NDAA act, signed by Trump, stops completion Nord Stream 2 pipeline (GER/RUS)

[Donatello Trumpi]

Trump signed the bill on Friday. Few days before, Ted Cruz wrote a letter threatening Allseas, the swiss company that russia hired to build the pipeline, with "catastrophic consqeuences" (basically revoking their workers US visa and seizing all company assets in the US among other things) if Allseas continues to work for even 1 day after the bill was signed.

This means that the US is de facto dictating germany and europes energy supply.

Very interesting. Do you agree with this?

Here is how Ted Cruz explains it:
https://youtu.be/kSVclJD5wdY?t=392

[MasterK]

Washington has always been afraid of Berlin-Moscow type cooperations and alliances.

It's cute though, the USA being jealous of other superpowers courting it's EU mistress. Flattering even.

Putin is probably going to tell Trump to get back in line though. Trump is called "Russia's Bitch / Our Agent" on a daily basis in russian mainstream media for a reason.

Citation needed, here on MMO-C you mean?

On topic: there's not much the US can do about it.

[d00mGuArD]

I thought trump was allied with russia!
Anyway, he also signed EastMed pipeline approve, so there will be gas coming from there instead.

[Different Strokes]

This is great! Breaking up the EU/US alliance can only be a good thing for the rest of the world.

I guess you are one of those people who believes everyone will stop meddling in the affairs of other countries of the US and EU pull out of the world stage. Hate to break it to you but if they happens every other world power will vye for supremacy of global power. Russia loves to conquer and annex, and China commits even more egregious human rights violations than the US does. They're both powers that are very anti-democratic. If you want to be ruled over by emperors and kings thats your business.

If you want China and Russia to enslave and kill people on a scale many times more than the US currently does, it is your right to want that. But if you think China and Russia would do this less you are sorely mistaken.

[Crispin]

I guess you are one of those people who believes everyone will stop meddling in the affairs of other countries of the US and EU pull out of the world stage. Hate to break it to you but if they happens every other world power will vye for supremacy of global power. Russia loves to conquer and annex, and China commits even more egregious human rights violations than the US does. They're both powers that are very anti-democratic. If you want to be ruled over by emperors and kings thats your business.

If you want China and Russia to enslave and kill people on a scale many times more than the US currently does, it is your right to want that. But if you think China and Russia would do this less you are sorely mistaken.

Oh he loves China, I’m sure he’d rather live under North Korean control than the horrible regime that’s trying to brainwash him.... in Holland

The US is not dictating europes energy supply.

[Gaidax]

This was a good move. Yes, there will be whining, but it's good that Russia gets countered where it hurts, even if ultimately they will find a way.

[Different Strokes]

Oh he loves China, I’m sure he’d rather live under North Korean control than the horrible regime that’s trying to brainwash him.... in Holland

The US is not dictating europes energy supply.

I think China is even worse than Russia. Russia is that mad dog without any teeth that keeps barking a ton. China is the silent python with deadly poison. Even tho Russia is disruptive to the US, some solid counter measures thoroughly cripple them easily. Russia even relies on China for a lot of its military hardware. China has an economy built on voodoo economics but that does not mean they'd collapse easily. They're an economic force in the world, and they have a record of human rights abuses that easily outweighs the US by several tons.

I would sooner entrust my children to a serial murderer than entrust the world's super power status to the Chinese government.

[Polyxo]

I think China is even worse than Russia. Russia is that mad dog without any teeth that keeps barking a ton. China is the silent python with deadly poison. Even tho Russia is disruptive to the US, some solid counter measures thoroughly cripple them easily. Russia even relies on China for a lot of its military hardware. China has an economy built on voodoo economics but that does not mean they'd collapse easily. They're an economic force in the world, and they have a record of human rights abuses that easily outweighs the US by several tons.

I would sooner entrust my children to a serial murderer than entrust the world's super power status to the Chinese government.

Pythons don't have poison. Also, they go HISSS.

[Different Strokes]

Pythons don't have poison. Also, they go HISSS.

Oh no my analogy fell apart. Oh well. Cobra then.

[Donatello Trumpi]

^Shit white people say.

Stop with your racist bullshit.

[Ghostpanther]

I thought Trump was in cahoots with the Russians?

Since the European parliament voted strongly against the pipeline, then I would say the support is there for the sanctions and stopping it.

[Donatello Trumpi]

I thought Trump was in cahoots with the Russians?

Since the European parliament voted strongly against the pipeline, then I would say the support is there for the sanctions and stopping it.

