How Long Until Pay To Win Happens?

[iinverse]

man, I thought it was understood that those who have no money to pay Rusheos, will always have worse equipment, therefore, less chance of being accepted in partys to make content, ahem, ahead of curve, etc ...

I didnt pay boosters ever and have better gear/progress/performance than you.

they re not selling items for money,but they re selling gold for money,and with this gold you buy items hight item lvl in ah and pay russhes that give you better gear,so,please YES IS PAY TO WIN actually.people ,u have brain or not....?

I said it many times and will do it again: GEAR IS THE LEAST FACTOR OF YOUR PERFORMANCE IN PVE OR PVP.
Shitty player pay, shitty players get gear and shitty players still have worst performance. How is it pay 2 win if they cannot win even with better gear?

Pay 2 win is when you pay money and DESTROY other non-paying players (by dps or in pvp etc). When you pay for boost and still do shitty dps after that even with gear - its not p2w.

Besides, buyers can easily be detected in raids/parties - they have good gear, but shitty dps/hps.

[lollerlaban]

yes,it is pay to win,"i buy gold with money,i pay some rushes m+,raid hc,i buy some good items in ah,i buy food and flasks....ehm...and "you" that havent money for all this things,just do the content....who will be better geared?xd...this is pay to win man

i have heard,that in shadowlands,you can buy in the store the flying power,for can fly in start.+1

You're winning nothing. All you're doing right now is raving like a 10 year old kid spamming keys on his keyboard.

[Beastiel]

Your "argument" basically means that pretty much every MMO is pay to win, because you can always find someone willing to "help you out", be it for money or other reasons. You conveniently "forget" to mention that none of these transactions are officialy endorsed by Blizzard and are all down to players. .

the transaction that i pay money and get gold is endorsed by blizzard. Nothing else needs to be. Of course players are going to do things like start carrying services in an MMO. Blizzard did not have to put a buttery smooth way to pay money and receive currency but they did. Because this game is at worst pay to win and at best a subscription based game with a free to play model.

or other reasons

"other reasons" is not the same thing as money. Getting carried by real life friends is not the same thing as paying currency. It is not relevant to the conversation.

Pay 2 win is when you pay money and DESTROY other non-paying players (by dps or in pvp etc). When you pay for boost and still do shitty dps after that even with gear - its not p2w.

Nonsense. Stop with the imaginary goalposts.

[niztheundead87]

the transaction that i pay money and get gold is endorsed by blizzard. Nothing else needs to be. Of course players are going to do things like start carrying services in an MMO. Blizzard did not have to put a buttery smooth way to pay money and receive currency but they did. Because this game is at worst pay to win and at best a subscription based game with a free to play model.


"other reasons" is not the same thing as money. Getting carried by real life friends is not the same thing as paying currency. It is not relevant to the conversation.



Nonsense. Stop with the imaginary goalposts.

The only nonsense here comes from you and all the other parroting idiots.

P2w=you gain a big advantage on non paying people plain and simple

[Capultro]

"I didnt pay boosters ever and have better gear/progress/performance than you."

I think you do not know what you are talking about, it seems that you do not know how a rush works, you take your loot, and that of others that also serves you,for that you pay.so,all raid loot vs ur loot,1 loot....so,no,u never will have better gear,/progress than 1 that pay rushes every week.yes there are people with loot of money for buy gold xd...

"I said it many times and will do it again: GEAR IS THE LEAST FACTOR OF YOUR PERFORMANCE IN PVE OR PVP.
Shitty player pay, shitty players get gear and shitty players still have worst performance. How is it pay 2 win if they cannot win even with better gear?"

you don't believe this


"Pay 2 win is when you pay money and DESTROY other non-paying players (by dps or in pvp etc). When you pay for boost and still do shitty dps after that even with gear - its not p2w."

py to win,is this,buy gold,for have flasks,food,get extra gear,do extra content that normaly u cant do,etc,at the end,you are with very good gear,rare mounts mithic..etc things that YOU,if have money for rushes,you never will have,no in this patch,just poor that you go slower, not because you can not. Maybe you get it if you are a good player and you are lucky, but if in the groups they do not catch you in the normal way if you do not have the achievement of hc, you will tell me, in what group you are going to enter, then you will need a guild of trust, and that does not abound ... and even if you had it, you would still be slower, than that player who pays rushes, and has: better team, has money for everything, and on top of that he has that mithic mount that everyone wants and that few have ... all because he has money.With money you get everything in this world, including women, everything.Money is money.

