gone and barely any of them got replaced or came with the specs in BfA.

  2. #302
    MoP, unsurprisingly considering it's the best expansion period.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Can people stop spreading this panda bullshit? Pandas are not the main reason why people don't vote mop or didn't like it. MoP was the pinnacle of class homogenization, pinnacle of repeatable content, pinnacle of repeatable raid themes and repeatable scenarios.

    People might like that sure, people love being able to have the same tools on every spec they play, I totally get that feeling, but that gives us no room for niches and depth and there are many of us that wants that in a class design. That is a main reason why Legion is much more popular compared to BfA. Artifact and legendaries and focus on spec gave us more niche, more depth but going over to BfA we lost so much of on many classes and specs. If you lose your 1-3 niche abilities and utility from one expansion to the next, in this case Legion to BfA it just doesn't feel good.

    That is the reason why they are unpruning in Shadowlands. When you remove stuff like that and don't add anything like in BfA, it do "fail". If they continued the artifact weapon or at least added the active abilities and passives to baseline, BfA would have been more popular, because in BfA they reduced the grind significantly and tuned down TFs, something a portion of the playerbase wanted. I didn't see a lot of people complaining about artifact weapon. 9 of 10 players that I have been talking to the last 3 years loved the Artifact weapon and what it gave us. It's praise, praise and more praise. Blizzards biggest mistake that they removed it and took away what it gave us. Just look at all the active abilities we lost.

    Fury of the Illidari, Mark of Aluneth, Fury of the Eagle, Tyr's Deliverence, Windburst, Crystalline Swords, Sheiluns Gift, Curse of the Dreadblades, Odyn's Fury, Light of T'uure just to name a very few, many iconic abilities just gone and barely any of them got replaced or came with the specs in BfA.
    Class design in Legion was fucking atrocious(and still is in BfA). They set up rules that said each spec should have strengths and weaknesses, and then they created specs like Havoc, Fury, Arms, Affliction, Marksmanship and Balance that did everything extremely well(usually with the same build, maybe a swapped legendary here and there). At least in MoP (nearly) every spec had a functioning, well-rounded kit, in Legion only some specs got that while the rest were just inferior.
    Specs are also the most homogenized in terms of gameplay that they've been since Classic/TBC 1 button "rotations" in Legion/BfA.

    Most of the artifact abilities you listed we're glorified "do damage" buttons comparable to essences in their interaction/depth. Odyn's Fury was just current Dragon Roar with a different visual in terms of gameplay.
    Last edited by Tradu; 2019-12-15 at 12:17 PM.
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  3. #303
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    MOP/legion.

    Both felt fully fleshed out and not like they wanted to abandon ship half way through.

  4. #304
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    That is the reason why they are unpruning in Shadowlands. When you remove stuff like that and don't add anything like in BfA, it do "fail". If they continued the artifact weapon or at least added the active abilities and passives to baseline, BfA would have been more popular, because in BfA they reduced the grind significantly and tuned down TFs, something a portion of the playerbase wanted. I didn't see a lot of people complaining about artifact weapon. 9 of 10 players that I have been talking to the last 3 years loved the Artifact weapon and what it gave us. It's praise, praise and more praise. Blizzards biggest mistake that they removed it and took away what it gave us. Just look at all the active abilities we lost.

    Fury of the Illidari, Mark of Aluneth, Fury of the Eagle, Tyr's Deliverence, Windburst, Crystalline Swords, Sheiluns Gift, Curse of the Dreadblades, Odyn's Fury, Light of T'uure just to name a very few, many iconic abilities just gone and barely any of them got replaced or came with the specs in BfA.
    But you DO realize its a problem of legion not BfA right?
    Because instead of baking it into classed they use A FUKKEN RENTAL POWER GEAR.

    Things like active spells shouldn't have been on gear, they really need to stop doing that.
    WoD - Rent-A-Ring power
    Legion - Rent-A-Weapon power
    BfA - Rent-A-Neck power

    How this should have been handled? Add a fukken talent tier.

    Legion artifacts would have been good if not for AP farming, their overall power (it was ridiculously overpowered compared to rest of the gear).
    And the fact they turned iconic weapons into something common.

  5. #305
    The second half of MoP closely followed by the second half of Legion.

  6. #306
    Really depends on your own experiences. To me pre-flexible raiding was the most fun, never been the same since, and in MoP i played the most fun spec ever, an elemental shaman. So MoP it is for me.

