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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    No it doesn't, since you can like parts of a game and criticize others. Mind blowing revelation, I'm sure.
    And the whole premise of this thread is that the OP is getting angry over it. Hence me saying that if it is making him angry, maybe step away from the thing making you angry? Like, is it really worth your mental health over?
    So yes, stop playing/doing the thing that has a negative impact on your life .

  2. #142
    Herald of the Titans Aoyi's Avatar
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    I agree that BFA seemed particularly poor, but WoW has never been known for its story. Blizzard has always focused on gameplay over lore and rule of cool. I don't disagree that it could have been better (I stopped playing recently too), but I wasn't expecting amazing writing going into this.

  3. #143
    Old God Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aoyi View Post
    I wasn't expecting amazing writing going into this.
    Neither was I, but BfA's story has been so abysmal so far that it makes SC2's or even D3's look decent. I still don't get why didn't we get some internal noise within each faction (e.g. KT's vs Jaina, Rastakhan/Talanji vs Sylvanas) while at the same time fleshing properly Aszhara's and especially Tentacle Boi's stories. The outcome, unification included, would have been the same but without cities' or characters' destruction.

    But I guess that fate was cast once !@#$ hit the fan with the burning of Teldrassil.
    Quote Originally Posted by trimble View Post
    WoD was the expansion that was targeted at non raiders.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Maylander View Post
    Exactly. The overall story has always been bad, which the amount of retcons prove. I think the main reason it "worked" (less whining) previously was the simple "here's the bad guy, go kill it" approach Blizzard used initially. These days they're trying to tell some sort of engaging story, which makes it so much more obvious that it's barely coherent.

    The smaller, less complex stories found in each individual zone still work well though, and have probably never been better than they are in BfA.
    This. When you start to pay attention to Warcraft story, even from back in the days, you start to realize that it doesn't really make sense.

    It's not supposed to be well-written, it's supposed to be cool, and since the story of this expansion is so scattered between patches, it becomes harder to follow so you start picking up the smaller and stupid things.

    And, tbh, I think that BfA is one of the expansions with the most well-written story.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Walross View Post
    This. When you start to pay attention to Warcraft story, even from back in the days, you start to realize that it doesn't really make sense.

    It's not supposed to be well-written, it's supposed to be cool, and since the story of this expansion is so scattered between patches, it becomes harder to follow so you start picking up the smaller and stupid things.

    And, tbh, I think that BfA is one of the expansions with the most well-written story.
    The problem, I think, is that WoW has shifted to be more narrative focused over the years.
    If you think back to Classic, we had a series of major revisions compared to what came before. First they retconned away the three-sided alliance that fought Archimonde, pretty much undoing most of the faction development back then. They had night elves simply give up their isolationist nature and joined an alliance based on a whole different continent consisting of races they barely knew, while the Forsaken were pushed towards the horde with some superficial friction, but still easily accepted. Stormwind Humans were suddenly a major military force again, mostly having recovered from the war off-screen and pretty much not been touched by the scourge.

    But what even is the overarching story of Vanilla? Simple: there isn't really one. Classic is mostly about a series of sometimes loosely connected threats, internal and external. The closest we get to a coherent plot is the Blackrock Saga with Dagran, Nefarian, Onyxia and Ragnaros. Don't get me wrong, the quests themselves were neat and nicely told in parts, especially for the limitations of the time. But that was only one of the threats in vanilla and only one of the story threads. After that we got - sudden bug god incursion. Sudden troll/blood god incursion. Sudden Kel'Thusad retconned into being ressurected. Then, sudden legion-ish invasion.

    In short, there was no overarching story for all of Vanilla. BC came closer, playing out as a series of more interconnected threats all before the backdrop of outland. But the overarching plot was again somewhat diffuse. I mean we come in there with a big legion backdrop, as if this was a whole legion world staging an invasion. Then it turns out those are just remaining demon forces stranded there by Illidan, involved in a multi-faction war and control only a relatively meager part of Outland itself. Why exactly they would try to go conquer Azeroth when they couldn't even conquer Honor Hold or Shattrath is not explored and doesn't really make any sense. There were again neat individual stories and arcs, but the overarching one doesn't make sense. We just go around attacking the villains stranded in Outland while Ilidan sits in his temple pretty much doing nothing, suddenly being as stupid as leave Maiev in a lightly guarded prison ruin.

