Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[PosPosPos]

Here's a top GOP/Trump adviser saying they "typically rely on voter suppression" to win elections.



I guess we're seeing everything we knew about the GOP confirmed in this presidential election cycle (2016-2020). Some of the worst people on earth populate the highest echelons of the GOP, and everyone now knows it, and continues to back the party of racism, hate, and anti-democracy.

Conservatives are proud of their cognitive dissonance between voting for Nazis, Fascists, dictators and criminals, while somehow not supporting the ideologies of said Nazis, Fascists, dictators and criminals.

There is no argument, logical or emotional, that can dissolve such a special and unique way of not-thinking.

[Dontrike]

Here's a top GOP/Trump adviser saying they "typically rely on voter suppression" to win elections.



I guess we're seeing everything we knew about the GOP confirmed in this presidential election cycle (2016-2020). Some of the worst people on earth populate the highest echelons of the GOP, and everyone now knows it, and continues to back the party of racism, hate, and anti-democracy.

When you hear someone admit they can't win without cheating. I can't wait to bring this up each time someone goes "The dems are corrupt too!"

[telygroar]

Germany is to blame for that

And why ? oO
There is no legal basis for this one... In that case, could europe does sanction for US doing business with saoudi arabia ?

[Acidbaron]

And why ? oO
There is no legal basis for this one... In that case, could europe does sanction for US doing business with saoudi arabia ?

The pipeline is controversial in Europe and France opposed it and how it would be controlled for a time, till compromises were met. The argument is that it would increases Europe's dependence on Russian gas, however there is already a pipeline and this one is being build next to the existing one.

That being said America putting sanctions on EU countries for political reasons isn't going to achieve anything but even closer relations with Russia.

However i don't agree that Germany is to blame, this was an European matter this was discussed and debated on an EU level, the criticism or excuses the US is using to apply these sanctions has a voice on EU level. So the US is doing this for other reasons and knowing the toddler level of maturity of that US administration it could be something as childish as decrease dependency on the US regards to energy. (Here's a wild idea maybe stop gathering more gas and oil than you need instead of trying to maximize profits?)

And on the other hand he is defending Putin, so maybe Trump is after all just a senile old boomer.

[Breccia]

That being said America putting sanctions on EU countries for political reasons isn't going to achieve anything but even closer relations with Russia.

Just so we're clear: closer relations between the EU and Russia?

[Acidbaron]

Just so we're clear: closer relations between the EU and Russia?

On the economic level? yes.

[Skroe]

On the economic level? yes.

I mean the default assumption for the past 70 years is that Europeans, especially Germans, could be bought.

The pipeline topic has been around since 2008, and while Europe on one hand spent years and considerable effort creating alternatives to Russian gas, it then turns around and does stuff like Nord Stream 2. It's quite clear that not every part of Europe and even within the governments therein, are working on the same team. Of course equally nonsensical is Germany's phased elimination of nuclear power (of which Siemens was a major industrial producer of until it too quit) in order to rely on more LNG.

The United States has been in the right about Nord Stream since the beginning and we're entirely right about every action we've taken to frustrate Russian pipeline building efforts (most efforts of which haven been very successful on our part). Russia is an enemy of the United States, European Union and NATO. We use couch language like "adversary" and "competitor" in order to not fully remilitarize the borderlands (that is coming) but in the security and geopolitical context, Russia is not anybody's friend.

The problem? Americans love money. And Europeans love money too. So while we've been engaging on harlotry with China (that we're weaning ourselves off of), Europe has been engaged in gross harlotry with Russia.

Nord Stream 2 goes in the opposite direction Europe should be going in and all we've ever got is rationalizations about why it should happen. No rationalization supercedes the fact that putting resources (money) in the hands of your enemy is a pretty stupid thing.

The US worked hard to strangle South Stream in its crib. It couldn't stop Nord Stream but Nord Stream 2 is all but dead.

But seriously, Europe needs to stop this shit with Russia. Engagement won't change their behavior. Paying Putin's people won't change their behavior. You're either with the US in teaching Russia the meaning of consequences by breaking Russia's back and leaving them a destitute crippled state that is dependent on charity, or you're not. No more of this middle ground nonsense. It was amusing in the 2000s. It was annoying in the 2010s. It's not going to be tolerated in the 2020s, especially once Democrats retake the White House and the entire political establishment of the US Government is finally united in trying to avenge ourselves upon Russia for their actions since 2015.

