How Long Until Pay To Win Happens?

[KaPe]

That is a pretty extreme way to do it and not something other than a tiny, tiny portion of the player base would even think of or consider, much less actually do. Sure for that 0.001% of players that do it the game is pay to win.

Aren't tokens capped? Can you even buy enough of them at once to pay for a serious mythic boost with all the gear?

[iinverse]

It's already happening. And I feel it's only a matter of time until Blizzard start selling gear boosts themselves.

That kind of boosts you described exists from the first MMO ever existed and presented in ALL MMOs in the world, so its not WoW/blizzard exclusive.

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Aren't tokens capped? Can you even buy enough of them at once to pay for a serious mythic boost with all the gear?

You cant buy mythic boosts with gold, only heroic boosts. Mythic boosts costs only real money.

[KaPe]

That kind of boosts you described exists from the first MMO ever existed and presented in ALL MMOs in the world, so its not WoW/blizzard exclusive.

But they're never official - and it's going to happen *any moment now* in WoW. Just you see. We totally didn't see this prediction back when they started selling... what was it, some shitty transmog headgear? First store mount? But still, any moment!

You cant buy mythic boosts with gold, only heroic boosts. Mythic boosts costs only real money.

Dunno, never bought one, I do my own mythic raids. I guess there might be some exceptions, but assuming that's true - then what kind of shitty power can you even buy for token? Heroic level loot that's puggable? Once next patch removes Titanforging, those "winners" will be significantly inferior to Mythic raiders.

[Eapoe]

the exact amount of time it would have taken to grind it manually. you win time. time is what you win. time you can spend else where. not grinding gold. time you could spend doing something that will move you forward, in gear or progression, or ilvl. gold you can spend on being boosted, on mounts, on boe's whatever it is, its something you can do instantly, vs doing it after you've farmed it yourself.

in an even playing field the only thing that would matter is the time spent in the game playing the game, the only influence on your personal progression. unless you have some sort of super rare item you can sell in the game, the chances of you stumbling on 100s of thousands of gold is basically zero.

its really not that complex but i can see the endless justifications churning away and the white knightyness is getting a bit boring if i'm honest. you don't have to defend the game.

Don’t really think anyone is being a white knight or defending a game. They are more just pointing out how you are being an idiot and twisting the definition of P2W to suit your needs.

[PenguinChan]

P2W happens when the western market starts accepting P2W in their PC / Console games as a whole, which hasn't happened. It exists in the phone market, and eastern games ported to the west (But they tend to be less P2W, even if they are)... So, yeah. When the market accepts it, WoW will become P2W -- so probably not in the foreseeable future.

[kaintk]

Supposedly that's the reason the Longboi's moving to the BMAH, to fOrCe people to buy tokens...

i farmed the game loike you suppose to do and buyed it, i have a few millions left in my bank, 0 token buyed

forcing token to buy ? lol..

and for the topic, ptw will happens when the game will be less popular, because doing it now would the death of the game directly lol

if they have another mmorpg in mind or preparation in a few years, i think the ptw for WoW will happens at this moment

[PedroloGeo]

Isn’t that happening already? I can pay 20€ and get 240k gold to buy gear or rushes. All legal and stipulated by ActiBlizz. I don’t know what are you talking about...

[Gevoth]

It's the only game I've ever seen that sells boosts to current max level. Not a catch up to the start of the most recent content, but a skip all the way to endgame content. Never seen that before in any game. In my book that makes WoW the undisputed king of pay to win gaming.

Seems most of the people here have changed their definition of PTW. Seems it now needs to be something that gives exclusive power otherwise unavailable in game. If that's the case I've never played a PTW game, seen one, or even heard of one.

[iinverse]

But they're never official - and it's going to happen *any moment now* in WoW.

Like its going to happen in... any game?

But still, any moment!

I hear this since shop introduced -_-
And still it isnt here.

[Clbull]

That is a pretty extreme way to do it and not something other than a tiny, tiny portion of the player base would even think of or consider, much less actually do. Sure for that 0.001% of players that do it the game is pay to win.

I don't think so.

This is Jorge Yao, a Clash of Clans player who gained Rank 1 status and millions of fans by being a full-blown wallet warrior and blowing hundreds of dollars a week on gems to reset production cooldowns - and this was before rich clanmates personally sponsored him in exchange for having him boost their accounts.

If mobile game fans will celebrate one of the most gluttonous examples of pay-to-win in fucking existence, then of course people will pay a fraction of this in WoW tokens for a Mythic Azshara boost.

[Heathy]

Don’t really think anyone is being a white knight or defending a game. They are more just pointing out how you are being an idiot and twisting the definition of P2W to suit your needs.

am i really? since when did the ability to inject real wealth into a game, for ingame wealth, that can directly be used to gain power especially on lower geared characters. this isn't paying to win, again winning in an mmo is not really possible, saving a lot of time is though.

this is the same for any mmo you consider pay to win, name one, whatever you can buy you can also get from playing the long game. either grinding it out youself or waiting for it, eve online is pay to win, even more so these days since they added the skill injectors, is it THE most pay to win mmo, probably not. but anything you can get by throwing your wallet at the screen can also be attained through time. the long game.

the issue is that ppl are hand waving things that don't concern them which is easy in an mmo where most ppls progress has no real baring on your gameplay. especially if you play on pve or simply never pvp. because ppl buying gear or buying boosts or buying accounts, these ppl have a minor affect on your game. in other words, it barely affects you, but it doesn't diminish that its there. ppl really are going all out trying to defend it and ignore it, the justifications are amusing but getting repetitive when they gloss over the issue entirely. with anecdotes about themselves no less, like one persons experience is not a drop in this particular ocean. but it is.

