So I went Merc Mode to help Alliance in Korrak's Revenge

[Eliot123]

I agree with you on this, be ware though that someone will (correctly) contradict you and tell you how's it theoretically possible for alliance to reach SHB at the same time or earlier...but that's only if the entire Defense team knows the route (very unlikely) and uses their glider at the right time (also unlikely). Meanwhile...the horde noobs simply run at it with no strange detours.

Thus, in practice, alliance cannot defend SHB initially, but can clap the horde with Timewarp/lust inside SHB immediately after and recap (I save my drums for this moment !!!! <3 )

I'm quite sure half the horde AFKS inside SHB at the start of every game since they outnumber our D team and yet they get wiped every time lol.

.

I didn't know that about SH bunker nor have I ever seen it happen, but yeah I guess while theoretically possible, it'll never happen outside of premades, nor -let's be honest- should we have to go to those extreme lengths to just have a 10% chance of defending our own bunker.

Obviously Blizzard doesn't give a damn about any of this though, and while the xp is good, it's be nice to win more than 1-2% of these AVs as Alliance.

[ONCHEhap]

It's not about winning, it's about leveling characters, people don't do korrak for fun, they do it to level their toons. One side has to lose, if one side loses quickly - everyone gets lots of experience, that's a modern gaming thing

And every single player that thinks like that is irrelevant and shouldn't be listened to

[Odinfrost]

I didn't know that about SH bunker nor have I ever seen it happen, but yeah I guess while theoretically possible, it'll never happen outside of premades, nor -let's be honest- should we have to go to those extreme lengths to just have a 10% chance of defending our own bunker.

Obviously Blizzard doesn't give a damn about any of this though, and while the xp is good, it's be nice to win more than 1-2% of these AVs as Alliance.

That is one of the bigger problems. Alliance has to do optimal movement to reach a place to defend at the same time as Horde reaches said place to attack by just running. It makes it that much harder for the Alliance since they still have to cross Field of Strife and get to the tower to have "progressed" as far as the Horde.

[deenman]

It doesn't change what I said. PVPers at the top level will pick races based on racials and what gives the advantage. The faction doesn't matter to top PVPers. If horde racials are the best for PVP then top PvPers go that way if its Alliance then that way. At the time Alliance racials were the best way to go in PvP so the top PvPers picked humans. If Orcs got an OP racial then they'd pick Orcs. The faction is not a consideration.

yep,and i agree,thats why i said that to a person saying ''horde are tryhards''

[Shalaator]

I didn't know that about SH bunker nor have I ever seen it happen, but yeah I guess while theoretically possible, it'll never happen outside of premades, nor -let's be honest- should we have to go to those extreme lengths to just have a 10% chance of defending our own bunker.

Obviously Blizzard doesn't give a damn about any of this though, and while the xp is good, it's be nice to win more than 1-2% of these AVs as Alliance.

Like I said...only in theory. In practice impossible. This give the horde an initial advantage in a public setting.

[Bumkin]

alliance is shit at pvp we know this since the dawn of time nothing new

[Dejavuproned]

Did all of Korrak's Revenge AV purely for levelling as did about 3/4 of the raid group. Most were not quite bothering with it after a short while, but here is some notes as an Alliance player.

-First push to IB GY, IB Tower and TP was usually a success if there were two parameters: good use of crowd control on the elites and numerical superiority on the offense. As I had classes that could use ample crowd control (Mage and Rogue), the first part was easy; however most of the offence had managed to die way beforehand and the offense consisted of a handful at best.

-The movement from FW GY to the towers is a cascade of pushing through an entire village of Frostwolf NPCs which are quite formidable at Level 60 with your health dampened. On most losses, I was witnessing a cap of FW GY but we were either running short on reaching the towers, or the towers were midway to being capped altogether.

