Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker

[Syegfryed]

it would be better to have a trilogy with the jedi jar jar binks

[SunreaverTich]

Seems unlikely as they put out a new comic to start a series about kylo on Wednesday. It seems like they will most likely flesh out the trilogy with extended material.

Going the route of "required reading" for a series generally hasn't been the most favorable. Making spin offs or other archs works, but "required reading" to understand the basic premise of a series of movies isn't the way. The Marvel movies appeal to a broader audience BECAUSE it doesn't require "required reading." Now for the more nerdy of us, we will go read those stories, and see how they tie into the greater narrative. That's the point, it should be designed to ties things together, not fill the plot holes. "Resistance Reborn," is a key example of the incorrect way to do this. (I'm not going to speak on a Kylo comic directly because I honestly had no idea about it, nor have any interest in it.)

The OT and PT didn't require us to go read about them before and after to understand the story, the extra material we were given were just addons in general and came after their respective film trilogies. Some good, some bad. Correct me if wrong, but I don't think Lucas said "you must read this book before watching Revenge of the Sith," compared to "Resistance Reborn" being pushed as reading required to understand the gap between VIII and IX.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Going the route of "required reading" for a series generally hasn't been the most favorable. Making spin offs or other archs works, but "required reading" to understand the basic premise of a series of movies isn't the way. The Marvel movies appeal to a broader audience BECAUSE it doesn't require "required reading." Now for the more nerdy of us, we will go read those stories, and see how they tie into the greater narrative. That's the point, it should be designed to ties things together, not fill the plot holes. "Resistance Reborn," is a key example of the incorrect way to do this. (I'm not going to speak on a Kylo comic directly because I honestly had no idea about it, nor have any interest in it.)

The OT and PT didn't require us to go read about them before and after to understand the story, the extra material we were given were just addons in general and came after their respective film trilogies. Some good, some bad. Correct me if wrong, but I don't think Lucas said "you must read this book before watching Revenge of the Sith," compared to "Resistance Reborn" being pushed as reading required to understand the gap between VIII and IX.

You absolutely would need to read some stuff if you wanted to understand the gap between episode 3-4 and they made multiple shows and a movie to explain the gaps between episode 2-3.

The prequels are a disjointed mess without any extend material as they go for huge jump jumps between them and while the prequels are better they left massive unawnsered questions when they came out like how they don’t explain the emperor at all.

Required reading (or watching in the clone wars case) has always been a massive thing in Starwars and where most of the lore/explanations of the franchise came from.

[Traveler Voltin]

Yeah I heard about that just recently in fact; but the timeline for the final season coming out doesn't change that Revan never appeared because it was cancelled.

if its being allowed to be shown, then it will probably be canon

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Feb 2020. my disney+ account confirms this

well that is cool

[SunreaverTich]

You absolutely would need to read some stuff if you wanted to understand the gap between episode 3-4 and they made multiple shows and a movie to explain the gaps between episode 2-3.

The prequels are a disjointed mess without any extend material as they go for huge jump jumps between them and while the prequels are better they left massive unawnsered questions when they came out like how they don’t explain the emperor at all.

Required reading (or watching in the clone wars case) has always been a massive thing in Starwars and where most of the lore/explanations of the franchise came from.

Now I can agree with you here, as the prequels did jump around a lot, but Clone Wars was an "addon." It came three years after Revenge of the Sith, and that show was an episodic show that had more Easter Eggs and additional content rather than direct explanations of missed canon. The 3D Clone Wars didn't even explain Greivous's cough in Episode 3 whereas the traditionally animated at least did that. The Episode III to IV thing is a different topic for sure. We had both sets of films at that point to kind of make our own thoughts about it, and it will be somewhat fleshed out with the Kenobi show on Disney+, at least somewhat.

In reference to the emperor, yeah, it was sort of vague, but most watchers (unless totally blind to the story as a whole) knew who Papa Palpatine, The Senate, etc, was before watching them. Even if they didn't, at least it was revealed in the narrative of the three films that he was the evil space wizard in Episode VI.

My point is, Clone Wars, the games and comics didn't predate the release of Episode III, nor did the games and material after Episode I lead into II really. You and I are going to gobble up the extra content, but general audiences didn't really need it (nor were offered it) prior to the release. Disney, knowing that VIII and IX were so drastically different, released this book with the premise of it being required to understand where the story actually is once Rian ended it like it was the end to a spin off film.

[Fayolynn]

What a shit argument hardly worth replying to lmao. Love when people like you pull shit out of your ass to try and stretch an argument.

