US Mislead Public on Afghanistan.

[ipaq]

Do you think you'll make that russian troll change his mind? =D

Just let him simmer...

Well the bit that says "Last edited by Radux; Today at 01:55 AM" kinda implies so

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It was, hence why the USSR was winning prior to the US aid. It was a complete gamechanger, almost overnight the rebels went from running for their lives at the mere sound of a gunship to pointing their SAMs in the direction and waiting eagerly for it to come in range.

You have to remember that the Soviet and US incursions into Afghanistan were totally different. The Soviets were supporting the elected Afghan government forces against US backed militias, the US were fighting against the insurgent forces (many of which were ironically former members of those US backed militias) while at the same time attempting to create a puppet government and army to fight alongside them.

[StillMcfuu]

It is good for the children who were raped repeatedly after the US-backed Karzai government legalized paedophilia, a practice the Taleban had ruthlessly eliminated. It is good for people who fight heroin trafficking after the Karzai government legalized it, again something the Taleban had specifically outlawed. It is good for those who were suffering from the Karzai government's systemic corruption, which again, was not as much of a factor under the Taleban.

It is good for those who support international law, the right of self-determination of individual states, and oppose any form of imperialism.

The Taleban are not angels, they have particulary horrific views about women, but they are "better" for want of an alternative phrase, than the bastards you put in charge.

Man, I have some really bad news for you...

[StillMcfuu]

Why don't you enlighten us with your pearl of wisdom, irritating nerd guy that got cheated on? I'm sure it will be a spectacular revelation not based on something you saw on TV.

Mad or something?

This guy is trying to play like the Taliban is some enlightened organization. Conveniently ignoring that part of their schemes to get the civilian population to do what they want is to kidnap wives and kids, and you know... rape them. I guess they are better though because they usually had the good sense to kill the kids afterwards, to get around that "enforced death sentence", pro-tip it wasn't.

Paedophilia is apart of Afghani culture, not a Karazhi or Taliban, or this group or that group problem.

Source, I worked closely with S2, I had access to the Intel reports, I've seen the aftermath.

[Bakis]

I only listened to half the Washington Post podcast then I sadly fell asleep cos it was 3 in the morning.
What strikes me is that it is (for me, shocking as well) when it is the exact pattern which has happened since WW1.

As Obama (I think said), it's very easy to start a war and damn hard to end a war.

[Omega10]

Just as you don't just jump into an athletic event without stretching first, the US made the mistake of going into places like Afghanistan without a proper military warm up. They needed to pick on an easier target to get the blood pumping, so to speak. With that in mind, the US should've invaded pretty much any European country first. Germany, Belgium, the Netherlands, England, any of the Nordics. So on and so forth.

Europeans would probably be less resistance than Afghan farmers and far more fun to drone strike.

Seriously? And no infractions or bans for this? This is definitely a psychotic post

[caervek]

The impact of the Stingers was greatly exaggerated. It didnt take long for the USSR to develop countermeasures.

O.o they still don't have effective countermeasures, hence why the godly power of the Hind has been almost completely diminished (as seen in Syria).

The Soviets were supporting a puppet government they put into place after the 1979 coup that removed the "legitimate" Soviet backed government that came to power in its own 1978 coup

I'm not disputing how that system of government in Afghanistan originally came to be, my point was that the reigning government were democratically elected. I.E the governmental system of my country was originally put in place via a coup (against a monarch), it doesn't make the current government non-democratic.

[Kellhound]

O.o they still don't have effective countermeasures, hence why the godly power of the Hind has been almost completely diminished (as seen in Syria).



I'm not disputing how that system of government in Afghanistan originally came to be, my point was that the reigning government were democratically elected. I.E the governmental system of my country was originally put in place via a coup (against a monarch), it doesn't make the current government non-democratic.

The AH-64 seems do be doing just fine though. Yes, some are lost, but most missions are successful. Plus, SAMs have improved to adapt to the defenses against them, which has caused the defenses to improve, and on and on....

The government the Soviet's toppled in 1979 came to power in 1978 in a coup. It was not democratic in nature.

[LiasMeh]

The US Army is building up about the same reputation as the French when it comes to military successes... which is usually what happens when you allow too much money to be thrown at something and let civilian money-grabbers / oil dollar cronies determine your military decisions.

Osama Bin Laden and Al-Baghdadi have been killed by U.S military. ISIS and ISIL could be having 500,000 fighters more. A big war in long overdue

Yesterday 75 soldiers were killed in Nigeria

[caervek]

The government the Soviet's toppled in 1979 came to power in 1978 in a coup. It was not democratic in nature.