It goes without saying that the Horde advantage is also in terms of reaching Stonehearth faster, de facto, compared to the Alliance reaching Iceblood. Add that the Field of Strife is also reached faster and you can easily pick out an offensive attempt by committing a part of the raid on the towers. As such, most of the Alliance raid is settled at Stonehearth Graveyard early on, making the battle defensive and potentially lengthy. Since people wish for their experience, they become lenient in allowing the Horde through.

Nevertheless, the last win was with a redoubt on Stormpike Graveyard. I believe that the Horde team on the other side was getting desperate and they were looking to bypass from the Dun Baldar Pass and backdoor Stormpike from the mines, but on all occassions they were uncovered. They made a breakthrough when they summoned the Frost Lord, but in the meantime the Alliance raid had capped FW GY and was on the process of reaching the keep. The Alliance won despite the Frostwolf towers falling after the Dun Baldar ones, possibly because the Horde raid was in disarray with rushing.

So conslusion, yes Alliance can win Korrak's Revenge if the raid is working cohesively, but it means the fight will take some time and there will be a lot more sweat compared to the Horde side. I gathered that the Horde team was quitting more frequently after the 45 minute mark was hit, unbalancing their raid as such. Psychology is a major factor for both sides. One enters with a sure thought that defeat is inevitable. In contrast, when the other side realises that their easy victory is not really coming, they lose their nerve.

Is it worth it? I doubt it. Rather go for some actual battleground where the teamwork is genuinely better and the players are committed. But Korrak's Revenge is like a social experiment.

Don't the horde reach stonehearth faster because they actually spawn right close tower point? It's an absurd advantage that few horde are willing to admit to. Horde already have a cap going on stonehearth before alliance even reach the IBGY. This and the tower vs bunker advantage for horde and other stuff that op posted about and its no wonder horde win most of the time.

Sure it's possible that Alliance can win, I won about 7 or 8 times on my dk while levelling him (and yes I was always trying to win) but that was with 23 or so losses too. It takes alot more effort to win as alliance and even if eveything is basically executed perfectly on Alliance offense and both sides are zerging, timers are always out of our favour by about 30 seconds or so (the starting difference) and the loss is almost unavoidable.

It also depends on time of day it seems. I've had my best results late night (like 10pm - midnight MST).

I'm also concerned that Merc mode does little to help alliance. Most horde pvpers I've seeb are pretty hardcore "fer teh herd!!!" so I doubt there is a legitimate drive to help the alliance win and more likely to troll. Something I've long suspected and op kind of just confirmed.

OP not withstanding of course, but op seems to be in minority when it comes to merc mode.

I would love to see an experiment where merc mode is disabled for 3 months or so to see if things on alliance stabilize at all. I swear I remember a time before merc mode when alliance took bgs more seriously and won their share.

I realize that this would punish the horde and legit merc mode players like op that actually want to win due to queue times. But things need to be brought back into line, it's getting absurd.

Then again these are the Devs that brought us Korraks revenge and refuse to fix the obvious skew so we can probably just expect more of the same. Along with occasional jabs at alliance to show us how they really feel.



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[Logwyn]

yep,and i agree,thats why i said that to a person saying ''horde are tryhards''

Opps! Sorry I misunderstood ya!!!

[Charge me Doctor]

And every single player that thinks like that is irrelevant and shouldn't be listened to

You can ignore them, but it won't stop them from ruining games

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This just reinforces the fact that BGs shouldn't give experience.

At this point i think it shouldn't give anything of value. Or insignificant amount. Because if losing/winning gives something people will lose/win quick. If stalling will give something people will stall. People who aren't interested in BGs, those who are there only for rewards are going to find a way to abuse any kind of instanced content.

[Dastreus]

"Take portal to Org? Yes / Cancel"

:O

Mind blowing I know, I should be a dev.

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So they can go in and get 2 kills/assist then AFK? Whatever minimum you put to combat afkers will be what they do and if you set it too high you risk affecting legit players and then you have rage threads on your hands. Or even worse you'll get "Blizz nerfed Korrak's" in chat and then you have longer Q times on your hands.