  7. #307
    Quote Originally Posted by Tradu View Post
    Class design in Legion was fucking atrocious(and still is in BfA). They set up rules that said each spec should have strengths and weaknesses, and then they created specs like Havoc, Fury, Arms, Affliction, Marksmanship and Balance that did everything extremely well(usually with the same build, maybe a swapped legendary here and there). At least in MoP (nearly) every spec had a functioning, well-rounded kit, in Legion only some specs got that while the rest were just inferior.
    Specs are also the most homogenized in terms of gameplay that they've been since Classic/TBC 1 button "rotations" in Legion/BfA.

    Most of the artifact abilities you listed we're glorified "do damage" buttons comparable to essences in their interaction/depth. Odyn's Fury was just current Dragon Roar with a different visual in terms of gameplay.
    1-button "rotation", funny. Not like it was any different in MoP if we are at that level. Glorified "do damage" buttons, just like in every expansion in other words.

    I disagree completely, but hey, that's what humans do. I played every class and most specs in Legion, that they were not the same is what gives class design depth. Not like in MoP when for example ranged damage played exactly the same across the board. Homogenization like we had in MoP was something they luckily went away from, I mean even classes in WoD had more depth and different playstyles compared to MoP. That they all had a well-rounded kit was it's downfall.

    I could have listed 30+ more artifact abilities, both active and passive abilities that had interaction with the spec itself in Legion, and that was the thing that made most spec very playable. Legendaries and artifact weapon was in fact a part of the class design. That it took time to get there is a valid complaint, and as far as I can see, an objectively bad thing. But for players who played regularly, we had those good things most of the expansion. There were negatives for sure, like every expansion.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    But you DO realize its a problem of legion not BfA right?
    Because instead of baking it into classed they use A FUKKEN RENTAL POWER GEAR.
    It's a BfA problem seeing they didn't take those abilities into this expansion. They could have taken those abilities and spells into BfA you know, it's the same as arcane mages "forgetting" fire spells. We learned a lot of those abilities, but we forgot them somehow. It was based on the Artifact sure, but lore could have explained it.

    But if we are going to be real, it's something that happens too many times sadly, from expansion to expansion, not gonna disagree there.

  8. #308
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    MoP's on a category of its own if you are limiting it to just a decade. The second place is just so far behind that you can't even see which it is.
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  9. #309
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    Legion definetly was the best expansion for me.
    I'd go as far as name it the best expansion wow had overall.

  10. #310
    BFA, objectively, by a country mile.

  11. #311
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    Cata was my favourite in a lot of aspects. I didn't play all of MoP, but I did enjoy some of that, too. Cata seemed better for me, though.

  12. #312
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    1-button "rotation", funny. Not like it was any different in MoP if we are at that level. Glorified "do damage" buttons, just like in every expansion in other words.

    I disagree completely, but hey, that's what humans do. I played every class and most specs in Legion, that they were not the same is what gives class design depth. Not like in MoP when for example ranged damage played exactly the same across the board. Homogenization like we had in MoP was something they luckily went away from, I mean even classes in WoD had more depth and different playstyles compared to MoP. That they all had a well-rounded kit was it's downfall.

    I could have listed 30+ more artifact abilities, both active and passive abilities that had interaction with the spec itself in Legion, and that was the thing that made most spec very playable. Legendaries and artifact weapon was in fact a part of the class design. That it took time to get there is a valid complaint, and as far as I can see, an objectively bad thing. But for players who played regularly, we had those good things most of the expansion. There were negatives for sure, like every expansion.

    - - - Updated - - -


    It's a BfA problem seeing they didn't take those abilities into this expansion. They could have taken those abilities and spells into BfA you know, it's the same as arcane mages "forgetting" fire spells. We learned a lot of those abilities, but we forgot them somehow. It was based on the Artifact sure, but lore could have explained it.

    But if we are going to be real, it's something that happens too many times sadly, from expansion to expansion, not gonna disagree there.

