Can we talk future WoW, 10.0 and beyond.

[Fyersing]

I'm proposing this for years. I would see it like that:

- on 10.0 pre-patch every 50+ char get squished to 50
- 50 and lower stay at same level
- 10-50 is whatever, mandatory Shadowlands for new players.

This is basically how I've imagined it working, as well.

The release of 10.0 would shift all level 60's into level 50's, again, and all of the 9.0 (Shadowlans) content would be introduced into the pool of legacy content that players are allowed to choose to level through (i.e. BC, WotLK, Cataclysm, MoP, Warlords, Legion, BfA, and Shadowlands). Simple, clean, efficient.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

the world revamp already happened, it was cataclysm and it was a disaster that resulted in player's interest to drop from a level never to be seen again. the more revamps, the less players there will be, the less money they'll make. they learned it the hard way. remember this: the team CHANGED. try to preserve what you like, or you will lose everything.

So it's time to undo and fix the Cataclysm.

[Ielenia]

That problem occurs because of the squish.

Yes, but it was not the feature's goal.

[Halyon]

Yes, but it was not the feature's goal.

No, but byproducts shouldn't be ignored either. Of course, there are acceptable detriments, I wouldn't count this one among them, speaking for myself.

[Sansnom]

It's bad now? I don't see many voices against level squish and quite a lot people loving it.

A lot? Some for sure. I recall when they changed from 80 to 85 rather than 80 to 90, there are opposition to that since it was only "5" levels rather than "10".

And this may shock you, but every expac since BC is hard reset and loss of power. Leveling for that specific bracket become a chore, dead weight for that game. Level squish cut lot of this, so leveling will become what it should be - journey where you learn new abilities and how to play your character.

You going to have to expand this so someone as ignorant as me can understand. I do not see how changing some numbers is going to make levelling as it should be.

I really do not see how me taking 1 hrs to from level 50 -> 51 and acquire 1 new skill is any different to from level 50 -> 55 and acquire 1 new skill. All that changed is I acquire 1 level in the new system rather than say 5 from the old system.

But if they keep adding 10 levels every expac (especially since they won't give your new spells or talent row like on BC/Wrath), dead weight will cumulate and become a problem few years from now. So one idea will be another squish in few years, another - solving this pernamently with idea like mine.

Again I do not see the difference in levelling from 120-> 130 to resetting back to 50 and level to 60. What exactly changed besides the numbers?

Now I do agree at some point the numbers becomes so large it starts to be becomes meaningless. I play D3 and see billions of points of damage is odd. But apart a number charge, which is cosmetic, nothing else changes.

Not getting new spells is a separate issue, regardless of whether at level 50 or level 150.

[MrLachyG]

So they are making some pretty bold moves with Shadowlands coming with the level squish.

For those that don't know they'll be bringing the max level down to 60 and your level 120 will be brought to level 50.

There's a new leveling system where you'll go through a starting zone to level 10 then you just pick where you want to level, whether it's BC, WotLK, Cataclysm, MoP, WoD, Legion or BfA and you'll level up there from 10 to 50 then jump into Shadowlands.

I'm actually wondering if this could be a huge move for every expansion going forward.

Specifically come 10.0 and beyond could this system be used to keep things limited in on something similar to a maintenance cycle.

I can see them using it one of two ways.

First way; 10.0 is announced. They say that they'll be level squishing JUST Shadowlands and item squishing Shadowlands as well so that now it's pure leveling content and you'll now level from 10 to 50 in Shadowlands if you want. All of our end-stats for current players being squished down to where they were at the end of BfA.

Second way; they just repeat what they've done now. We get three or four expansions in, then they just level and stat squish everything and turn all prior expansions into 10-50 leveling content.

I think that will be the new standard moving forward, it makes sense rather than letting it build up again and having the same issues again. as for the stat squish, I don't know when we will get another one as the dps increase hasn't inflated too much this expac, especially when you consider past expansions. health has increased quite a bit but that is a seperate issue - the original reason for the stat squish was because health pools for bosses was too big - but if you keep the dps to a reasonable standard then you don't need to squish too often

[Ielenia]

No, but byproducts shouldn't be ignored either. Of course, there are acceptable detriments, I wouldn't count this one among them, speaking for myself.

Not saying they should, but saying "item/character level squishes incur a loss of power" as if it's the intended effect of the feature is wrong.

[MrLachyG]

Those who understand what the level and item level squish are ok with it. Those who think it's a loss of power do not like the idea.


There was zero loss of power. Adding new levels to grind is not subtracting power. When a new expansion hits, you can still fight the raid bosses at your current level just as hard or easily as you could before the new expansion went live.

