Mythic is too tight, guilds are dying

[Gaidax]

It's fine... also what grinding?

We're clearing Mythic raids for many years at strict 2 raids a week 3 hours each schedule. Outside of that we're free for all, we just require members to complete one m+10 per week and even that we dropped nowadays, because it's largely pointless now.

We don't have any AP or shit like that requirements and at this point it's easy as pie anyway. So pray tell what grind is there? Food is cheap as fuck, gems and enchants are cheap as fuck and flasks are provided by guild. What do you need to grind there for god's sake?

Git gud.

[apustus]

"The Grind" is just an excuse for sub-par raiders to have a scapegoat for their own performance

[Morgaith]

While mythic raiding is a bit too hard currently i think the struggle of the raiding scene comes down to BFA being a terrible expansion beyond repair.

[TyrianFC]

Feel free to link your guild logs. Lots of posts like this complain about difficulty, but ignore the fact that they have ridiculously bad players....

[Levogames]

It used to be that you can yeet a boss with one or two dead,

Totally yes
But now WoW is not fun or easy to carry anymore, only the dumbest decided to continue with progress in november.

[Sezh]

1. Blaming things on "the grind" is stupid. My guild completed BoD at world rank 276, meanwhile I maintained a marriage and a full-time job. Playing a few hours on weekends + every raid night. That's it.

2. I do agree that the tuning should be shifted somewhat. I can't remember our exact numbers but we had I think:

Champion: 0 wipes
Grong: ~3 wipes
Jadefire: 0 wipes
Opulence: ~10 wipes
Council: ~8 wipes
Rastakhan: ~10 wipes
Mekka: 50-60 wipes
Blockade: 40-50 wipes
Jaina: 200+ wipes

I don't enjoy the idea of spending the majority of progress on a whole new raid on one single boss. A more linear difficulty curve with a noticable but more modest spike distributed over the last three or two bosses would be swell.

[KaPe]

I don't enjoy the idea of spending the majority of progress on a whole new raid on one single boss. A more linear difficulty curve with a noticable but more modest spike distributed over the last three or two bosses would be swell.

... But that's exactly what we have? Orgozoa is harder than Ashvane, Queen's Court is harder still, Za'qul is a difficulty spike and so is Azshara.

[Jowany]

Mythic was always meant to be the Hardest Content, perhaps you just aren't up to it anymore?

This.. if you can't make it in time, you're just not good enough. If you're top dps in your guild, try to change guild for better one or be fine with 6/8 Raid aren't so hard, we are now rank 600 +/- and we are just semi-hardcore. I switched guild, I was in one where we couldn't finish Jaina before 8.2, now my old guild is 4th week on Zaqul and still too far from kill.
My friend also in semi-hardcore guild finished raid quite fast around rank 80, and they are not tryhard, they raid 12 hours per week (4 days).

It's hardest content, it's not meant to be for everyone.

[Ishayu]

Mythic raids are way too hard. It can't be right that under 20 Alliance guilds in the entire world gets to kill Uu'nat. I know that's the most extreme example, but beyond that it's just crazy in general. It takes hundreds and hundreds of pulls to kill bosses, it never seems to get much easier (other than the fact that you learn the fight) and it just takes 5 months to clear it for a "reasonably ok" Mythic guild like mine. We usually finish 1000th to 1500th, but despite that we barely manage to clear each tier.

There's a fine balance where something fun and challenging becomes unreasonably frustrating. It's been over 5 months, and my server Frostmane, which used to have 20+ guilds clearing Mythic, now has 2 so far this tier. I expect a total of 4-5 guilds will clear it.

It's just really, really, really hard.

This.. if you can't make it in time, you're just not good enough. If you're top dps in your guild, try to change guild for better one or be fine with 6/8 Raid aren't so hard, we are now rank 600 +/- and we are just semi-hardcore. I switched guild, I was in one where we couldn't finish Jaina before 8.2, now my old guild is 4th week on Zaqul and still too far from kill.
My friend also in semi-hardcore guild finished raid quite fast around rank 80, and they are not tryhard, they raid 12 hours per week (4 days).

It's hardest content, it's not meant to be for everyone.

People like you really ought to take a step back and listen to yourselves. Assuming there are 4 million active players, which is not unreasonable to suggest, what you're saying is:

"I'm just among the top 0,3% of players in the entire world. I'm not that hardcore."

Honestly man. Really?!

[Osmeric]

I can't even justify letting our elderly ret paladin play on progress night.

I feel attacked.

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I don't think the point of highest difficulty of a game should be "everybody must be able to complete it",

I don't think you realize the negative effect of that highest difficulty content on those who can't do it.

[Daedius]

Essences that require final Mythic raid bosses are fecking stupid...

[Actaeix]

this. the shit required to stay competitive combined with the release of classic is what's happening. it isn't mythic itself

What does this even mean, I am 7/8M close to killing Azshara and half my guild doesn't even log outside of raid time, me included. As long as you have your neck at 65 and you've got your BIS essences you're good to raid mythic.

[Jowany]

People like you really ought to take a step back and listen to yourselves. Assuming there are 4 million active players, which is not unreasonable to suggest, what you're saying is:

"I'm just among the top 0,3% of players in the entire world. I'm not that hardcore."

Honestly man. Really?!