    I disagree with your disagreement. Do you know a bit about Demonology Warlock rotation in mop? here's really a tip of the iceberg, its too long for a fullwriteup here, google it and mop-veins if you really want the full depth:

    You use shadowbolt, hand of guldan dot (stacking at the last second combined with demon form), corruption and fast-soulfire stacks to generate fury. You use fury to, at any point you desire, transform into a demon, which empower your abilities but makes them cost fury until you run out. You can also revert back at any time, giving you an unprecedent amount of control over your damage profile. The abilities are also not strictly "stronger" in a simple sense, they enhance the normal rotation. Shadowbolt becomes instant, but does only slightly better dps overall, and extends corruption, which is the biggest advantage. Hand of Guldan actually loses the dot and becomes overally weaker, but the damage is instant and thus burstier for snap aoe. Corruption becomes Doom, a seperate, 1 min dot which hits hard every 15 sec, meaning you always wanna go into demon form at the start of the fight to apply it, and you also want it to extend corruption through the aftermentioned instant shadowbolt, giving a ton of room for intelligent and efficent usage. Soulfire stayed the same, but demonform had a 20% damg buff so if you had nothing else to refresh soulfire spam in demonform was your highest dps moments, often saved for vulnerability phases or priority adds. The amount of control and decision making you have in comparison to bfa's affliction or enh shaman or dh is staggering.

    Destruction was somewhat similar to today, but the aoe portion was much better designed, independant on talents, and fairly deeper (not rocket-science deeper, but you could use resources to turn either immolate, incinerate or conflagrate into aoe effects, with all 3 being the proper choice depending on the situation, today it's "use soulshards on rain of fire, use aoe talents on cd". most classes aren't much better off in bfa, maybe beside unholy dk and bfa demonology).

    affliction had a similar rotation (mop haunt and bfa unstable are pretty similar in overall design), but you could use your resources for so many other things. Beside a TON of utility through Soulburn (enhance one of your utility spells at the cost of a soulshard, meaning at the cost of dps), you could use Soulburn:Soulswarp to instantly apply 3 dots to a target, giving much more options for affliction for bursting without actually being better at it than diehard bursters like today's dh. Choices breed possibility for mistakes. Possibility for mistakes allow you to feel good when you learn and improve. We don't have nearly as much of it today. I agree legion was better than bfa, its almost makes sense for bfa design to come sooner and legion to be the "polished" version, but mysteriously it went the opposite way. But alas, legion was also much less complex then most classes in mop, and prolly wod too which was similar to mop for many speccs.

  13. #313
    I'm honestly kinda surprised MoP is winning. I voted for that thinking "I'm sure it's going to be Legion by a mile."

    I'm pleasantly surprised! ^_^

    I said it durring MoP, and I'll say it again - Pandaria is Blizzard's/Metzens equivalent to Jim Henson's "The Dark Crystal". A beautiful artistic vision (Both in design and in narrative) that most people didn't give a shit about it at the time, but with age - people really REALLY learned to appreciate everything it offered.
    Last edited by mvaliz; 2019-12-15 at 06:03 PM. Reason: Changed "Nobody" to "Most people" for clarification

  14. #314
    Quote Originally Posted by Amariw View Post
    I disagree with your disagreement. Do you know a bit about Demonology Warlock rotation in mop? here's really a tip of the iceberg, its too long for a fullwriteup here, google it and mop-veins if you really want the full depth:
    Nah, I think a lot of people agree with you, I heard a lot of praise for Warlocks in MoP. And each and own spec might have had complexity, depth and so on in MoP. And Demo Lock was more the exception than the rule if you compared it to other ranged damage specs. My main grief is not that, it was how they tend to have the same toolkit, where the classes felt alike. The whole Class Design as a whole. Demo Lock was of course something completely different because of Metamorphosis and how it interacted with the spec. My main is now Demon Hunter(yes 1 button spec just to give you something) and meta alone is just making it so different to the other specs. But generally I think that class design in MoP was too much of the same. And every expansion have complex specs, and some very easy.

    How do you feel about Demo now in BfA? it is one of the least played spec in raids, lower 3/4. I think we know why it is so. And that's not a nudge to you, but the overall player-base. It do take an effort to play good with demo. It is just too many buttons for most people. I tried it personally, not for me, but I am a mage at heart so I went destruction. A more paced spec and easier, for sure. Demo looks very good though, it got a good theme to it.

    And don't get me wrong, you might as well be 100% correct that Warlock was at it's best in MoP, no doubt. Not gonna disagree just to disagree!

  15. #315
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    You clearly have rose-tinted glasses.
    Let me tell you what you could do at max level:

    Raids (present at every expansion)
    Dungeons - nope, they were useless
    Challenge modes - one time unless you had more alts.
    PVP (present at every expansion) - minus skirmshes
    Farm - do I even need to mention it was boring grind?
    Scenarios - even more boring grind since you had to do it for valor points
    Brawlers guild - yes it was good idea but it lasted maximum of week.
    Farming reps - cause there was NOTHING else to do.

