How Long Until Pay To Win Happens?

[Eapoe]

Give us a single other good reason why would they do that?
'Forcing' here is slightly wrong term... i would say... provoke...? or mby... stimulate...? or whatever other similar word.

To get people that are on the fence about buying it to actually do that. I’m doing so help bring economy down a bit.
To make way for another huge gold sink mount in the next xpac.
Their specific reasoning of not wanting to have them become common.
3 off the top of my head in under 30 seconds, but I guess being on the bandwagon with no real thoughts of your own while letting others shape your opinion on something is just easier.

[Beefhammer]

yaknow how much money youd have to spend to get hota? about $2000.

yaknow how much money youd have to spend to get mythic azshara? u cant.

yea sounds like youre really paying to win wow.

People just bitching to bitch not understanding anything.

[Eapoe]

You can buy literal ingame items, that is a Microtransaction. wow Tokens, mounts, Transmog sets, and Pets are all Microtransactions.

Your definition of P2W only exists in your own littel warped reality.

I don't give a shit about some random Casual no content actual roleplaying MMO.So Can't speak on the subject of Final Fantasy.

Also how do they only release 1.3 mounts per year? wat. do you want to double check that friendo?

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Again, that is not the definition of P2W. you said it urself "grants you and advantage" Being able to skip X Hours of content in a grind is obviously P2W, what are you sniffing ma dude. Imagine being able to just "Buy" 20 extra hours compared to other Top 10 world guilds during Progress. some random casual who has to enter the mythic scene from a heroic scene, and put a metric fuck ton of hours into raiding, 9 hours a week, takes 2 months to even clear the content, then reclear it for X amount of weeks, in order to get the gear some guy had to buy 1-2 boosts for that he can buy for IRL money through Tokens? nah you're right, doesn't sound like an advantage. lol

Quit twisting words. “Grants you an advantage over nonpaying players.” There is no advantage. Player A paying to get carried thru something has no advantage over Player B who does the same content without paying. As a matter of fact, the person paying is at a disadvantage since they are using gold, or real money to get gold, to get the same things that Player B has.

[Beefhammer]

You can buy literal ingame items, that is a Microtransaction. wow Tokens, mounts, Transmog sets, and Pets are all Microtransactions.

Your definition of P2W only exists in your own littel warped reality.

I don't give a shit about some random Casual no content actual roleplaying MMO.So Can't speak on the subject of Final Fantasy.

Also how do they only release 1.3 mounts per year? wat. do you want to double check that friendo?

10 years 13 mounts 1.3 per year. Math is hard.

[Appelgren]

I'm herb/alchy on 3 of my 4 major toons........and even I perked up at that. For less than $20 I can get the majority of my game life back! LOL

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I'm in the "buying for boosts in keys/raids is pay to win" camp. If you can buy Ahead of the Curve, which most pug raids want, or a 1k raider IO score, which most pugs want, then you are "paying to win".

Someone else is winning for you on your char. You are not doing any winning. Try getting those high end achievements yourself with your “p2w”-gear. You can’t. Hence no winning on your part

[sam86]

Seems people are having trouble grasping what pay 2 win actually is. It's literally paying real money and gaining ANY advantage over other players. It doesn't matter how little or small the advantage is, that's just the scale it. A game is still pay 2 win regardless of it being selling tokens to never have to worry about armor repair costs, or something larger like buying boosts. And it doesn't matter if they buy gear and continue to suck at the game. It's still pay 2 win.

thank you
i'm old enough to remember when gaming companies were paying us for beta, not the other way around

i bet they also don't see lootbox as gambling because it always give a 'reward', even if the guarantee reward is a virtual trash that no player even want, and they have to dig their head waaaaaaay up their butts to ignore the thousand of studies that show how lootboxes caused a massive increase in gambling addiction

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It's not. You'd have to spend an absolutely ridiculous amount of money to buy enough tokens to purchase it. Even if you're just a scant 1 million gold away, it'd cost near or in excess of over 100 dollars.

what reason did activision give u to not assume they are that greedy a88holes ? Bobby is literally the greediest american ceo in gaming history, (i think 2nd overall after the australian EA? not sure), and in top 10 worst gaming scandals in 2019, the evil ea had just 1 while blizz held the 10th and 3rd and 1st worst scandal in 2019
Is it far fetched yes, i'd never accused that pre-activision blizz, but right now the default should be to assume the worst before best, because they gave u many many many reasons to assume the worst from them first before the good news