By that logic the governments of the UK/USA/France/etc are not democratic in nature either...

I don't know if you're missing the point deliberately or unintentionally, but I'll make it clearer: It doesn't matter how the governmental system of a country originally comes into place, If the reigning government was democratically elected by the people then it's a democratic government.

[Kellhound]

By that logic the governments of the UK/USA/France/etc are not democratic in nature either...

I don't know if you're missing the point deliberately or unintentionally, but I'll make it clearer: It doesn't matter how the governmental system of a country originally comes into place, If the reigning government was democratically elected by the people then it's a democratic government.

The 1979 government was not democratically elected.....

[caervek]

The 1979 government was not democratically elected.....

Look, I've tried explaining this to you three times now and I think I've done a fairly good job. Could you like, just PM me and say if you're deliberately straw-manning or if you genuinely don't understand? That way I know to give up or not? Thx.

[Kellhound]

Look, I've tried explaining this to you three times now and I think I've done a fairly good job. Could you like, just PM me and say if you're deliberately straw-manning or if you genuinely don't understand? That way I know to give up or not? Thx.

You wrongly tried to hand wave the Soviet overthrow of one government and the placement of a puppet government as them aiding a democratically elected government....

[Mormolyce]

Remember back in the Bush Administration when anyone with a brain cell said this was the case and conservatives screamed and whined and moaned and called them traitors? Remember "cut and run"?

Every 10-15 years all conservative talking points finally get flushed down the toilet like they always should've been, and all those people who defended them at the time are whistling and looking the other way.

[caervek]

You wrongly tried to hand wave the Soviet overthrow of one government and the placement of a puppet government as them aiding a democratically elected government....

Not even close /sigh.

I guess you're not even reading the posts you reply to...

[Kellhound]

Yeah, what a terrible government.. Giving equal voting rights and political rights to women, etc.

But I bet you preferred the monarchy that Afghanistan had?

At least the monarchy was smart enough to know the reality of the mindset of the people throughout the country. Afghanistan was not then, is not now, and may never be, ready to embrace Western political thought.

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Not even close /sigh.

I guess you're not even reading the posts you reply to...

"The Soviets were supporting the elected Afghan government forces against US backed militias" is what I was replying to. I guess you dont even remember what you write....

[Tharpalasar]

Yeah, what a terrible government.. Giving equal voting rights and political rights to women, etc.

But I bet you preferred the monarchy that Afghanistan had?

The Soviet-backed government didn't legalize child rape like the US-backed Karzai government did.

That's what the Americans are defending here: them literally standing guard outside huts where children were being raped.

[arandomuser]

the war had like 90% approval when it first started, after 9/11 everybody across the political spectrum wanted revenge, the vote for the war was almost unanimous

Imagine if any senator voted against the war that was popular especially during bushes re election with a POPULARITY OF 70%! it was political suicide, this is what voters WANTED.

and most of the anti war propoganda was from russialeaks, sorry i mean wikileaks mix them up because wikileands is directly given information from russian intelligence

[caervek]

"The Soviets were supporting the elected Afghan government forces against US backed militias" is what I was replying to. I guess you dont even remember what you write....

/sigh.

I'll be optimistic and assume you are somehow failing to understand and not just loling out the thread, so I'll try one last time to explain: It does not matter how a countries governmental system originally came to exist, if the government of the day was democratically elected by the people then that is a democratic government.

Seriously based on your logic the current US, French and UK governments are all illegitimate post coup dictatorships...

[arandomuser]

Unilateral?
But no shit that it had 90% approval when it first started (though I doubt it was THAT high). You can easily get support like that if you face no consequences for lying.

lol meant unanimous brain messed up during typing still my point remains, unanimous consent, this is something the public demanded, and if a president DIDNT do anything after we were attacked theyd be considered treasoners by the public

[Kellhound]

/sigh.

I'll be optimistic and assume you are somehow failing to understand and not just loling out the thread, so I'll try one last time to explain: It does not matter how a countries governmental system originally came to exist, if the government of the day was democratically elected by the people then that is a democratic government.

Seriously based on your logic the current US, French and UK governments are all illegitimate post coup dictatorships...

THE GOVERNMENT THE USSR WAS SUPPORTING WAS NOT ELECTED!!!!! Its that simple. There was no democratic vote putting them in power, there was no democratic vote to keep them in power.