"Besides, buyers can easily be detected in raids/parties - they have good gear, but shitty dps/hps."

you don't believe this xdd.a player with better gear,and bad rotation,is better than u xdddd,gear,is GEAR item lvl...stats....is the most important thing...
u seem new...xdd

[iinverse]

I think you do not know what you are talking about, it seems that you do not know how a rush works, you take your loot, and that of others that also serves you,for that you pay.so,all raid loot vs ur loot,1 loot....so,no,u never will have better gear,/progress than 1 that pay rushes every week.yes there are people with loot of money for buy gold xd...

I know how it works, but still I have better gear/progress.
Simple because gear is just a mere tool. If you can't use it right, its useless.
Fucking up a rotation bring a much more performance drop than any gear can compensate.
And all buyers have shitty rotations, didnt know the fight, how and when to burst, where to avoid damage and dies every fucking fight till kickin out of raid group.

you don't believe this

Seems that you don't know how things work in this game.

py to win,is this,buy gold,for have flasks,food,get extra gear,

lol. Everyone can have enough gold for flasks and food simple doing emissary chests every 3 days. Free of charge.

do extra content that normaly u cant do

Which content you can do that cna't be done by normal player?

at the end,you are with very good gear,rare mounts mithic..

At the end you can buy gear but cant buy skill, so you will be shittiest player in the group.

tc things that YOU,if have money for rushes,you never will have,no in this patch,just poor that you go slower, not because you can not.

This xpac you get gear literally from nowhere.

Maybe you get it if you are a good player and you are lucky, but if in the groups they do not catch you in the normal way if you do not have the achievement of hc,

I usually get my first weekly cache from patch at mythic release week, and curve in next couple of weeks.
When you with all your gold cant buy boosts because all carry guilds still doing their progress.

you don't believe this xdd.a player with better gear,and bad rotation,is better than u xdddd

Nope, better gear and stats can be easily fucked by bad performance. And all buyers have bad performance, because if your performance is good, you easy run keys and raids by yourself without needing of a carry team.

,gear,is GEAR item lvl...stats....is the most important thing...

Skill is the most important thing.

u seem new...xdd

Its you seems new to this game.
Try to learn the difference on obvious examples here: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/

[Very Tired]

Seems people are having trouble grasping what pay 2 win actually is. It's literally paying real money and gaining ANY advantage over other players. It doesn't matter how little or small the advantage is, that's just the scale of it. A game is still pay 2 win regardless of it being selling tokens to never have to worry about armor repair costs, or something larger like buying boosts. And it doesn't matter if they buy gear and continue to suck at the game. It's still pay 2 win.

[spalernTJ]

they re not selling items for money,but they re selling gold for money,and with this gold you buy items hight item lvl in ah and pay russhes that give you better gear,so,please YES IS PAY TO WIN actually.people ,u have brain or not....?it is easy,if u want i explain it again.wow is pay to win,i know people with money that always pays rushes and have great gear,rushes are nice....m+,hc raid....

With this type of mentality, wow has always been pay to win. From the very beginning. All Blizzard did with the addition of the WoW tokens, was making illegal gold selling less lucrative, which were the cause of a lot of problematic issues with hacked accounts and sketchy use of credit cards. If indirect pay to win is the only option, then I welcome it with open arms.

I will not consider the WoW tokens pay to win with that in mind. The ones who are making the game pay to win, are the people selling services for gold.

[Spiffums]

As stated in Title. How long now until they offer official Box gear boost or the likes? "For 19.99 Get 450 Raid ready items" You need flask? For 5.99 get 200!

I for one hope it does not but if it does how far out do you think we are from this reality.

I'm herb/alchy on 3 of my 4 major toons........and even I perked up at that. For less than $20 I can get the majority of my game life back! LOL

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People already say its P2W because "YoU CaN BUy BoOSts iN MytHICs!!!111".

I for one dont think they will ever have p2w since it would ruin their whole model completely.

So... short answer. Never!

I'm in the "buying for boosts in keys/raids is pay to win" camp. If you can buy Ahead of the Curve, which most pug raids want, or a 1k raider IO score, which most pugs want, then you are "paying to win".

[Mysterymask]

How many people do yall know that is like buying tokens like candy....
I mean do any of yall know someone that dropped $500 so they can get the brutosaur cause amg its going away!....

Cause yeah

[therealstegblob]

Supposedly that's the reason the Longboi's moving to the BMAH, to fOrCe people to buy tokens...

It's not. You'd have to spend an absolutely ridiculous amount of money to buy enough tokens to purchase it. Even if you're just a scant 1 million gold away, it'd cost near or in excess of over 100 dollars.

The real reason the mount is being semi-discontinued is so it forces people to get on, resub to the game, and then relentlessly gold farm so they can try to buy the mount before it's gone. It's a player retention tactic. Not one designed to push tokens.

[Kiwijello]

Been playing WoW for 15 years and STILL have not won it. How do you win WoW?