[Very Tired]

thank you
i'm old enough to remember when gaming companies were paying us for beta, not the other way around
i bet they also don't see lootbox as gambling because it always give a 'reward', even if the guarantee reward is a virtual trash that no player even want, and they have to dig their head waaaaaaay up their butts to ignore the thousand of studies that show how lootboxes caused a massive increase in gambling addiction

I'm used to people inventing their own definitions of words, which is sad because you can literally Google "pay to win" and read exactly what it is in five seconds. If that's not bad enough, seems like some people in this thread are convinced that literally nothing can ever be considered pay to win in because it doesn't make WoW's end game credits roll, or you aren't ranked as WoW's top player in the world.

[Mysterymask]

A possible P2W future...

Instant Max-Level: $89.95

Full set of gear from the previous-to-current raid: $129.95

Full set of transmog from an old dungeon or raid (depends on age of content, newer costs more): $55.95 - $155.95

Unlock a specific achievement (with exceptions): $24.95 - 155.95

All heirlooms unlocked: $99.95

Unlock all mounts usable by your character that are still obtainable: $115.95

Unlock all toys: $49.95

Reset instance lock: $99.95

Unlock flying: $79.95

Double loot chance drops: $30.00

Triple loot chance drops (stacks with double): $60.00

Start with 10 stacks of Determination in LFR (only applies to buyer): $100.00

Ultimate Battle-Training Stone: $9.95 each


Activision's sense of greed: Priceless

Blizzard's integrity: Non-existent

Theres a point when pay to win becomes pay to not play the game....
And you kinda blew past it

[HumbleDuck]

I'm used to people inventing their own definitions of words, which is sad because you can literally Google "pay to win" and read exactly what it is in five seconds. If that's not bad enough, seems like some people in this thread are convinced that literally nothing can ever be considered pay to win in because it doesn't make WoW's end game credits roll, or you aren't ranked as WoW's top player in the world.

So, by your definition the game has always been p2w. Even back during vanilla, right?

[Elim Garak]

I'm used to people inventing their own definitions of words, which is sad because you can literally Google "pay to win" and read exactly what it is in five seconds. If that's not bad enough, seems like some people in this thread are convinced that literally nothing can ever be considered pay to win in because it doesn't make WoW's end game credits roll, or you aren't ranked as WoW's top player in the world.

Let's do that, there's a nice feature in google - when I googled pay to win it offered me an answer "What is pay to win" here it is:

"In general a game is considered pay-to-win when a player can gain any gameplay advantage over his non-paying peers"

I bolded the important word for you to get thru your skull, please note how it says "gameplay" and not "any".
I also used italics on the other important word, a peer is someone at your level of power - because comparing level 10 to level 1 is assinine. Therefore skipping the leveling process by paying money - is not pay2win, right? You got to the max level but you have no advantage over other max-level players. In fact, you are at a disadvantage because they got better gear through leveling.

[Mendzia]

To get people that are on the fence about buying it to actually do that.

You don't have gold = you will not buy it.
You have gold (or real money) = you got it.

Simple as that.

I’m doing so help bring economy down a bit.

Wth does 'bring economy down' even mean?
I think you wanted to say ingame inflation?

Mount is still here forever = good riddance of inflation over time since many people can buy it whenever they are able to do it.
On the other hand lets say it will be available once per month/week or whatever on one server. It will be insta gold capped. It is 10mil gold taken from economy per very long period of time.

Tell me more about 'bringing economy down' and taking gold from the game...

To make way for another huge gold sink mount in the next xpac.

Do we even have confirmed any other huge gold sink in this new shitty expansion?
Still does not even make sense sine they did not do that with mammoth, yak, spider or any other expensive mount in other xpacks.

Their specific reasoning of not wanting to have them become common.

This is just total negation of your 1st reason...
... and missed one since everyone who wanted it already got it... or preparing their credit cards...

3 off the top of my head in under 30 seconds, but I guess being on the bandwagon with no real thoughts of your own while letting others shape your opinion on something is just easier.

Still not convinced.
Waiting for other arguments that require more than 30sec.

And yes. I can not think myself critically and i am totally lost in other opinions...