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Why are you so butthurt at this? I never said nobody enjoys those stories. I said it's lazy writing to give a character power "just because". Starwars, Superman, whoever is commonly criticized for doing so. But it doesn't stop people from enjoying the story anyways.

I'm here to say it's lazy. If you think it's pinnacle writing, which you most likely don't, then that's great. But I find it's a cop out and misses the opportunity to add more depth to the character. To argue any further is to admit you're doing this because you're upset I disliked something about your all time favourite thing to fanboy over.

Nice straw man there bud. Me pointing out that you are wrong doesn't mean I'm upset and butt hurt. The fact that you had to resort to an ad hominem attack pretty much speak for itself.

[RangerDaz]

I was hoping Qi'ra was Rey's mother, or Luke was her father... ah well

Qi'ra was actually the most interesting character that Disney created in these 5 movies. I wonder what will they do to her? I would love to see Emily again in the star wars franchise.

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Disney is stepping away from this trilogy and this movie is proof (not that they actually cared in the first place). More evidence is that the series is moving on to things like Mandalorian with actual good creatives at the helm like John Favreau and Dave Filoni, not overrated folks like, Kathleen Kennedy Jar Jar Abrams and Rian Johnson.

Disney found out that they messed up the skywalker saga. Neither Abrams or Johnson managed to successfully create engaging stories for the skywalkers. Perhaps too many pressures from many disney departments (like the marketing one) end up creating frankenstein stories...

I guess they also knew brand new stories in the star wars universe have a lot of potential. At least for that, it is good that they bought Lucasfilms so they keep expanding the star wars stories away from George's main characters.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Now I can agree with you here, as the prequels did jump around a lot, but Clone Wars was an "addon." It came three years after Revenge of the Sith, and that show was an episodic show that had more Easter Eggs and additional content rather than direct explanations of missed canon. The 3D Clone Wars didn't even explain Greivous's cough in Episode 3 whereas the traditionally animated at least did that. The Episode III to IV thing is a different topic for sure. We had both sets of films at that point to kind of make our own thoughts about it, and it will be somewhat fleshed out with the Kenobi show on Disney+, at least somewhat.

My point is, Clone Wars, the games and comics didn't predate the release of Episode III, nor did the games and material after Episode I lead into II really. You and I are going to gobble up the extra content, but general audiences didn't really need it (nor were offered it) prior to the release. Disney, knowing that VIII and IX were so drastically different, released this book with the premise of it being required to understand where the story actually is once Rian ended it like it was the end to a spin off film.

Actually the original clone wars cartoon came out a few years before Episode 3 so you would need to watch that if you wanted to know what was going. There are likely other examples to but that’s the only one off the top of my head.

As far as what Disney did with how much time as passed since the OT they had to put something out to explain the gap rather that be pre or post TFA.

[SunreaverTich]

Actually the original clone wars cartoon came out a few years before Episode 3 so you would need to watch that if you wanted to know what was going. There are likely other examples to but that’s the only one off the top of my head.

As far as what Disney did with how much time as passed since the OT they had to put something out to explain the gap rather that be pre or post TFA.

Right, I mentioned the animated Clone Wars show as well in my post, and yes it did predate it, but the only thing that it really gave us that was relevant was the 5 minutes before Episode III started where The Senate is kidnapped and Windu crushes Grievous's chest plate/lung. The rest was just for fun (and I loved it for sure).

When you make mention of the books that came out before TFA, they weren't required reading, general audiences and fair weather fans could go walk into TFA and get an idea of what was going on. From the confirmed leaks of this new film, reading Resistance Reborn is about the only way to understand where our heroes are starting, it's not extra material that helps the reader understand where the galaxy is at (the books predating TFA that fleshed out why the New Republic demilitarized, etc). TLJ ended so vaguely that we really had no idea where our heroes were going next. In II we knew our heroes were going to be fighting in the Clone War "Begun the Clone War, has," etc. At the end of V we knew our heroes were going to be rescuing Han next. VIII? Where did VIII leave off? Everyone's on the Falcon in hyperspace and broom kid? Resistance Reborn basically tells the story that SHOULD have been at least somewhat started by the end of VIII, but wasn't. Which is the heart of my point. The movies thus far have been self contained narratives enhanced by addon material, not half-assed narratives that REQUIRE additional content.

[Elim Garak]

I enjoyed this movie.

It answered all the standing questions:
1. Rey's parents
2. Rey's power
3. Snoke
4. Knights of Ren
5. Leia's force training

Ended the saga with a clean slate. The Palpatine bloodline lives on, though.

It also connects back to The Force Awakens with Finn being force sensitive - that's what made him leave the first order, I always suspected that he was back when I first saw TFA.