    Aside from that
    - farming frogs
    - farming cloak on alts
    - doing battle pets.
    - achievements
    - farming valor points

    MoP was in NO FUKKEN CLOSE to quality. It was pure garbage quantity.

    Now aside from having all that we had before (minus challenge modes):
    - Secrets - yep, more fun than most shit we had before
    - Islands - yes a lot of people like it
    - Warfronts - boring as fuck but optional
    - M+ - probably the best game mode added since the begining of wow.
    - World quests if you are in that kind of stuff.
    - Mechagon and Nazjatar similar to timeless isle


    Also class design was garbage

    So no, you are simply delusional.
    No I'm not. Every expac after MoP was live Beta quality at every fukking stage - bugged to the boot, not balanced.
    And you can not be serious with complaining about GRIND in MoP. Grinding in MoP was a joke compared to the weirdo AP grind now and in Legion, grinding Legendaries in Legion, like what the actual fuck are you talking about? World quests are nothing but glorified dailies, islands are glorified Scenarios, give me a break. Class design was at its peak in MoP. At least compared to everything that came afterwards.

    The big difference from MoP to especially Legion and BfA: you didn't have these mandatory endless grinds like AP and Legendaries that burned you out, you were done hardcore grinding at some point, and that was a good thing. AND it had well thought through systems and features. Something that WoD, Legion and BfA all lack.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by mvaliz View Post
    I'm honestly kinda surprised MoP is winning. I voted for that thinking "I'm sure it's going to be Legion by a mile."

    I'm pleasantly surprised! ^_^

    I said it durring MoP, and I'll say it again - Pandaria is Blizzard's/Metzens equivalent to Jim Henson's "The Dark Crystal". A beautiful artistic vision (Both in design and in narrative) that nobody gave a shit about it at the time, but with age - people really REALLY learned to appreciate everything it offered.
    Na, I loved it to pieces while it was current content. I played it literally from the very first minute until the very last (not even kidding here).


  16. #316
    Quote Originally Posted by Eggroll View Post
    Na, I loved it to pieces while it was current content. I played it literally from the very first minute until the very last (not even kidding here).
    When I said "Nobody" i meant "Most people"... Sorry, I should clarify that. :P Obviously Some of us loved it while it was current and understood it for what they made (again, like us few Dark Crystal fans back in the 80s ;P)

    One of the things I've said is that Pandaria had a massive beautiful narrative and message about the endless pitfalls of following negative emotions to feed your lust for war (pride, fear, anger, ect) instead of just fighting to protect home, family, restoring balance and bringing harmony to lead you...

    ...and they tried to sell that narrative to a bunch of gamers they hand-encouraged over the past decade to fight for loot, feel more empowered via defeating big enemies, collect various coinage, and to "pwn noobz" in PVP. >_<
    Last edited by mvaliz; 2019-12-15 at 06:07 PM.

  17. #317
    Quote Originally Posted by Amariw View Post
    I disagree with your disagreement. Do you know a bit about Demonology Warlock rotation in mop? here's really a tip of the iceberg, its too long for a fullwriteup here, google it and mop-veins if you really want the full depth:

    You use shadowbolt, hand of guldan dot (stacking at the last second combined with demon form), corruption and fast-soulfire stacks to generate fury. You use fury to, at any point you desire, transform into a demon, which empower your abilities but makes them cost fury until you run out. You can also revert back at any time, giving you an unprecedent amount of control over your damage profile. The abilities are also not strictly "stronger" in a simple sense, they enhance the normal rotation. Shadowbolt becomes instant, but does only slightly better dps overall, and extends corruption, which is the biggest advantage. Hand of Guldan actually loses the dot and becomes overally weaker, but the damage is instant and thus burstier for snap aoe. Corruption becomes Doom, a seperate, 1 min dot which hits hard every 15 sec, meaning you always wanna go into demon form at the start of the fight to apply it, and you also want it to extend corruption through the aftermentioned instant shadowbolt, giving a ton of room for intelligent and efficent usage. Soulfire stayed the same, but demonform had a 20% damg buff so if you had nothing else to refresh soulfire spam in demonform was your highest dps moments, often saved for vulnerability phases or priority adds. The amount of control and decision making you have in comparison to bfa's affliction or enh shaman or dh is staggering.