[Big Thanks]

You are not good in the head if you think WoW is "pay to win"

Just because you can buy boosts, which by the way is a reality for every single game in the universe where you can trade or account share, doesnt mean the game is pay to win.
Congratz, you just played yourself. You have no idea what pay to win is.

[The Butt Witch]

When WoW goes f2p.

They don't even need to sell lootboxes per se, just sell additional coins of twisted fate, for real money.

You get your 2 coins in game, and if you want more you can pay $5 for a pack of 5 extra coins.

[niztheundead87]

this must be the millionth time someone made this post

[iinverse]

Step 1: buy a lot of tokens
Step 2: sell em for gold
Step 3 : use the gold to get carried in everything
Step 4: You win

It is with your money alone (pay) that you used to win the game (win)

For gold you can only buy carry to 8/8 hc (can be easily done with pugs), and for 10-15 key (can be easily done too).
You can't to anything that is considered "win" for gold: like Azshara M or 20+ keys or gladiator in pvp.

[ulululu]

42 years, 3 months, 8 days and 32 minutes from this post.

*42 years 3 months 7 days and 55 minutes from your original post, please get your numbers right lul

[The Butt Witch]

Tokens are way too expensive considering the rather low amount of gold they sell for in the AH, so they don't really work as a reliable p2w mechanic.

P2w mechanics entice players to spend more and more without even realizing the fortune they end up spending, not by hitting them with expensive mechanics that they are discouraged from abusing because they can literally see the holes being burned into their pockets.

[Steelangel]

Wow is already pay to win. You buy token with real money and sell it for gold.

You do realize what “selling” means here, right?

You paid $ to buy a token. Someone in game buys that token. They grinded 100k+ and gave that money to you, their benefactor, for game time.

You’re not buying gold. You’re buying someone else game time, and they’re buying it from you.

That’s not P2W. P2W is the ability to gain advantages over others by whaling, and you can’t actually do that by just having a few million gold in game. You can do what, buy a boost? And then what, sit on your AOTC and get kicked from groups for being a skill-free DPS slug?

You people are dense.

[Tumile]

10 years 13 mounts 1.3 per year. Math is hard.

That is not how you would calculate the mounts per year, it's actually beyond stupid. that would be like me calculating the average phone calls being made globally by taking the average since the phone was invented instead of looking at the past year, or 5 years for that matter.

so ignoring just how insanely dumb that is, you can't even count apperently, there is 15 mounts in the store (one being a 2 for 1)

There is the Deluxe edition mounts ontop of that, that came with every expansion since MoP which would be 4 additional store purchased mounts. making it 19 mounts in about 9.5 years, but lets go with 10 like you said, since this is a pointless calculation based on an idiotic idea anyways, making it 1.9 mounts a year.

But wait, theres more, Discontinued Mounts = 3 making it 2.1 store mounts a year.

As well as 5 RAF mounts, which for some are no different than store mounts, as they have to purchase different copies of the game to acquire them for various reasons, such as RAF not being available in their country.

If you just look at Legion + BFA the average mounts released a year is closer to 5, but hey, fuck logic am i right?

[Beefhammer]

That is not how you would calculate the mounts per year, it's actually beyond stupid. that would be like me calculating the average phone calls being made globally by taking the average since the phone was invented instead of looking at the past year, or 5 years for that matter.

so ignoring just how insanely dumb that is, you can't even count apperently, there is 15 mounts in the store (one being a 2 for 1)

There is the Deluxe edition mounts ontop of that, that came with every expansion since MoP which would be 4 additional store purchased mounts. making it 19 mounts in about 9.5 years, but lets go with 10 like you said, since this is a pointless calculation based on an idiotic idea anyways, making it 1.9 mounts a year.

But wait, theres more, Discontinued Mounts = 3 making it 2.1 store mounts a year.

As well as 5 RAF mounts, which for some are no different than store mounts, as they have to purchase different copies of the game to acquire them for various reasons, such as RAF not being available in their country.

If you just look at Legion + BFA the average mounts released a year is closer to 5, but hey, fuck logic am i right?

Deluxe/preorder bonus mounts are not store mounts no matter how you try to justify it. Same for RAF. Even so with 15 that's an average of 1.5 per year. Still compared to other games with shops, WoWs is pretty empty.