A "loss of power" from a level squish, for example, is if, after the "level squish" I lost access to abilities that require a level above 50, for example, or could not equip my current gear that requires a level higher than the one I was "squished" to.

Yeah but the people who think that a level squish is a loss of power also have difficulty dressing themselves so I’m not too worried about them

[jzhbee]

the world revamp already happened, it was cataclysm and it was a disaster that resulted in player's interest to drop from a level never to be seen again. the more revamps, the less players there will be, the less money they'll make. they learned it the hard way. remember this: the team CHANGED. try to preserve what you like, or you will lose everything.

As everytime this is brought up, NOBODY CITES THE WORLD REVAMP AS THE REASON WHY PLAYERS QUIT.
As somebody who played during TBC, WoTLK, Cata, and onwards, I only heard people praising it, because the vanilla content was outdated by MMO standards.
It was TURNING OFF NEW PLAYERS.

Cata had a lot wrong with it in the eyes of many. But the world revamp is not one of them.

If I was in the current year, playing retail WoW with Vanilla leveling, for the nth time, I would shoot myself. And I have 3 level 60s on Classic.

- - - Updated - - -

What WoW needs imho are actually BOLD changes, like REMOVING specs that nobody plays

...
???
There's no spec that nobody plays. I understand you're being figurative, but pray tell me, what's on the chopping block? Sub rogue?
Surv hunter?

A large amount of the playerbase isn't a fan of these specs, but I still know people who play them religiously. Why are you suggesting changes that essentially boil down to "fuck 'em"?

Why does them existing hurt the game?

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

...
???
There's no spec that nobody plays. I understand you're being figurative, but pray tell me, what's on the chopping block? Sub rogue?
Surv hunter?

A large amount of the playerbase isn't a fan of these specs, but I still know people who play them religiously. Why are you suggesting changes that essentially boil down to "fuck 'em"?

Why does them existing hurt the game?

I'll wager they mean "condense all classes down to one spec like it USED to be."

Despite how it never was like that.

[jzhbee]

I'll wager they mean "condense all classes down to one spec like it USED to be."

Despite how it never was like that.

I never understand why people have this stance, too.

Classic is OUT. Yes, as a frost mage, you can cast Fireball. But you won't, unless the enemy is fully resistant to Frost.

Other "spec abilities" were not spec specific. Sure, Heroic Strike is labeled as Arms, but you've got no other filler as Fury except Bloodthirst and Whirlwind, so you dump excess rage sometimes with Heroic Strike.

The closest to the "playing a class, not a spec" thing you got was Druid, and that was because all Druid forms were equally useless. (exaggeration, OOMkin is really funny to me)

I prefer the game when I can swap between 2-4 specs and have my character feel meaningfully different.

Some specs are not in a good place atm, I can concede to that. But I'm hoping for all our sakes that Blizzard isn't deaf, and does have changes planned for a good amount of specs. I don't want entire reworks, but at least give some quality of fun to the specs that are problematic.

And please, for the love of God, revert the GCD change.

[Wolfrick]

I think players (me included) want some progression in what they're doing, so I hope they repeat the cycle with 10.0 featuring 70 as max level. Why? Mates, do you want to stay blocked at 50-60 every time a new expansion comes? Don't know how that would work with the new leveling system in Shadowlands, but for me it would be weird if my character doesn't progress somehow (some tangible thing apart from achievements). If it just go reset each time an expansion end, it would feel repetitive, monotonous. What do you think on this matter?

About world revamp, it seems that Blizzard is doing it just partially and so selective, for example Silithus because Big Sword, Darkshore/Arathi because Faction War, and so on. Maybe it's a new method of recycling old zones. Or maybe they will proceed as stated by Slowpoke is a Gamer, with partial revamp, redoing Northrend, for example.

All of EK, Kalimdor, Northrend and Pandaria in one expansion? Don't think so.

I understand your point on leveling and wanting to push forward... but it alienetes new players and in the end it was just an old system that had not the possability to push people around and squish levels down, so now that we are in the future it would be very healthy for the game that each new expansion we get down to 50 and leveling is from 50 to 60.