    Destruction was somewhat similar to today, but the aoe portion was much better designed, independant on talents, and fairly deeper (not rocket-science deeper, but you could use resources to turn either immolate, incinerate or conflagrate into aoe effects, with all 3 being the proper choice depending on the situation, today it's "use soulshards on rain of fire, use aoe talents on cd". most classes aren't much better off in bfa, maybe beside unholy dk and bfa demonology).

    affliction had a similar rotation (mop haunt and bfa unstable are pretty similar in overall design), but you could use your resources for so many other things. Beside a TON of utility through Soulburn (enhance one of your utility spells at the cost of a soulshard, meaning at the cost of dps), you could use Soulburn:Soulswarp to instantly apply 3 dots to a target, giving much more options for affliction for bursting without actually being better at it than diehard bursters like today's dh. Choices breed possibility for mistakes. Possibility for mistakes allow you to feel good when you learn and improve. We don't have nearly as much of it today. I agree legion was better than bfa, its almost makes sense for bfa design to come sooner and legion to be the "polished" version, but mysteriously it went the opposite way. But alas, legion was also much less complex then most classes in mop, and prolly wod too which was similar to mop for many speccs.

    Man...how I miss old demo locks..been my main wotlk but slowly daded until it was gutted out in legion. MoP demo locks were a slightly nerfed cata locks (no more demonic leap, Hand of guldan is a slow and not a root, carrion swarm gone) but I was still fun.

    Cata raids (with the exception of DS) were great, especially bastion and firelands, but DS and the story line (compared to say..legion or even WoD) was off. Cata dungeons were long, and hard at the begining, which was hilarious. All those ppl complaining wotlk was faceroll and asked for harder dungeons came crying on forums to say it's overtuned.

    MoP? Good gamestyle (less than cata though). Didn't like the oriental or faction war theme. Didn't like the whole tier1 raiding, or continous grinding (rep,dailies). Liked the legendary progressing (better than RNG drop chance) which kept you involved with the exansion.

    Legion...

    Legion killed my demo lock. Legion class design was bad, and class balance was worse...(looking at you guardian druids). Legendaries RNG was a shitshow and people were benched for having the wrong leggos or had to reroll an alt hoping for the right one to drop. Argus was rushe.

    Bfa? It's a much lesser legion gameplay and content-wise, they remoed tier sets (HUGE mistake), and the grinding is just as bad as legion...only less rewarding. It's also the first exapansion I completly quit at start, all else lasted till last patch.


    Each xpac had it's pros and cons..so it mainly sums up to a personal feeling about a certain expansion. For me, it's legion>cata>mop>wod>bfa.
    Last edited by leorana; 2019-12-15 at 06:05 PM.

  18. #318
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Nah, I think a lot of people agree with you, I heard a lot of praise for Warlocks in MoP. And each and own spec might have had complexity, depth and so on in MoP. And Demo Lock was more the exception than the rule if you compared it to other ranged damage specs. My main grief is not that, it was how they tend to have the same toolkit, where the classes felt alike. The whole Class Design as a whole. Demo Lock was of course something completely different because of Metamorphosis and how it interacted with the spec. My main is now Demon Hunter(yes 1 button spec just to give you something) and meta alone is just making it so different to the other specs. But generally I think that class design in MoP was too much of the same. And every expansion have complex specs, and some very easy.

    How do you feel about Demo now in BfA? it is one of the least played spec in raids, lower 3/4. I think we know why it is so. And that's not a nudge to you, but the overall player-base. It do take an effort to play good with demo. It is just too many buttons for most people. I tried it personally, not for me, but I am a mage at heart so I went destruction. A more paced spec and easier, for sure. Demo looks very good though, it got a good theme to it.

    And don't get me wrong, you might as well be 100% correct that Warlock was at it's best in MoP, no doubt. Not gonna disagree just to disagree!
    I'm gonna have to agree with your agreement then.

    As for points raised: I donnu the specc numbers census, but I would assume most people play destruction and affliction in Eternal Palace, because they're just better built for most of the bosses. Many bosses in there have spread adds which you often have to kill quick which promotes ranged cleavers. Demo barely has any of that but destro and aff excel in it. To the best of my knowledge they also etch out better even in pure single target, so there's really no reason to take demo there beside personal flavor, and i enjoy all 3 speccs in raids so thats not a big issue for me.

    However, the majority of my retail play i put into mythic+, which i do as demo, and the majority of fellow locks i met there do the same. You could make a case for destro being equally valuble due to having an interrupt and purge that doesn't gimp its dmg, but overall demo's aoe is more versatile and less cooldown dependant, which is a big plus. I saw virtually nobody going aff above +10, imo due to aff's abysmal burst and aoe.