[iinverse]

Seems people are having trouble grasping what pay 2 win actually is. It's literally paying real money and gaining ANY advantage over other players.

In this case absolutely all MMOs are p2w.

[Triginhil]

WoW is the oldest game thats not P2W. Spending in-game currency for in-game services is totally legit and not be considered PW2, because if by that logic, then repairing your gear or buying anything off the AH could be considered P2W.

[Eldar45]

So you are saying it's not pay 2 win mechanic if person "A" spends 1000€/$ for tokens and clean AH from BoE gear and buys boosts tru mythic +15 and highest current tier raid with all loot for himself. While player "B" spends entire expansion to get somewhat close him in gear and power by playing every day 5h+ to be able to stay competent and be invited for other endgame activities. And then those "C" players who have alt or 2 have to do crazy amounts extra work because the game gearing system is so damn RNG nowadays while player "A+" spends 3000€/$ to get alts geared instantly too.

Stop with the argument about "YoU CaN't BuY aNyThInG tHaT iSn'T aLrEaDy In ThE gAmE". You are literally buying power with real money even if it's items that are in the game for everyone to obtain by RNG/hard work.

Which is called PAY TO WIN and WoW is PAY TO WIN game nowadays.

You aren't buying power that is greater than what is available. There isn't a single BoE in the game that is better than just going to Nazjatar and grinding up Benthic gear. So you aren't paying to win, as you haven't won until you've gotten as powerful as possible.

[re1gn1te]

As stated in Title. How long now until they offer official Box gear boost or the likes? "For 19.99 Get 450 Raid ready items" You need flask? For 5.99 get 200!

I for one hope it does not but if it does how far out do you think we are from this reality.

? Pay to win is in the game. Buy gold give gold to good players receive gear / acheivments / mounts / pets etc. You can buy everything.

[iinverse]

? Pay to win is in the game. Buy gold give gold to good players receive gear / acheivments / mounts / pets etc. You can buy everything.

You can't buy skill. So skilled players will always win you.

[Tumile]

P2W has always meant exclusive power. You spent real money to get power items that gave you specific advantages over those that did not spend money.

You do not seem to understand what a microtransaction is. WoW does not have microtransactions. They have macrotransactions. They are designed to be purchased once(outside of the token which is a way to curb the shady gold selling from, and to stop gold farmers and their shady practices. And in now way are they abusive. If they were they would not be account shared, requiring you to purchase them for every character you wanted to use them on. Not to mention they only ad on average 1.3 pets and 1.3 mounts to the store per year since it came out. I get not liking it, but it isn't abusive.

Also, do you post in the FF14 thread complaining about their store in a P2P game with heavily pushed MTXs? I just want to make sure you are consistent or just hating on Blizzard because reasons?

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Thanks, now I need off clean coffee off my keyboard.

You can buy literal ingame items, that is a Microtransaction. wow Tokens, mounts, Transmog sets, and Pets are all Microtransactions.

Your definition of P2W only exists in your own littel warped reality.

I don't give a shit about some random Casual no content actual roleplaying MMO.So Can't speak on the subject of Final Fantasy.

Also how do they only release 1.3 mounts per year? wat. do you want to double check that friendo?

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That is not pay to win. What you are describing is a twisting of logic to apply your own faulty reasoning.
P2W is paying real money that grants you an advantage over a non paying person. Buying a token with money for a carry does not give you an advantage over someone who doesn’t pay and does the same content. The clearest example of P2W is an item only being obtainable in a cash shop that increases player power more than anything in game.

Again, that is not the definition of P2W. you said it urself "grants you and advantage" Being able to skip X Hours of content in a grind is obviously P2W, what are you sniffing ma dude. Imagine being able to just "Buy" 20 extra hours compared to other Top 10 world guilds during Progress. some random casual who has to enter the mythic scene from a heroic scene, and put a metric fuck ton of hours into raiding, 9 hours a week, takes 2 months to even clear the content, then reclear it for X amount of weeks, in order to get the gear some guy had to buy 1-2 boosts for that he can buy for IRL money through Tokens? nah you're right, doesn't sound like an advantage. lol

[Krewshi]

Step 1: buy a lot of tokens
Step 2: sell em for gold
Step 3 : use the gold to get carried in everything
Step 4: You win

It is with your money alone (pay) that you used to win the game (win)

[apples]

Step 1: buy a lot of tokens
Step 2: sell em for gold
Step 3 : use the gold to get carried in everything
Step 4: You win

It is with your money alone (pay) that you used to win the game (win)

yaknow how much money youd have to spend to get hota? about $2000.

yaknow how much money youd have to spend to get mythic azshara? u cant.

yea sounds like youre really paying to win wow.