I liked how they tapped into the EU for the Sith "soul" transfer (SWTOR has a similar plotline) and healing by Force transfer.

I didn't like that Rey took the Skywalker name
I didn't like the whole dagger thing
I hoped for Rey to kill Grandpa and then fight him in her mind with the help of all the Jedi - but I understand why they didn't copy SWTOR completely.

I'm sad that Ahsoka Tano is dead (you can hear her voice as one of the dead Jedi coming to aid Rey)

[shadowmatrix]

Has anyone realized that the best parts of Star Wars are the parts that make it about the war overall rather then trying to make it about just the Skywalkers? In the original trilogy Luke, Vader, and Palpatine were merely piece of an overall story, it fell apart when we started forcing the Skywalker Legacy.

PS: No the prequels are not good. In a shit versus shit fight both sides are still shit.

[eschatological]

So George Lucas had no effect on Indiana Jones to stay just "within universe"?
It isn't something new, it's always been there, with a different types of executive producers having different amounts of impact.

George Lucas created and wrote the predecessor character (Indiana Smith) to Indiana Jones, and then had "Story by" credits on all three of the original Indiana Jones movies. He was credited as a creative in the series, and sometimes prominent creatives get EP credit as well (this is especially common in TV, where, for example, Benioff and Weiss had EP credits on Game of Thrones). Notice, the Producer credit on Indiana Jones was Frank Marshall for Raiders, and Robert Watts for the last two movies. No one thinks the movies are their creative vision.

Typically you see very little impact from them when we're talking stand alone movies. Because they are rarely creative, but when you supervise something whose lore already exists, they are often much more hands on to make sure it overall fits together.

I am not saying Kennedy should've made all the story and simply had someone execute it, but she should make sure the story of a threeparter works together, that directors she hires work together properly, and the endproduct is a whole experience instead of a fractured mess.
If you can't do that, you hire ONE person to make an entire trilogy.

As someone mentioned earlier, it's not only the trilogy that's been a mess in the higher rankings, producers have come and gone, lets take an example:
Quote from Variety:
Miller and Lord were stunned to find that they were not being granted freedom to run the production in the manner that they were accustomed to. They balked at Kennedy’s tight control on the set.

So clearly she sees it as her job... To some extend, right?

https://variety.com/2017/film/news/s...ed-1202473919/

The article you quoted talks about the clash between them in re: how they ran their set. Not on their creative vision for the movie. She "did not approve of their shooting style and process of interacting with actors and crew," which reads, to me, that people hated working for those directors.

Note, the article says clashes arose between the creatives on set - the writer, Kasdan, and the directing duo. It doesn't say anything about her firing them for creative differences between HER and them, but for reasons entirely within the scope of being an EP - clashes between Kasdan (who wrote the screenplay) and the directors, actors and crew against the directors, how they did their shooting schedule, etc. It was labeled as "creative differences," but those creative differences were between Kasdan, the writer, and the directors. And Kennedy came down on the side of Kasdan, who literally wrote ESB and the first Indiana Jones movie you so lovingly referenced. If she had shitcanned Kasdan, well, that would be fucking hilariously worse.

[Kyphael]

Has anyone realized that the best parts of Star Wars are the parts that make it about the war overall rather then trying to make it about just the Skywalkers? In the original trilogy Luke, Vader, and Palpatine were merely piece of an overall story, it fell apart when we started forcing the Skywalker Legacy.

PS: No the prequels are not good. In a shit versus shit fight both sides are still shit.

I have to differ, Star Wars is only good when it involves the Skywalker family drama. Outside of that, the war aspect of it is meaningless. Star Wars is a space soap opera and the Skywalkers are the crux, everything else is just fluff. In Return of the Jedi especially, the conflict between the Emperor/Luke/Vader is the highlight, you think anyone gave a shit about Han, Leia, and Ewoks throwing rocks and chucking spears at Storm Troopers? That was the worst part of the movie.

Other supporting characters are good too, like Lando, Jabba, Boba Fett, Han, Chewie, but you always go back to the Skywalker saga for the meat of the story.

And Revenge of the Sith remains my favorite Star Wars movie to this day, because it's what got me into Star Wars to begin with.

[SunreaverTich]

Has anyone realized that the best parts of Star Wars are the parts that make it about the war overall rather then trying to make it about just the Skywalkers? In the original trilogy Luke, Vader, and Palpatine were merely piece of an overall story, it fell apart when we started forcing the Skywalker Legacy.

PS: No the prequels are not good. In a shit versus shit fight both sides are still shit.