[Depakote]

It already has. That happened with the wow token. Buy one of those, sell it for gold, buy a run through whatever mythic crap you want and you're set.

[iinverse]

It's the only game I've ever seen that sells boosts to current max level.

Because the game begins at max level?
Because leveling is the least part of this game that most people prefer to skip?
And boosts to current max level introduced when? after a year of xpac?

And... you know, that FFXIV for example selling QUESTS skip for real money

Seems it now needs to be something that gives exclusive power otherwise unavailable in game. If that's the case I've never played a PTW game, seen one, or even heard of one.

Mostly asian MMOs and mobile games.

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then of course people will pay a fraction of this in WoW tokens for a Mythic Azshara boost.

It already has. That happened with the wow token. Buy one of those, sell it for gold, buy a run through whatever mythic crap you want and you're set.

For both of you: you can't buy Azshara Mythic with gold, only for real money.

[Depakote]

Because the game begins at max level?
Because leveling is the least part of this game that most people prefer to skip?
And boosts to surrent max level introduced when? after a year of xpac?

And... you know, that FFXIV for example selling QUESTS skip for real money


Mostly asian MMOs and mobile games.

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For both of you: you can't buy Azshara Mythic with gold, only for real money.

You keep telling yourself that. You're still going to be wrong though.

[iinverse]

You keep telling yourself that. You're still going to be wrong though.

Well, try to buy Azshara M for gold

[JackWest]

That kind of boosts you described exists from the first MMO ever existed and presented in ALL MMOs in the world, so its not WoW/blizzard exclusive.

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You cant buy mythic boosts with gold, only heroic boosts. Mythic boosts costs only real money.

Nah, you CAN buy mythic for gold. I made the mistake to loan some gold back in Antorus to a guy I knew for his Cutting Edge boost, and back in BoD I remember guilds advertising something like full run WITH mount for 10 mil. Or perhaps that stopped now in EP

Though the whole issue is how a person understands "pay to win". Irony is, according to some people here, almost every online game would be "pay to win" to some extend, eventhough if someone randomly asked them "is X game, pay to win" they'd straight say "ofc not"

[iinverse]

Nah, you CAN buy mythic for gold. I made the mistake to loan some gold back in Antorus to a guy I knew for his Cutting Edge boost, and back in BoD I remember guilds advertising something like full run WITH mount for 10 mil. Or perhaps that stopped now in EP

Boosters sell mounts only from outdated mythic content for gold (like from previous patches - for example, you can now buy mount from Jaina M for gold).
Current content only for real money - because mythic can be done only once per lockout per character, so boost spots (like 1-3 per raid) are heavily limited and reserved for real money payers. HC situation are easier - you can run boost raid literally hundreds of times per lockout (because hc and lower difficulties have only loot lockout), therefore you can afford reserve some spots for gold payers.

[JackWest]

Boosters sell mounts only from outdated mythic content for gold (like from previous patches).
Current content only for real money - because mythic can be done only once per lockout per character, so boost spots (like 1-3 per raid) are heavily limited and reserved for real money payers. HC situation are easier - you can run boost raid literally hundreds of times per lockout (because hc and lower difficulties have only loot lockout), therefore you can afford reserve some spots for gold payers.

I know for a fact that in older tiers boosts with or without mount WERE sold for gold, I am just not sure if that practice is still on going. As I said, a guy I know was boosted for gold for CE in Antorus and BoD I was seeing advertisements for mount boosts every week, for gold

[Gevoth]

Because the game begins at max level?
Because leveling is the least part of this game that most people prefer to skip?
And boosts to current max level introduced when? after a year of xpac?

And... you know, that FFXIV for example selling QUESTS skip for real money

No I didn't. I assume it's old quests you can skip. Can't buy quest skip for double extreme mode clears? IE another catchup MTX.

And yeah I believe, just never seen it myself. Don't mobile and only asian one I've tried is BDO.

The boosts/catchups are all the same to me. Money to save time. Paying extra gets you an advantage over non paying players was always my definition of it. I guess times have changed. Cause everything online has that anymore in one way or another. Be it a season pass, or a sub, or a boost.

[iinverse]

And yeah I believe, just never seen it myself. Don't mobile and only asian one I've tried is BDO.

BDO have pretty soft donate comparing to other asian MMOs and some Russian MMOs (like Allods online or Wargaming stuff).

The boosts/catchups are all the same to me. Money to save time. Paying extra gets you an advantage over non paying players was always my definition of it. I guess times have changed. Cause everything online has that anymore in one way or another. Be it a season pass, or a sub, or a boost.

Boost catch up in wow - is for bad players over bad players.
You can't catch up to good player progress by paying gold, only for mediocre shit like 10 keys or hc raid, and even not in first weeks of tier, when all good players already did all progress they want.