    So the only consistent reasoning i see for specc choices is how much it fit the content's damage profile. I don't see any evidence demo's relative complexity makes people wary of it when it would otherwise benefit them in m+ (though again, i didn't bother to check any specc census).

    As for how i feel about BFA demo, i think its a working, fun specc with a decent theme, with a bit more nuance and decision making to its rotation then most BFA speccs, somewhat encumbered by pet ai (they really need to add an instant charge for felstalkers so target switching isnt so bad), but again, not unfun. I just find it lacking in comparison to what we had. A common theme of mop warlock was that you had a ton of choices, decision making, and different ways of spending your resources. Dest was the most "bland" in that department that could only use it to ress pet or heal (still a super fun specc though), but the other two had a veritable mountain of decision making moments, won't gush about it again.

    Regarding your claim it was just Demonology that was choice-ridden (imho, all lock speccs), i can't refute it much because i didn't play many other classes back then, only monks. Locks' amazing design actually got me curious so i'm starting to read mop era class guides and comparing my memories to see if locks were an anomaly back there or it was just a time of fun design for all. I still don't have a conclusive impression, but things like Alter Time for mages or Shadow Priests being able to convert their shadow orbs to a long stun instead of their regular rotation heavy hitting dot makes me suspect something nice was afoot at the time with class design in general.

    Don't get me wrong though, i don't think Legion/BFA design is entierly devoid of fun factors. I like it less and would see it reverted, but its not all bad. Void Form for shadowpriests, despite all the fire it drew, is a pretty fun original concept that has a cool fantasy, if nothing else. Fire Mages modern Ignite mastery is both cool and smooth-feeling. Outlaw rogues' buff management is original (and at my nub level of play, pretty fun), as well as their neverending energy regeneration.

    It's just...i like decision making in combat, i like feeling i can do better if i put my mind to it. I fell in love with wow thanks to warcraft 3, an rts, which by design has decision making and multiple options built into it. WoW had some levels of that ever since vanilla, and for my lock at least the combat portion of it peaked during mop. Seeing it go in basically the opposite direction ever since has been somewhat of a gut punch, however fun other portions of the game stayed or even improved (looking at you m+).

  19. #319
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Can people stop spreading this panda bullshit? Pandas are not the main reason why people don't vote mop or didn't like it. MoP was the pinnacle of class homogenization, pinnacle of repeatable content, pinnacle of repeatable raid themes and repeatable scenarios.

    People might like that sure, people love being able to have the same tools on every spec they play, I totally get that feeling, but that gives us no room for niches and depth and there are many of us that wants that in a class design. That is a main reason why Legion is much more popular compared to BfA. Artifact and legendaries and focus on spec gave us more niche, more depth but going over to BfA we lost so much of on many classes and specs. If you lose your 1-3 niche abilities and utility from one expansion to the next, in this case Legion to BfA it just doesn't feel good..
    again. What is class homogenization? That's a buzzword followed by the explanation "everyone could do everything". Which is obviously bs. And same tools?
    1. class buffs were a thing. and every buff was provided by at most 4 out of the 11 classes. 4/11 is not everyone.
    2. target debuffs. same as 1.
    3. there were TONS of class specific tools for very unique situations: wl gate, priest leap, many shaman totems, dk grip, paladin hand of protection (et al.), and so on... So many specific tools, way more than we have now and had in Legion.

    and pinnacle of repeatable content???
    have you played m+? world quests (which are even worse than daylies for some, because they are just quests you did while leveling brought to max level)? repeatable raid themes? how about ToS and Arugs raid? looked pretty repeated to me... and scenarios? Island expeditions *cough*.
    So yeah. I would strongly disagree with the statement that MoP was the "pinnacle" of anything you stated.

  20. #320
    Legion > MoP > BFA > Cata > WoD

    Legion barely beating MoP to first just because I had a lot of fun through all of it raiding and making lots of great friends. MoP was equally amazing in parts but I did not raid actively in the first tier and only got to experience ToT from LFR point of view (one of my biggest regrets cause that raid is great).

    BFA mid of the pack - pretty good in most aspects though if you go into the small details that's where it didn't live up to Legion or MoP for me. Playing with some great people though, enjoying the dungeons and the raids have been mostly good (didn't like Uldir or Crucible THAT much but BoD and EP have been solid)

    Only really saw Cata from a guildless/casual experience so didn't have that many great times with it unfortunately. WoD last because despite playing with some great people in Highmaul and Foundry, the expac as a whole just felt so empty.

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