    Yet, these two iterations of WoW are often seen as having better writing, even though they had their shares of inconsistencies, stupid villains and retcons. And I think the reason why is frankly because they have such a light overarching story. Later expansions would become more and more story focused and driven, which gave much more prominence to the overall narrative. It no longer was a somewhat nebulous thing connecting different parts, but instead it was something players were almost always aware of. But that also means there is a lot more scrutiny and the issues become more prominent as well. Back in Classic and BC, characters like Jaina, Thrall and Sylvanas were mostly just fancy quest givers. They rarely really drove the story or had any arcs for players to observe. In fact, they had very little to do. And if you don't do much, you also can't really do something wrong in a narrative. It was only when characters started to move from the background into the foreground that issues started to become more apparent.
    Blizzard was always kind of bad at cohesive story writing. It just wasn't very noticeable when the story was in the background, pieced together by players over time, or when it was contained to a relatively short story arc. But once they switched from that to a more in the face approach and started doing 'proper' expansion storylines, people start noticing it when they screwed up.

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiri View Post
    Sudden Kel'Thusad retconned into being ressurected.
    he wasn't killed in the first place

  7. #147
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorianus View Post
    "I dont like thing, therefor it's bad", every time game X releases the number of hobby writers crying wRiTiNg bAd increases in unmeasurable numbers, suddenly every "Gamer" is a high art Connoisseur, newsflash Warcrafts Lore is aimed at 12 Year old's since ATLEAST Warcraft 3 in substance.
    Pretty much.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Warcraft never had an award-winning story, that's a given... but this must be the first time that it has managed to piss off Alliance and Horde fans alike, even worse than MoP.
    It's like the more they try, the worse it gets.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by OneWay View Post
    Battle for Azeroth is one of the most engaging and immersive stories we ever had.
    Prove me wrong.

    - - - Updated - - -

    On the topic, I am really stunned how you just "see things". You don't really try to understand anything of it because phrase "between the lines" is fairy tale.
    Not quite how it works, if you're going that route the onus on you is to describe why you think this harebrained, focus group pandering nonsense should be more accepted.

    To me, it just t comes across like low grade fanfiction. I relate to the OP, the narrative in BfA is so bad it legitimately makes me irritated and I'm usually not at all picky about plot. If you're going to dial it up and make it more present though at least one part of it has to be likable, a good cast, some good humor, some good hooks, anything.

    This game just feels like such a fucking product now, there's no soul whatsoever left.
    Last edited by Merin; 2019-10-09 at 11:40 AM.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Indres View Post
    No matter how much the Horde beat the Alliance they always just won anyway. Lordaeron plaguebombed and lost their entire army? Just summon jaina. She can suddenly remove blight and blast walls with a magic ship and teleport them anywhere.
    When they started godmoding back in Warlords of Draenor, I knew we were fucked. "Oh no, we're cornered! Good thing I can put up an invincible arcane barrier and teleport an infinite distance!" They've been doing it ever since; Blizzard characters have such godlike powers that you can't have an accurate sense of what they're able (or unable) to do. Tyrion and Varian can die in one short cutscene, while Jaina, Sylvanas, et. al. near Gul'dan-levels of "Dammit, she got away!"

    Also, people whose contribution to this thread is "BEAUTY IS IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER, I LOVE IT" are
    1) Committed to an aesthetic philosophy which is both abhorrent and unable to be lived-out
    2) Failing to add to the discussion in any way
    3) Unfamiliar with the basic elements of a good story

    I'm not saying you can't disagree. You just can't disagree by saying, "I disagree, therefore your argument is moot!"

  11. #151
    Scarab Lord Polybius's Avatar
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    WoW can't tell a story as good as it tells plot. If you paid attention throughout the years you'll know the story has never made sense.

    Even MoP, now praised for the campaigns, was criticized. Its more interesting stories were told outside the game. People complained that the game required novels to better grasp the story. Now here we are, with a game actually moving forward in-game but failing in execution.

    What's funnier are the complaints about Jaina and Svlvanas. Meanwhile we had characters like Thrall, Khadgar, Medivh, Illidan, Arthas etc. achieving Mary Sue levels of power, protected by plot armor.
    Last edited by Polybius; 2019-10-09 at 12:19 PM.

  12. #152
    Don't get all this hate towards BfA story. WoW story went to trash with TBC, it got slightly better with Wrath but then went downhill for good with cata. If people endured that and all that came later I don't think its fair to say BfA is awful. Its actually pretty good compared to the story disaster TBC and cata were.
    English is not my main language so grammar errors might happen.

  13. #153
    Personally I have found this expansion to be the most engaging in terms of story. Every step I've felt excitement and really enjoyed it
    It has been my absolute favorite expansion to date!^^

  14. #154
    Titan Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amnaught View Post
    You mean redeeming herself from not killing Horde people when Kul Tiras needed it, by killing Horde people when Kul Tiras needed it, and never showing an ounce of regret for the massacre of innocent Horde elves in Dalaran and the Zandalari king?

    Nothing she has done implies for a second that the Horde shouldn't put her out of her misery. She redeemed herself to Kul Tiras, not the Horde.
    Dalaran occurred when she was indeed crazy and the attack on Dazar'alor was supported by the entirety of the Alliance, Golden-Boi Anduin included. There is a difference between fighting for the Alliance and being an emotional nutjob.