What solution, then? Simply having loosers not get anything would also make the situation worse. People would leave matches that are perceives as losses, pretty much ensuring it is a loss. Alliance would also que less since it's horde that wins, mostly. Aaaaand then longer que times, anyway.

[Borgmore]

Could you not have tried to say this in fewer words....for example; I have a small dick so I over compensate in forums.

[Drusin]

What solution, then? Simply having loosers not get anything would also make the situation worse. People would leave matches that are perceives as losses, pretty much ensuring it is a loss. Alliance would also que less since it's horde that wins, mostly. Aaaaand then longer que times, anyway.

I'm no AV guru or Korrak's xp wizard, only did Korrak's like 10 times and haven't been in AV prior to that for years. So some of what I say may be wrong or it may be how it currently is and I'm unaware. Instead of awarding a blanket amount of xp for winning/losing award xp for "participating". Let's assume today the max amount of xp you can get from AV is 1000 since I like small numbers

I heard there's "ticking" xp? Not sure if that's accurate or not, if it is I'd remove it or nerf it. Then:

Let's say capping a tower/bunker/gy or being within range while it's being capped gives 250xp
Participating in the Galv/Bal kill gives another 250xp
Doing x amount of damage/healing (I don't know what an acceptable amount for this would be because of lack of experience) gives 250xp
Winning gives 750xp
Losing gives 100xp

If I saw this in patch notes as an AFK'er my new minimum would be to be at least in range of the tower/bunker/gy cap, at least tag Bal/Galv, do x damage/healing so I'd have to stay with the group. That will only get me 3/4ths of what I used to get though. I could opt to AFK at this point and receive my 3/4 xp or I could try to get a victory and get 500 more xp, which would be a 50% bonus to today's current xp values.

This could all be shit, I'm no game designer lol But you get what I'm saying right? XP rewards for activity instead of blanket XP.

[Shalaator]

I'm no AV guru or Korrak's xp wizard, only did Korrak's like 10 times and haven't been in AV prior to that for years. So some of what I say may be wrong or it may be how it currently is and I'm unaware. Instead of awarding a blanket amount of xp for winning/losing award xp for "participating". Let's assume today the max amount of xp you can get from AV is 1000 since I like small numbers

I heard there's "ticking" xp? Not sure if that's accurate or not, if it is I'd remove it or nerf it. Then:

Let's say capping a tower/bunker/gy or being within range while it's being capped gives 250xp
Participating in the Galv/Bal kill gives another 250xp
Doing x amount of damage/healing (I don't know what an acceptable amount for this would be because of lack of experience) gives 250xp
Winning gives 750xp
Losing gives 100xp

If I saw this in patch notes as an AFK'er my new minimum would be to be at least in range of the tower/bunker/gy cap, at least tag Bal/Galv, do x damage/healing so I'd have to stay with the group. That will only get me 3/4ths of what I used to get though. I could opt to AFK at this point and receive my 3/4 xp or I could try to get a victory and get 500 more xp, which would be a 50% bonus to today's current xp values.

This could all be shit, I'm no game designer lol But you get what I'm saying right? XP rewards for activity instead of blanket XP.

I actually agree with this. And the person that would "afk" might be inclined to at least a push or two before they actualy afk since they already invested their effort in it.

