Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker

[Shadowferal]

Just a shame, then, that [Rey's] story should have so little emotional resonance, and that the Skywalker saga, with its 42 years of cinematic tradition, should end on such a charmless whimper.

[Radeghost]

Or...it's Palpatine being full of himself. Which is what the downfall of his character always was. You know, consistency with an established character trait from the other movies? The exact opposite of 'bad writing.'

It's hard to be consistent with Palpatine, but I bet he would learn from his mistakes

[Yoshingo]

Rey using the Force to get a couple of blows on someone with a melee weapon when she uses a melee weapon ... totally unacceptable.

And was also heavily wounded and severely emotionally compromised, which we know directly affects your power with The Force, and is something they repeatedly bring up in the next two movies?

NAW BAD WRITING LUL.

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It's hard to be consistent with Palpatine, but I bet he would learn from his mistakes

His one flaw is that he thinks he can outmaneuver everybody and that his plans cannot fail. That's been his established flaw since he was created.

You're asking for him to just be some omniscient unstoppable god with no weakness in the name of stopping 'bad writing.' Villains with a flaw are good lol.

[Darththeo]

Luke lost almost every single battle in the Original Trilogy.

• Gets beaten up by Tusken Raiders, saved by Obi-Wan

• Returns to his home too late to save his Aunt and Uncle.

• Nearly gets killed by an angry alien in the catina, saved by Obi-Wan

• Nearly gets crushed in a trash compactor, saved by R2D2

• Nearly caught by Darth Vader, saved by Obi-Wan providing a distraction

• Nearly killed by Darth Vader before he could reach the end of the trench, saved by Han and Chewie

• Beaten up by a Wampa and nearly eaten. Stumbles out into the cold and nearly dies, saved by Han.

• Gets shot out of the sky and loses his copilot.

• Fights Darth Vader and gets his arm chopped off.

• Falls to his death, saved by Chewie/Leia/Lando

• Botches his rescue attempt of Han, his friends have to take a risk to salvage his operation and save him

• Is unable to defeat the Emperor, has to be saved by Vader sacrificing himself.

Rey's original escape plan on Jakku fails as the First Order destroyed the ship she wanted.
Rey originally flew high on Jakku and is told by Finn to fly low.
Rey gets captured by Kylo on Starkiller Base.
Rey is launched against a tree and nearly killed by Kylo in TFA.
Rey is saved from the destruction of Jakku by Chewie in the Falcon.
Rey is tortured by Snoke in TLJ.
Rey would have died against Snoke's guard if not for Kylo.


Seriously, you don't get to have different rules for Luke then you give Rey.

Also, some of your Luke things are false.

Luke wasn't going to be captured by Vader ... Vader intended to let the Falcon escape, is it possible he could have been caught? Yes, but we don't know what would have happened if LUKE HADN'T BLASTED THE DOOR CONTROL CLOSING THE DOOR.
Also, the "botched" plan to save Han was part of Luke had planned ... seriously, did you ignore the signal he gave R2 and the "Let us go or die" to Jabba? Seems like it wasn't just "his friends" bailing him out to me.
Also, Luke chose not to fight the Emperor after realizing he was on the verge of becoming Vader.

[Radeghost]

Rey, for me, is really unlikable and I couldn't care less about her. I'd be happy if she was killed offscreen or retconned, so the saga would focus on knights of ren, Luke, Leia, Han Solo, Kylo Ren, Finn..

[Relapses]

His valid opinion huh? Just whining about "muh sjws ruin star wars" is now a valid legitimate opinion?

Okay lol

Again its not acting in bad faith to quote when someone does the exact thing I say people have been doing to poison the well. But keep repeating yourself maybe you'll convince yourself it was.

Is there such a thing as an invalid opinion? Come on, dude. You obviously came into the topic looking to start shit about the SJW aspects of the movie and were just waiting for somebody to take the bait so you could have a gotcha moment. You know, something that "bad faith actor" would do.