Don't you know. Germany is "worried" about russia and needs more defense from the US and UK but at the same time pours billions of dollars to russia for a pipeline

As Trump pointed out 1 year ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQkt...rr_watch_on_yt

Trump stopping russia from receiving billions for the pipeline gas which in turn funds the russian military is CLEAR proof of Trumps collusion !!

[Skroe]

Washington has always been afraid of Berlin-Moscow type cooperations and alliances.

It's cute though, the USA being jealous of other superpowers courting it's EU mistress. Flattering even.

Putin is probably going to tell Trump to get back in line though. Trump is called "Russia's Bitch / Our Agent" on a daily basis in russian mainstream media for a reason.

Russia isn’t within a light year of being a superpower

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I thought Trump was in cahoots with the Russians?

Since the European parliament voted strongly against the pipeline, then I would say the support is there for the sanctions and stopping it.

Trump doesn’t actually read the things he signs. Like every. Watching him mouth out the name of the bill he is about to sign like a toddler is endlessly amusing.

[Rialius]

Pythons don't have poison. Also, they go HISSS.

This is the best post of the thread. 10/10 would laugh again.

[Voidwielder]

I don't know, they seem more influential and powerful in world politics than the USA under Trump's leadership at least.

You overestimate personalities.

The basis which makes up US power has not been changed. Same goes for Russia. The former is a de facto Empire, Russia is a decaying regional power which is struggling to keeps it's historic borderlands under control.

[TigTone]

You overestimate personalities.

The basis which makes up US power has not been changed. Same goes for Russia. The former is a de facto Empire, Russia is a decaying regional power which is struggling to keeps it's historic borderlands under control.

And everyone always underestimates Russia.

Look at all the damage they have caused in U.K. and US with just troll farms and propaganda.

Stop looking at them as a worn down Soviet Union and more as a country using current technology ,social media, as a weapon.

The social and culture divided Russia has caused is far harder to repair than them damaging some physical parts of a country.

[Skroe]

You overestimate personalities.

The basis which makes up US power has not been changed. Same goes for Russia. The former is a de facto Empire, Russia is a decaying regional power which is struggling to keeps it's historic borderlands under control.

Bingo. Regardless of Trump we are still in a situation where the US and China’s relative power gap is narrowing but the two together are rocketing away from everyone else very quickly. The ongoing disruption in the EU, economic problems in Japan and faltering of Russia and the BRICS has seen to that.

Pretty much everyone is doing “worse” power wise than they were 20 years ago, China and the US being the exception.

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And everyone always underestimates Russia.

Look at all the damage they have caused in U.K. and US with just troll farms and propaganda.

Stop looking at them as a worn down Soviet Union and more as a country using current technology ,social media, as a weapon.

The social and culture divided Russia has caused is far harder to repair than them damaging some physical parts of a country.

The damage to the US is more “as a matter of principle” than anything else. Trump’s been largely handcuffed from doing much in the way of transformative policy thanks to changes in how the US does budgeting since 2012ish.

The U.K. damage though is real and lasting, but they did it to themselves twice now.

[Different Strokes]

When someone starts off a post with a personal attack, rather than the subject matter being posted, you know they've already lost the argument. But let's entertain this just to clear up some misconceptions about the US and China.

So far China hasn't colonised an entire continent,

But they do want to colonize as much as the eastern hemisphere as they can, they just know that the US is in their way. But I don't get what this has to do with anything, unless you're trying to imply the US has somehow colonized all of a continent? If so then . Are you somehow confusing some military bases around the world with colonization? The US does not seek sovereign rule over the areas with its military bases. And if you're talking about the English colonizing the new world, talk to England, and the people of 250 years ago. If we're making centuries old history a part of the argument... well let's just say you do not want to go there with China.

hasn't destroyed the Middle East

But has had their hand in destroying other parts of the world and continuously attempts to reach across borders only to fail due to western intervention. China is also doing a pretty good job of ethnically cleansing Muslims in their own country. Wouldn't trust them with the middle east unsupervised tbqh. And China is involved in making plenty of other areas of the world unstable and economically/militarily supporting dictatorships around the world against modern western democracies.

The US's involvement in the ME is a muddy one, but many ME countries were already warring and destroying each other before any US intervention happened, so it's not as if the US turned some peaceful utopia into a warring region. It went into a warring region and took on the sides of certain factions in that warring region.

and hasn't overthrown democracies all around the world.

Didn't the US support 72% of the dictators in the world? So please, tell me who is the anti-democratic force in this world.