[Xaviaton]

My favourite thing about Alliance in Korrak is that whenever these things are brought up, you have 15 people argue that "No, it's because Horde has a massive advantage in this BG and it's impossible to win anyways, not our fault!" You're making me wonder now if these are the Horde mercs after all

[Dastreus]

I'm no AV guru or Korrak's xp wizard, only did Korrak's like 10 times and haven't been in AV prior to that for years. So some of what I say may be wrong or it may be how it currently is and I'm unaware. Instead of awarding a blanket amount of xp for winning/losing award xp for "participating". Let's assume today the max amount of xp you can get from AV is 1000 since I like small numbers

I heard there's "ticking" xp? Not sure if that's accurate or not, if it is I'd remove it or nerf it. Then:

Let's say capping a tower/bunker/gy or being within range while it's being capped gives 250xp
Participating in the Galv/Bal kill gives another 250xp
Doing x amount of damage/healing (I don't know what an acceptable amount for this would be because of lack of experience) gives 250xp
Winning gives 750xp
Losing gives 100xp

If I saw this in patch notes as an AFK'er my new minimum would be to be at least in range of the tower/bunker/gy cap, at least tag Bal/Galv, do x damage/healing so I'd have to stay with the group. That will only get me 3/4ths of what I used to get though. I could opt to AFK at this point and receive my 3/4 xp or I could try to get a victory and get 500 more xp, which would be a 50% bonus to today's current xp values.

This could all be shit, I'm no game designer lol But you get what I'm saying right? XP rewards for activity instead of blanket XP.

There ya go. THose are good ideas.

[Zyrinx]

Sorry if this is common knowledge, but what level can you go Merc as Horde? And where is the NPC (is it just the Dalaran sewer dude, or is there another one?)

[Dejavuproned]

My favourite thing about Alliance in Korrak is that whenever these things are brought up, you have 15 people argue that "No, it's because Horde has a massive advantage in this BG and it's impossible to win anyways, not our fault!" You're making me wonder now if these are the Horde mercs after all

Lol and are they wrong? Why is it ok for horde to whine about AV being alliance favoured for years/a decade even after it stopped being so (like honestly it was basically balanced by Wrath but you still hear horde complaining about it to this day) but when blizzard releases a version that's hilariously skewed in hordes favour PLUS all that other stuff, alliance can't say **** about it?

Not saying that other stuff doesn't need to be addressed, because it certainly does, but Alliance have every right to gripe about the situation in that battleground.

Worse part is this BG COULD be better then current AV and I would love for it to be kept around if blizz just fixed the damn thing.

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[kaid]

The Alliance understood long ago that levelling in Korrak is faster if they throw the match

Given the nature of the BG and defense options for horde vs alliance generally if you have near instant queues playing for fast losses is more rewarding than forcing enough defense to actually having a chance at a victory. There are too many spots where a handful of horde defenders can stymie the entire O long enough that unless alliance all backs and forces a hard reset they lose the race. A lot of the alliances supposed choke points work against the alliance. Like once you lose stonehearth bunker the horde can hold the top of that hill against any number of alliance almost indefinitely but the alliance can't effectively use that choke point against the horde.

If the horde decides it wants a turtle slog fest there is almost nothing the alliance can do to prevent that.

[Unlimited Power]

I remember during WoD doing Ashran where horde and alliance figured it'd be far more lucrative to just avoid the other faction and do your own thing. In our case that resulted in horde constantly doing the events popping up and alliance clearing the horde boss over and over.

Eventually Blizzard had to nerf the spawn time on events and how often you could push the enemy base to get the factions at each others throat, but that just resulted in horde more or less dropping Ashran altogether because it was never particularly fun in the first place.

As for Korrak's Revenge, not sure what Blizzard can do to fix the balance, and unless it's gonna be a recurring event, whether there's really any point to it. At least it's a more fun (and very quick) way of leveling alts past level 60 over chain questing and dungeons. Even more so for those of us with both the Arena Grand Master heirloom trinkets. Heck, even losing every game I can get a character from 110-120 in less than 3 matches.

[Shalaator]

Today Korrak keeps starting with 21 alliance vs 40 horde (20-25 alliace average), by the time the other 15 alliance join game horde has SPGY.

Compound this with the Ram herders, afks and Korrak rushers, and you get a 5v40

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Alliance wins most game sin the 9:00-11:00 PM EST timezone.

Went 5-2, then start losing again