But hey, you keep fighting the good fight and shitting on TLJ like it matters.

[Ihavewaffles]

well, he could have brushed rey aside like with kylo, against a wall, dazed her, THEN force lightning her, but nah, lets go with the strategy against mace windu cuz that worked so well one on one...

If john wick is about complex, cool, beautiful fights, this end fight was the exact opposite pushes buttons on light sabers, takes two steps forward, emperor dies while never stopping channeling force lightning, so basically he uses rey to suicide himself?... So basically you don't even have to be a jedi to kill him, since most people know how to push a button n walk forward.

[Yoshingo]

Is there such a thing as an invalid opinion?

Yes, there is. There are plenty of invalid opinions. Like people believing autism is caused by vaccines or the world is flat or that there's a pedophile ring in DC masquerading as a pizza joint.

Or randomly claiming "failed women empowerment" is why Rey is what she is and thus the movie is bad or whatever the fuck that cluster of nonsense was.

You obviously came into the topic looking to start shit about the SJW aspects of the movie and were just waiting for somebody to take the bait so you could have a gotcha moment.

WHAT LOL. I wasn't even talking about "sjw stuff" until that first post I made today.

But hey, you keep fighting the good fight and shitting on TLJ like it matters.

Uhhh it kind of matters when people are directly using it in reference to their comments about this movie. Sorry that you were upset you were called out my guy.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Luke:
1) Trusted by every "Hero" he meets in the OT. Obi-wan is explained, but Han trusts him enough to follow for the chance of money? Yeah, that seems pretty weird.

This is taken out of context. Obi-Wan arranged for the payment. The Falcon was forcibly tractor beamed into the Death Star and they have to work together if there is any chance of escaping. When Han finds out about the princess, he realizes it's a chance to make some reward money. By the time the party reaches Yavin, they've been on an adventure with each other and know what is at stake.

2) Luke is given one of the few fighters that the Rebellion had over pilots who flown with the Rebellion for years because why? Leia said so?

Luke was established as an experienced Skyhopper pilot.

3) Luke manages to outfly trained Imperial pilots in a ship he never had been in before. (Yes, I know it is explained that the X-Wing is similar to his skyhopper, but that is never stated in the movie).

He was flying with a squad, which protected him and took out most of the enemy Tie Fighters.

[Relapses]

Yes, there is. There are plenty of invalid opinions. Like people believing autism is caused by vaccines or the world is flat or that there's a pedophile ring in DC masquerading as a pizza joint.

People are completely entitled to have stupid opinions. You can disagree with the merits of somebody's opinion but it doesn't make it invalid.

[Yoshingo]

People are completely entitled to have stupid opinions. You can disagree with the merits of somebody's opinion but it doesn't make it invalid.

Yes and those opinions are invalid. They're so completely untethered to the truth that they don't even deserve to be taken seriously. To do so would provide validity to something completely and utterly detached from reality.

Having a female Star Wars hero is not some "sjw" conspiracy born from "failed women empowerment." Especially when Rey has to be repeatedly saved by other characters in this movie alone.

[Darththeo]

This is taken out of context. Obi-Wan arranged for the payment. The Falcon was forcibly tractor beamed into the Death Star and they have to work together if there is any chance of escaping. When Han finds out about the princess, he realizes it's a chance to make some reward money. By the time the party reaches Yavin, they've been on an adventure with each other and know what is at stake.

Han a character that was established earlier having dropped a shipment of spice to save his own ass, suddenly wants to risk his life to save a princess for the chance at more money? Again, seems odd. Han was ex-Imperial remember? He knows their security. Why would Han even trust a "farmboy" he just met that there would even be a reward for saving Leia?

Luke was established as an experienced Skyhopper pilot.

You stated this, when I then included that in my next point. Funny. Also, he was granted the right to fly on Leia's word of a pilot ... still over more experienced pilots the rebellion had. Both in Legends and Canon, there were pilots that sat out the fight because the Rebellion didn't have enough fighters for all of them.