China has supported most dictatorships that it can feasibly support, especially those that are anti western democracy, and especially anti-US. I admitted the US has its problems. Most of the dictatorships the US supports are - once again - in the middle east but also often against opposing dictatorships. It's not some all encompassing effort to oppose democracy as a whole, unlike China, which opposes the very idea of such a concept, throwing their weight behind dictatorships specifically fighting against democracies. Looking back through your posts, you seem to view China as this perfect ideal nation while denying basic realities like the ethnic cleansing occurring and the denial of the rights of Hong Kong. You just seem to deny basic facts if it makes China look bad. I can at least see the faults of the US, and still know that I'd much prefer western hegemony over a Chinese world dictatorship based on its record of aspiration to impose its laws across the world.

There will always be a world power. The US not existing at the top would not mean that nobody would take that spot. Someone would fill it in, and the top two contenders are China and Russia, with Russia being in a distant second place, but with China supporting Russia in its anti-western stance. A world ruled by China is not a good place, and you're deluding yourself into believing it would be purely on your denial of China's history of human rights abuses and your overblown imagination of US deeds.

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The racist would be the guy whose country kills millions all over the world but prefers that to a situation where he'd have to hand in a bit of his wealth to billions of people in the southern hemisphere.

The Chinese would take all of that money and pour it into the Chinese government. Chinese style communism doesn't involve redistribution of wealth to the world's people. It involves the enrichment of China.

[jeezusisacasual]

This is exactly how you handle politics at the global stage. You use monetary controls to strangle the life out of your adversaries. I wish i was in the meeting room of these places after they got slapped down? Are they upset? How will they provide for their workforce? How is life better in Russia after this? This is my way of dealing with those who have a different overall goal of the western world. You can hold your breath for a bit while being strangled but sooner or later you will try to pull that noose away i am sure Russia will be looking to reroute the pipeline in the future only to be yet again stymied. I would also start targeting the smaller players in the Russian economy like Fertilizers ( 1.8% ), Wood ( 2% ) and Machinery ( 2% ) to toss the nation into recessionary nosedive overnight.

Will this hurt the Russian people? More then likely but the goal is to create the circumstances of a in house political climate that is toxic to its core as seen in places like Iran ( which make no mistake the US helped foster ). Create enough of a resistance and use the international viewing public to clamor against the Russian narrative that even if it is false ( As seen in Syria ) that promotes the image the US wants to see. The goal like i have said is not to be an overnight cleanse so to speak but a slow and methodical collapse think of it like a controlled demolition that forces them to slither and turn at every punch until it falls onto itself. But this is the price one pays when they spit in the bullies face.

I say this as the grandson of a Syrian immigrant mind you.

[Skroe]

This is exactly how you handle politics at the global stage. You use monetary controls to strangle the life out of your adversaries. I wish i was in the meeting room of these places after they got slapped down? Are they upset? How will they provide for their workforce? How is life better in Russia after this? This is my way of dealing with those who have a different overall goal of the western world. You can hold your breath for a bit while being strangled but sooner or later you will try to pull that noose away i am sure Russia will be looking to reroute the pipeline in the future only to be yet again stymied. I would also start targeting the smaller players in the Russian economy like Fertilizers ( 1.8% ), Wood ( 2% ) and Machinery ( 2% ) to toss the nation into recessionary nosedive overnight.

Will this hurt the Russian people? More then likely but the goal is to create the circumstances of a in house political climate that is toxic to its core as seen in places like Iran ( which make no mistake the US helped foster ). Create enough of a resistance and use the international viewing public to clamor against the Russian narrative that even if it is false ( As seen in Syria ) that promotes the image the US wants to see. The goal like i have said is not to be an overnight cleanse so to speak but a slow and methodical collapse think of it like a controlled demolition that forces them to slither and turn at every punch until it falls onto itself. But this is the price one pays when they spit in the bullies face.

I say this as the grandson of a Syrian immigrant mind you.

STRATFOR predicted that Russia’s slow motion collapse would become a leading geopolitical concern in the 2020s... like... 10 years ago. Their predictions for the 2010s were very much on the mark too and largely wrong in terms of a matter of degrees.

But then again this stuff isn’t too surprising for people who look at the world dispassionately. In retrospect it’s kind of silly to think that the Cold War got wrapped up in like 5 years when previously the aftershocks of fallen empires have toppled for decades.

To put it rather straight forward Luis, ‘the Russian empire’, of which the USSR was just a form (and the Russian Federation another) isn’t quite done falling. It is in a plateau of stability, like the romans byzantines, Persians, Chinese and ottomans.