[Shalcker]

The pipeline topic has been around since 2008, and while Europe on one hand spent years and considerable effort creating alternatives to Russian gas, it then turns around and does stuff like Nord Stream 2. It's quite clear that not every part of Europe and even within the governments therein, are working on the same team. Of course equally nonsensical is Germany's phased elimination of nuclear power (of which Siemens was a major industrial producer of until it too quit) in order to rely on more LNG.

What a joke.

Pipeline topic has been around since 60s. And it continued during 1990s as well.

Built with European money - and often with European pipes too.

And old USSR certainly was much bigger adversary to Western EU then modern Russia; trying to say "this time it's worse!" rings hollow.

But seriously, Europe needs to stop this shit with Russia. Engagement won't change their behavior. Paying Putin's people won't change their behavior. You're either with the US in teaching Russia the meaning of consequences by breaking Russia's back and leaving them a destitute crippled state that is dependent on charity, or you're not. No more of this middle ground nonsense. It was amusing in the 2000s. It was annoying in the 2010s. It's not going to be tolerated in the 2020s, especially once Democrats retake the White House and the entire political establishment of the US Government is finally united in trying to avenge ourselves upon Russia for their actions since 2015.

Or perhaps Europe should stop playing second fiddle to US interests and protect their own - especially when US "principled" opposition is marred by their own self-interest with LNG (and given that US forcing Bulgarian hand on cancelling South Stream and suffering multi-billion penalties never actually paid off for them with anything significant from US side).

[Xarkan]

What a joke.

Pipeline topic has been around since 60s. And it continued during 1990s as well.

Built with European money - and often with European pipes too.

And old USSR certainly was much bigger adversary to Western EU then modern Russia; trying to say "this time it's worse!" rings hollow.

Or perhaps Europe should stop playing second fiddle to US interests and protect their own - especially when US "principled" opposition is marred by their own self-interest with LNG (and given that US forcing Bulgarian hand on cancelling South Stream and suffering multi-billion penalties never actually paid off for them with anything significant from US side).

Or perhaps we should buy from neither party and instead go for alternative (wind/solar) and nuclear as far as we can

[Paranoid Android]

Real estate broker taps Vanilla Ice to pitch Trump family on putting presidential library on site of trailer park: report https://t.co/F6t9EENNBp https://t.co/II9g1YMaSl

https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1...814520832?s=19

Shall I say more?

Trump's friend Vanilla Ice? Sure.

Presidential Library on a trailer park? Hey, not gonna knock people who live there, but I can't say the same for Trump.

[Skroe]

What a joke.

Pipeline topic has been around since 60s. And it continued during 1990s as well.

Built with European money - and often with European pipes too.

And old USSR certainly was much bigger adversary to Western EU then modern Russia; trying to say "this time it's worse!" rings hollow.

I'm referring to specifically the US pushing Europe (and Europe deciding) to cut Russian leverage over them by building new pipelines.

Which has largely succeeded in forestalling new pipeline building and new construction but is perennially threatened by a new pipeline scheme. Europe needs to buy from The United States, Africa and the Middle East, and cut off Russia.

Or perhaps Europe should stop playing second fiddle to US interests and protect their own - especially when US "principled" opposition is marred by their own self-interest with LNG (and given that US forcing Bulgarian hand on cancelling South Stream and suffering multi-billion penalties never actually paid off for them with anything significant from US side).

Europe and American interests are one and the same when it comes to liberty, democracy and other concepts entirely foreign to you and your authoritarian ilk. Europe has already made its choice. The problem is the, again, perennial temptation for easy money and easy energy, that Russia always tries to lure them with. The US and America don't always agree. And sometypes deliver hard slaps to each other. But 75 years and generations of leaders have have created a working relationship that sustains disagreements and comes to consenses over time. Witness the Huawei concern. The EU was ready to let them in. And now they are not. After fierce lobbying on our side, we've won the argument and now the policy is being shaped.