    That being said, @Arrashi has a point. Considering how hilariously schizophrenic Jaina has been turned by Blizzard, you never know for sure.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keyblader View Post
    It's a general rule though that if you play horde you are a bad person irl. It's just a scientific fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Heladys View Post
    The game didn't give me any good reason to hate the horde. Forums did that.

  15. #155
    Mechagnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by Life-Binder View Post
    yes, but WoW story has never ever been good
    that includes vanilla (which didnt have much of a story), TBC and Wrath too

    so I hope you bitched then too


    have a nice day





    P.S. I am talking about the major expansion-focus main (raids/cinematics) story .. some smaller stories/zones/quests have been good
    What was nice about Vanilla, was that you made your own story.

  16. #156
    Merely a Setback Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indres View Post
    We begin with «Who attacked first» at blizzcon. They’ve villain batted the horde since the beginning of time, what a suprise they also attacked first... AGAIN. We could have had Jaina burning it down to frame the horde or have the alliance attack first for once but nooo...

    No matter how much the Horde beat the Alliance they always just won anyway. Lordaeron plaguebombed and lost their entire army? Just summon jaina. She can suddenly remove blight and blast walls with a magic ship and teleport them anywhere.

    Then they realised that their writers couldnt fucking write a morally grey story so they give the alliance straight up Purge squads to kill the Vulpera. Totally not out of character

    Alliance didnt lose a single character while the horde lost 3, what a suprise

    Sylvanas literally having the support of 99% of the horde and wins the mak’gora but they make her throw it the last minute because «We kinda writed outselves into a corner, time for plan B»

    Fuck even Game of Thrones Season 8 is a literary masterpiece compared to this
    Lot of the other stuff you said was fine, but where did you get that statistic from exactly? It's false of course since we see horde standing with saurfang at the gates of orgrimmar.

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Lot of the other stuff you said was fine, but where did you get that statistic from exactly? It's false of course since we see horde standing with saurfang at the gates of orgrimmar.
    99% might be off by quite a bit, still the majority of the horde stood with Sylvanas until she decided to reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee out.

  18. #158
    BfA is not even reasonable anymore. I am very sure Sylvanas is the main issue. She is shown to be literally undefeatable. She fought the Lich King on her own and had no problem in defeating him without even a single scratch.
    With that in mind, why did she just leave Orgrimmar at the end of the War Campaign? Seeing just how powerful she was, it was not beyond reason if she defeated the entire army od the Alliance and Horde and submit them on their own.
    I am so glad i started rewriting World of Warcraft.

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by ZenmasterStar View Post
    BfA is not even reasonable anymore. I am very sure Sylvanas is the main issue. She is shown to be literally undefeatable. She fought the Lich King on her own and had no problem in defeating him without even a single scratch.
    With that in mind, why did she just leave Orgrimmar at the end of the War Campaign? Seeing just how powerful she was, it was not beyond reason if she defeated the entire army od the Alliance and Horde and submit them on their own.
    I am so glad i started rewriting World of Warcraft.
    The writing is bad, but this feels dishonest.

    She did not defeat the Lich King on her own. In fact, a great deal of her power is attributed to another source. Don't get me wrong, the writing with the Jailer/Sylvanas has been atrocious, but its not without its own logic.

    She left Orgrimmar because the civil war, in the context of whatever the Jailer is doing, was silly and pointless. She said "The Horde means nothing" because her leadership as Warchief was mostly a charade. Considering the Horde and Alliance, by that point, had racked up an atrocious bodycount her annoyance with the politics had reached its peak.

    Let's also recall that we all get swept up by the Jailer at the start of Shadowlands ANYWAY, so in a sense, yes, she will just destroy us all in the end anyway.

    The problem I have with most of this is that it is inconsistent. Too many cooks in the kitchen, leading to characters with wildly different motives, inconsistent pacing, poorly timed reveals, and a dash of "expectation subversion". Unfortunately Blizzard writers think we're idiots, and openly lay out their mediocre plot. I keep seeing youtubers catch these "hints" and accidentally deriving a much more nuanced, deeper plot which ultimately just disappoints everyone.

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Carnagefiend View Post
    The problem I have with most of this is that it is inconsistent. Too many cooks in the kitchen, leading to characters with wildly different motives, inconsistent pacing, poorly timed reveals, and a dash of "expectation subversion". Unfortunately Blizzard writers think we're idiots, and openly lay out their mediocre plot. I keep seeing youtubers catch these "hints" and accidentally deriving a much more nuanced, deeper plot which ultimately just disappoints everyone.
    Indeed. Poor Bellular. He comes up with some pretty unique theories only for them to be invariably turn out to be wrong.

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