He was flying with a squad, which protected him and took out most of the enemy Tie Fighters.

We actually don't know canonly how many ties were taken out by Luke vs the rest. In legends, Luke destroyed most of the ties.

---

I am not arguing for you to like Rey or accept she is well written or anything like that. I am just pointing out people let the crappy writing of both Anakin and Luke slide because they come up with justifications while ignoring the justifications for Rey. I just want people to be consistent.

I don't believe that they are being sexist, just they are being just the next wave of angry Star Wars fans. I lived through the Prequel wave, and the hate there was no different for me.

[PACOX]

Rey, for me, is really unlikable and I couldn't care less about her. I'd be happy if she was killed offscreen or retconned, so the saga would focus on knights of ren, Luke, Leia, Han Solo, Kylo Ren, Finn..

And your response to not liking her is nonsense buzzwords and 'omg look at the feminism'?

[Relapses]

Having a female Star Wars hero is not some "sjw" conspiracy born from "failed female supremacy." Especially when Rey has to be repeatedly saved by other characters in this movie alone.

I'm not disagreeing with you? I've already clarified that I'm not supporting that other dude's shitty opinion, just that he has the right to have it regardless of how "utterly detached from reality" you seem to think it is.

[Yoshingo]

I'm not disagreeing with you? I've already clarified that I'm not supporting that other dude's shitty opinion, just that he has the right to have it regardless of how "utterly detached from reality" you seem to think it is.

He can have it all he wants and people can dismiss it as conspiracy bullshit too. You act like all opinions need to be equally considered when they very clearly do not.

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And your response to not liking her is nonsense buzzwords and 'omg look at the feminism'?

Also the Knights of Ren? They did jackall in the entire trilogy and then get killed off in the final movie. Nothing they've done in any of the 3 movies was worth the repeated fan theorycrafting about them. They amounted to nothing and then were destroyed by Ben easily.

[PACOX]

You stated this, when I then included that in my next point. Funny. Also, he was granted the right to fly on Leia's word of a pilot ... still over more experienced pilots the rebellion had. Both in Legends and Canon, there were pilots that sat out the fight because the Rebellion didn't have enough fighters for all of them.

I just want to jump in. Its like handing over the keys to a tank to someone who once drove a four-wheeler. Every time someone brings up the Mary Sue argument they look like a 1st grader who is painfully trying to weave their vocab word of week in every sentence.

[Relapses]

He can have it all he wants and people can dismiss it as conspiracy bullshit too. You act like all opinions need to be equally considered when they very clearly do not.

They do when you're obviously looking to start an argument on the internet. :^)

But I'm not going to get into the meta game here. Like I said, keep fighting the good fight and shitting on TLJ.

[Darththeo]

I just want to jump in. Its like handing over the keys to a tank to someone who once drove a four-wheeler. Every time someone brings up the Mary Sue argument they look like a 1st grader who is painfully trying to weave their vocab word of week in every sentence.

While there is another person standing three feet away who is already trained to drive the tank.

Note to others: I am pretty sure PACOX and I already know the explanation of "X-Wings and Skyhoppers have similar controls" there is no need to add it.

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Also the Knights of Ren? They did jackall in the entire trilogy and then get killed off in the final movie. Nothing they've done in any of the 3 movies was worth the repeated fan theorycrafting about them. They amounted to nothing and then were destroyed by Ben easily.

They had Ben 6 on 1 and couldn't beat him even with Ben not having a saber.

[Darththeo]

Minor annoyance from the movie.

Apparently, Poe was a spice runner that left to join the Resistance despite previously being a New Republic X-Wing pilot before being recruited by Leia directly? Did they ignore that fact from the books leading up to the Force Awakens or did I imagine that?

[Shadowferal]

Saw the movie today. It was alright. Better than Last Jedi atleast. :P

I'm hearing that from several.
Damning with faint praise though.