In the end, we just think more of Europeans than the Russians do. Russians think all of Europe can be bought with their oil and gas. They think they're for sale. We think they are tempted by it (and like us, have bad eggs here and there) but are generally better than that and largely guided by their principles, which we share. We think where we disagree, we can work with them towards a unified position.

That is why they are our ally and your adversary. Because we're brothers and sisters. We are family. Families sometimes fight (and feircly!) but they're bound by more than just a transnational relationship. And you're their rather violent and brutal neighbor. Remember the pull out from the INF Treaty - something Europe blamed squarely on Russia... they know first hand the stuff we've talked about. They know that the only reason for there to be Intermediate Range weapons in Russia's arsenal is for Russia to target Europe, since the US is too far away (and the US is really only interested in intermediate range weapons in Asia, since our submarines and destroyers can hit Russia from Intermediate ranges anyway). They know your scheme: bribe them and hold a gun to their head.

Never forget. America stayed in Europe after World War II to protect Europe and the free world from you. In that, we won. And now we're doing it again. They know. We know. You lost a very long time ago. You will always lose.

We'll win this time too. The free world is far stronger than the world of subjugation that you are a part of. And I'll just say it again, you better hope Trump has some kind of clone device that could extend his election beyond a hypothetical 2024, because the day is fast approaching where we'll be coming for all of you. Democrats will never forget 2016. Republicans have never found an anti-Russian military and economic program they didn't support. And Anti-Authoritarian Conservatives like me want justice for what you people did. And believe me... we'll get it and then some.

[Xarkan]

Europe and American interests are one and the same when it comes to liberty, democracy and other concepts entirely foreign to you and your authoritarian ilk. Europe has already made its choice. The problem is the, again, perennial temptation for easy money and easy energy, that Russia always tries to lure them with. The US and America don't always agree. And sometypes deliver hard slaps to each other. But 75 years and generations of leaders have have created a working relationship that sustains disagreements and comes to consenses over time. Witness the Huawei concern. The EU was ready to let them in. And now they are not. After fierce lobbying on our side, we've won the argument and now the policy is being shaped.

Well if Huawei wanted to get a foot in maybe China should not risked looking like they threatened the Faroe Islands on trade to get Huawei in on 5G there, it is not a good look on China

That may actually be a more important event than US lobying..

[Skroe]

Well if Huawei wanted to get a foot in maybe China should not risked looking like they threatened the Faroe Islands on trade to get Huawei in on 5G there, it is not a good look on China

That may actually be a more important event than US lobying..

Oh I mean, this would be far from the first time China got in its own way as well.

They've basically squandered the Donald Trump is a weapon's grade imbecile reprieve by scaring the hell out of all their neighbors.

One of the United States' greatest accomplices is our adversary's incompetence.

[Shalcker]

I'm referring to specifically the US pushing Europe (and Europe deciding) to cut Russian leverage over them by building new pipelines.

It's two-way leverage.

Nothing stops Europeans from saying "not going to buy that pipeline gas any more" at any moment - it's not like Russia can force them even if pipeline is there (and even long-term contracts can be violated in right conditions - like that whole Third Energy Package).

But 75 years and generations of leaders have have created a working relationship that sustains disagreements and comes to consenses over time.

The thing is, Europe has working relationship with USSR/Russia too. Of which pipelines are one of key points.

Despite various disagreements it can be continued soon enough.

In the end, we just think more of Europeans than the Russians do. Russians think all of Europe can be bought with their oil and gas. They think they're for sale. We think they are tempted by it (and like us, have bad eggs here and there) but are generally better than that and largely guided by their principles, which we share. We think where we disagree, we can work with them towards a unified position.

Unlike you, Europe seems to think unstable Russia right on their doorstep would be huge hassle.

And so it's cheaper for them to pay for gas to keep it in serviceable condition.

We'll win this time too. The free world is far stronger than the world of subjugation that you are a part of. And I'll just say it again, you better hope Trump has some kind of clone device that could extend his election beyond a hypothetical 2024, because the day is fast approaching where we'll be coming for all of you. Democrats will never forget 2016. Republicans have never found an anti-Russian military and economic program they didn't support. And Anti-Authoritarian Conservatives like me want justice for what you people did. And believe me... we'll get it and then some.