When it comes to progression you got gear, cosmetics and way more stuff, we could even get Player housing.... that could give each player endless progression with furniture.... trophis and other stuff... (exsample, look up Elder scrolls online Player housing.... no Garrison bull shit)

I have so many friends that want to start playhing wow.... but 120 levels sounds insane, I know us veteran players don't care if it level 200+ but in all for the game, its a 100 time healthyer to have a cap on max level at 60

it works fine in vanilla and it worked fin in 2020 ^^

- - - Updated - - -

the world revamp already happened, it was cataclysm and it was a disaster that resulted in player's interest to drop from a level never to be seen again. the more revamps, the less players there will be, the less money they'll make. they learned it the hard way. remember this: the team CHANGED. try to preserve what you like, or you will lose everything.

This is such an ignorant statemant... if you have no clue what you talking about, just keep quiet or you just make a fool of your self!

1st: Cataclysmen was an amazing expansion idea... Blizzard just had no clue how big of a work load it would give their small team.

2nd: Today their work team is 10 times bigger and more experianced... so we can use the past to make the future better (that means a better revemp)

3rd: they had some amazing ideas... for cataclysm, but they had to scrap alot of them since they had to revemp the entire world (In Cataclysm we got 3 contients of work and content... its just that they had a way to small team to work on such a huge project

4rd: with the Tecnologies and systems they have today a Revamp would make the entire world "kalimdor and easternkindomes + northrend" 10 times better and blizzard could reuse the world was much as they want, since the grapics and sysetems are up to date, as you see now days they kinda have a hard time reusing the old world... that forces them to stay inside the "new content" and that just hurts the game long time.

5th: after Wrath of the Lich King.... most players have played a game for over 6 or more years... so people grow up or get just board of playing the same game or feel done with the story... that also had alot to do with the sub losses if you ad that to a compleet unfinished or super rushed expanion you get whta happend in Cataclysm...

6th: bacause of the reasons over this point so many people just blame Revamp.... since people love to point the finger and clame they know stuff that they have no idea about... but they its just Human ignorance and that is just how the world works, so I udnerstand you, but in the future keep quiet and you will look smarter

[Holdodlig]

I'm gonna put my clown shoes on again and say world revamp 10.0. For sure this time.

The changes for Shadowlands is a total band-aid. At some point Blizz either needs to give us a proper introduction experience again, or just kill leveling altogether.





Bit less clowney, but I do think that they're going to do something with talents in 10.0. I'm not gonna say talent trees return but I'm sure as hell gonna imply it. Like I don't see how Blizz can leave talents as they are now, which is utterly uninteresting and broken to boot.

Agreed. I was honestly thinking that world revamp would happens in 9.0 but 10.0 makes more sense as we'll probably have something major happening at the end of Shadowlands. Maybe we'll stay trapped here lorewise for years and we'll come back in a totally changed Azeroth ?

I think that's something they want to make since Legion, at the moment they've started to redo all the old models. There's also a few things that still don't make sense like the new Uther tomb.

[Jetstream]

My thought was that they could have a decoupled level system, tied to each expansion.

Like say the best expansion is WoW Floofydoo. You’d start at level 60, then you’d gain a level of Floofydoo. And that can be as many arbitrary levels as they’d like. Then when the next expansion drops, it can fall into the 10-50 or 10-60 area and you gain Flubbertygibbet levels.

[Cæli]

This is such an ignorant statemant... if you have no clue what you talking about, just keep quiet or you just make a fool of your self!

1st: Cataclysmen was an amazing expansion idea... Blizzard just had no clue how big of a work load it would give their small team.

2nd: Today their work team is 10 times bigger and more experianced... so we can use the past to make the future better (that means a better revemp)

3rd: they had some amazing ideas... for cataclysm, but they had to scrap alot of them since they had to revemp the entire world (In Cataclysm we got 3 contients of work and content... its just that they had a way to small team to work on such a huge project

4rd: with the Tecnologies and systems they have today a Revamp would make the entire world "kalimdor and easternkindomes + northrend" 10 times better and blizzard could reuse the world was much as they want, since the grapics and sysetems are up to date, as you see now days they kinda have a hard time reusing the old world... that forces them to stay inside the "new content" and that just hurts the game long time.

5th: after Wrath of the Lich King.... most players have played a game for over 6 or more years... so people grow up or get just board of playing the same game or feel done with the story... that also had alot to do with the sub losses if you ad that to a compleet unfinished or super rushed expanion you get whta happend in Cataclysm...

6th: bacause of the reasons over this point so many people just blame Revamp.... since people love to point the finger and clame they know stuff that they have no idea about... but they its just Human ignorance and that is just how the world works, so I udnerstand you, but in the future keep quiet and you will look smarter

it was a bait and you took it ahah! but still opinions are not facts even if you would love for your opinions to be real! fact is the team is different, the art is different, so a revamp could go against preservation, and many people don't realize that they like something before it's gone!