I can somewhat agree, but mostly cannot. I agree because the "Skywalker Saga," was a drummed up term by Disney to get your nostalgia dollars when it really has nothing to do with them by the end of VIII. When we look at I-VI...most of the important moments did not really surround supporting characters or the war at hand. It surrounded Anakin, Luke and Leia (to a small degree).

Outside of the Order 66 scene...what other part of the narrative didn't involve the Skywalkers in some way? The moments that did not were mostly just exhibition to sell toys and show off technical, and practical filming prowess. Not that I didn't enjoy those moments, they just weren't the focus of the story...ever.

[RangerDaz]

The Palpatine bloodline lives on, though.

This is what i didn't get on the Disney's creative decisions!

The skywalker family ends. The Palpatine family lives on... Palpatine wins either way (losing or winning the fight). Adopting a new name is a joke...

Really, Disney?

[SunreaverTich]

This is what i didn't get on the Disney's creative decisions!

The skywalker family ends. The Palpatine family lives on... Palpatine wins either way (losing or winning the fight). Adpoting a new name is really a joke...

Really, Disney?

JJ is a narrative genius fr...just look at Kelvin timeline Star Trek. haha

[RangerDaz]

I have to differ, Star Wars is only good when it involves the Skywalker family drama. Outside of that, the war aspect of it is meaningless. Star Wars is a space soap opera and the Skywalkers are the crux, everything else is just fluff. In Return of the Jedi especially, the conflict between the Emperor/Luke/Vader is the highlight, you think anyone gave a shit about Han, Leia, and Ewoks throwing rocks and chucking spears at Storm Troopers? That was the worst part of the movie.

Other supporting characters are good too, like Lando, Jabba, Boba Fett, Han, Chewie, but you always go back to the Skywalker saga for the meat of the story.

And Revenge of the Sith remains my favorite Star Wars movie to this day, because it's what got me into Star Wars to begin with.

I actually enjoyed much more the prequel triology rather than the disney triology.

Yes the prequel triology had many flaws: Jar jar Binks, the boring Anakin car race, the horrible Anakin and Amidala romantic story, are some of the flaws. But I really enjoyed the whole prequel story combined and the end result. This Disney triology... i just don't connect with it.

[Jastall]

Has anyone realized that the best parts of Star Wars are the parts that make it about the war overall rather then trying to make it about just the Skywalkers? In the original trilogy Luke, Vader, and Palpatine were merely piece of an overall story, it fell apart when we started forcing the Skywalker Legacy.

PS: No the prequels are not good. In a shit versus shit fight both sides are still shit.

Indeed, if you ask me the less Star Wars is about the Skywalkers, the better it is. The franchise's best material had basically nothing to do with the main saga movies, with the exception of Empire.

That's why I don't care much if that movie is bad (which it looks like it is). It doesn't erase the good stuff like KOTOR 1 and 2 or Rogue One.

[SunreaverTich]

Indeed, if you ask me the less Star Wars is about the Skywalkers, the better it is. The franchise's best material had basically nothing to do with the main saga movies, with the exception of Empire.

That's why I don't care much if that movie is bad (which it looks like it is). It doesn't erase the good stuff like KOTOR 1 and 2 or Rogue One.

Well, yeah, I have to agree that some of my favorite content was completely divorced from the movies, but his post seemed to be more connected to the main timeline movies, and not with KOTOR, etc.

The Revan storyline from KOTOR 1 and 2 is by far my favorite Star Wars material.

[Pozz]

George Lucas created and wrote the predecessor character (Indiana Smith) to Indiana Jones, and then had "Story by" credits on all three of the original Indiana Jones movies. He was credited as a creative in the series, and sometimes prominent creatives get EP credit as well (this is especially common in TV, where, for example, Benioff and Weiss had EP credits on Game of Thrones). Notice, the Producer credit on Indiana Jones was Frank Marshall for Raiders, and Robert Watts for the last two movies. No one thinks the movies are their creative vision.



The article you quoted talks about the clash between them in re: how they ran their set. Not on their creative vision for the movie. She "did not approve of their shooting style and process of interacting with actors and crew," which reads, to me, that people hated working for those directors.

Note, the article says clashes arose between the creatives on set - the writer, Kasdan, and the directing duo. It doesn't say anything about her firing them for creative differences between HER and them, but for reasons entirely within the scope of being an EP - clashes between Kasdan (who wrote the screenplay) and the directors, actors and crew against the directors, how they did their shooting schedule, etc. It was labeled as "creative differences," but those creative differences were between Kasdan, the writer, and the directors. And Kennedy came down on the side of Kasdan, who literally wrote ESB and the first Indiana Jones movie you so lovingly referenced. If she had shitcanned Kasdan, well, that would be fucking hilariously worse.

You need to read the full article again if that's what you got from it.