Yea.. and how many players has AotC? I think its under 10%, so now lets talk how hard HC is.. I sometimes do LFR just for runes, and I cant believe how bad can players be.. Why noone is complaining about how hard Gladiator is? Or how hard m+25 is? There are things which are for the best players, for dedicated and skilled players, not for everyone, that's how it just is.
It is same as in real life.. everybody can play football, why is so few profesion fotbalists? Why it can't be for everybody who can play football? People and gamer have to deal with it. If they want play and complete hardest content they have to be one of the best players.. If they are good enough they can apply to better guild, if they want progression.
And there is lot of players who play for lore, leveling alts, playing pvp or m+, not everybody want raid or be mythic raider. And if you want to be mythic raider you can't be average. Some players are skilled no matter what they play, some players are good and can learn/study to get better, some are average and they cant get beet no matter how hard they are trying, and some players are just bad or they don't care..

I am not meaning it bad.. You cant complain about hardest content because it's hard.. yes, maybe CE was easier to get tiers before, but it seems, they are trying do mythic harder every tier. Now you have 3 bosses for free (almost), next 3 are little bit harder and last 2 are hard and you have minimum space for mistakes.

[Sezh]

... But that's exactly what we have? Orgozoa is harder than Ashvane, Queen's Court is harder still, Za'qul is a difficulty spike and so is Azshara.

I can't say anything about the current tier, quit before then. I was basing statement on previous tiers. Great job if Blizz has smoothed out the curve.

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I am not meaning it bad.. You cant complain about hardest content because it's hard.. yes, maybe CE was easier to get tiers before, but it seems, they are trying do mythic harder every tier. Now you have 3 bosses for free (almost), next 3 are little bit harder and last 2 are hard and you have minimum space for mistakes.

You can argue for making the last boss somewhat easier and the rest more difficult for better distribution of difficulty. World first races for instance are usually a sprint to the last boss and then stuck. Imagine mythic progress that lasts as long as currently, but maybe 40% of the time is spent on last boss instead of 90%. Someone said the curve was better this tier which I missed, but that's been the case historically.

[Tradu]

The ICC buff was good
stacking buff that made life a bit easier for those of us who arent as good or dont have the time and it could be turned off for those 'we are too leet to use the buff' idiots

Would enjoy seeing this used a bit more often

That buff would've capped out a while back as well, so guilds like OP's would be in the same situation.

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Essences that require final Mythic raid bosses are fecking stupid...

It's purely cosmetic. It's a bit disappointing compared to a mount, but that's about it.

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Reality is, harder tier raiding was more active when grinding wasnt involved, raid logging raiding is the best raiding for those that want to raid.

All this grind is just annoying, 9/10 people that quit WoW the last years have quit for this reason, they love raiding, they hate grinding pointless stuff (AP) for it because they want to play a lot when things are new, gear up, farm for a bit, and then raid log.

Forcing them to grind World Quests for the last 3 years has made many older raiders quit.

I mean, this guild i ended up taking over to casually raid, had 20-30 people + all together for 6 years until Legion, they all were around 30-40 years old, they all massively quit at Legion because they could no longer raid log, because half the guild had farmed and could do shit, the other half was useless and started causing problems.

Thats when the raiding changed, you cant expect years of raid logging, to finally grinding.

Pretty much. I do think some people(me included) overdo the grinding outside of raid time, but comparing MoP/WoD to Legion/BfA is a huge difference in terms of how close to optimal raid logging is vs doing stuff outside of raid time.

[coprax]

Mythic progress is just to tight. I'm happy that the cutting edge can have a difficult race, but us guilds floating around top 2000 are bursting at the seams.
It started in BoD and continued this tier. My guild has just stopped progress after achieving the Court kill. It's just too exhausting.

It's called Cutting Edge for a reason. It is not meant to be completed by the average player before the next tier or even expansion.
I would argue that Mythic is not too hard, but Heroic is too easy and does not give even an average guild enough resistance to be a meaningful alternate progression path.

[Tradu]

It's called Cutting Edge for a reason. It is not meant to be completed by the average player before the next tier or even expansion.
I would argue that Mythic is not too hard, but Heroic is too easy and does not give even an average guild enough resistance to be a meaningful alternate progression path.

Yeah, heroic is probably a bit too easy(with some exceptions that are randomly massively overtuned like G'huun), which is nice for those of us who just want to get heroic over with at the start of the tier to get gear for mythic, but it just causes this situation where heroic guilds end up in mythic and get stuck.

[kidstechno]

Is it me or do fights requiring 6+ WAs (like Mythic Za'qul or Aszhara) maybe feel like a bit much? Or is it just access to stuff like WA which contributes in trying to make the fight easier to the player?

[Tradu]

Is it me or do fights requiring 6+ WAs (like Mythic Za'qul or Aszhara) maybe feel like a bit much? Or is it just access to stuff like WA which contributes in trying to make the fight easier to the player?

Za'qul requires no WAs. There's a few that are nice to have(add energy mainly), the rest are just showing boss mod timers. Azshara requires like 2? Decrees and something for dispels?

[Jowany]

an argue for making the last boss somewhat easier and the rest more difficult for better distribution of difficulty. World first races for instance are usually a sprint to the last boss and then stuck. Imagine mythic progress that lasts as long as currently, but maybe 40% of the time is spent on last boss instead of 90%. Someone said the curve was better this tier which I missed, but that's been the case historically.

90% on last boss isn't accurate.. we had like 150 pulls on Ashvane, 150 Orgozoa, 73 court, 140 Zaqul and 280 Azshara. So for our guild were Ashvane and Orgozoa harder than Zaqul Azshara war so many pulls thanks to blizzard and connection problem (few players couldn't even log in whole evening including tank, so other player was tanking in offspec and it was really bad ) or player lags..