Nope, that time of reckoning is never coming.

Your understanding of Russian weaknesses in "sanctions" is quite lacking, so, even with someone more competent in White House more significant damage is not going to happen. Your tools are being worked around, and by that moment every system to avoid their brunt will be in place.

[zealo]

Well if Huawei wanted to get a foot in maybe China should not risked looking like they threatened the Faroe Islands on trade to get Huawei in on 5G there, it is not a good look on China

That may actually be a more important event than US lobying..

Europe should just go with domestic providers anyway for the rollout of 5G.

There's not any good reason not to involve some European company such as Ericsson or Nokia on that, rather than letting China in on critical infrastructure projects.

[Shalcker]

Or perhaps we should buy from neither party and instead go for alternative (wind/solar) and nuclear as far as we can

Nothing stops you from closing the pipes and not buying any the moment you do.

[Skulltaker]

It's two-way leverage.

Nothing stops Europeans from saying "not going to buy that pipeline gas any more" at any moment - it's not like Russia can force them even if pipeline is there (and even long-term contracts can be violated in right conditions - like that whole Third Energy Package).

Except for the fact that we need the gas, especially in winter times, to heat our homes.

[Skroe]

Or perhaps we should buy from neither party and instead go for alternative (wind/solar) and nuclear as far as we can

You know, I'm going to say again, you can tell how serious people / someone is about climate change, on the basis of their opinion of nuclear.

This is why I don't take Bernie Sanders seriously as a candidate and never, ever will. This is why I think he is not sincere in anything he says.
https://feelthebern.org/bernie-sande...nuclear-energy

Ban Nuclear Energy Expansion
Bernie has called for a moratorium on nuclear power plant license renewals in the United States.

What is Bernie’s view on nuclear energy?
Bernie believes that we “must stop building new nuclear power plants, and find a real solution to our existing nuclear waste problem.”

He believes that solar, wind, geothermal power, and energy efficiency are more cost-effective than nuclear plants, and that the toxic waste byproducts of nuclear plants are not worth the risks of the technology’s benefit.

Ever the financial watchdog, Bernie has also questioned why the federal government invests billions into federal subsidies for the nuclear industry. Bernie is especially concerned about this because nuclear power companies are exploiting loopholes in green-power incentives to expand their billion dollar industry. The recent push to increase the production of nuclear energy follows the heavy investment by billionaires in the nuclear industry.

In 2019, Bernie voiced his opposition to storing nuclear waste in Yucca Mountain, calling it a “disaster.”

Let's be clear: not just not building new nuclear power plants, but not extending the licences of existing ones.

Think about that for a moment.

And what replaces nuclear power plants almost every time one goes off line? Liquefied Natural Gas. LNG is far cleaner than coal, but still emits a considerable amount of Carbon Dioxide (about half as much as coal per Btu), as opposed to basically zero with a nuclear power plant.

Bernie Sanders is drawing from old 1970s and 1980s anti-nuclear liberal crap. He's cool with wind and solar.

Seriously, the guy's a clown. Caught between the existence of life on Earth as we know it being threatened by carbon emissions, and the reality of our population's ongoing energy requirements, he decides to be so picky as to not even reauthorize what is already up and running and emits zero carbon.

Yeah. Fuck 'em. Non-serious person. Non-serious energy policy. Non-serious candidate.

[PC2]

Seriously, the guy's a clown. Caught between the existence of life on Earth as we know it being threatened by carbon emissions, and the reality of our population's ongoing energy requirements, he decides to be so picky as to not even reauthorize what is already up and running and emits zero carbon.

That claim isn't based on anything though. Even if we burned all known fossil fuel reserves plus double for the amount that could be discovered there's still no reason to think the existence of life on Earth as we know it would be threatened.

[Skroe]

That claim isn't based on anything though. Even if we burned all known fossil fuel reserves plus double for the amount that could be discovered there's still no reason to think the existence of life on Earth would be threatened.

You left out four words in the bolded part that offer an essential context to what I said.

We can have a discussion on this topic when in your next reply you point out to me what they are.

Really. I just want four words from you. Go fetch.