Metzen and the tone shift of D3.

[Wildmoon]

I just found out that D1 and D2's stories and overall tone came out that way because Metzen was an angry and edgy teenager. In D3, the tone shift was intentional from him and he knows people don't like it. Basically, all of them are reflections of him at different stages lol.


1:02:30
https://www.frogpants.com/blog/2019/...3-i-am-content

[callipygoustp]

I wish I had been that angry and edgy teenager and had those credits to my name.

[Wildmoon]

Ok. And?
I learned today that poinsettas don't actually kill cats and dogs.

Wut? What you are implying? lol

[Yoshingo]

I miss Metzen so much, even if he was a bit stereotypical on his storytelling (By his own admission). It's so much better than what we have now I think, which seems to be this weird "Let's just do fanservice" council of writers on all their games. Yes Metzen didn't write everything but all the major story beats of all of Blizzard's big 3 games were from him, which 100% drove the tone of all 3 of those franchises.

Also was the Diablo 3 story really that hated? I had always thought the hatred was for the gameplay stuff, like the RMAH and how the game was clearly designed around spending actual money on the RMAH.

The only story beat I actively disliked was Cain's death at the hands of...whatever that butterfly demon woman's name was. I was totally fine with him dying, and I actually went into the game expecting he would die at some point, but not by a miniboss of a single act who ultimately did not matter to the story overall.

I really liked Leah and her fate, it felt really fitting for Diablo. In the interview he says people complained the game wasn't as fatalistic as the first two, but I donno man seeing Leah just realize she's fucked and having to watch it on screen and not able to save her, that felt really Diablo to me. Also the entire ending of the original D3 was as dark as the ending of D2 imo. Yes Diablo was defeated but Heaven was totally wrecked, Leah and Cain were dead, Malthael was missing, and Imperius very nearly became a villain in his own right.

[Wildmoon]

I miss Metzen so much, even if he was a bit stereotypical on his storytelling (By his own admission). It's so much better than what we have now I think, which seems to be this weird "Let's just do fanservice" council of writers on all their games. Yes Metzen didn't write everything but all the major story beats of all of Blizzard's big 3 games were from him, which 100% drove the tone of all 3 of those franchises.

Also was the Diablo 3 story really that hated? I had always thought the hatred was for the gameplay stuff, like the RMAH and how the game was clearly designed around spending actual money on the RMAH.

The only story beat I actively disliked was Cain's death at the hands of...whatever that butterfly demon woman's name was. I was totally fine with him dying, and I actually went into the game expecting he would die at some point, but not by a miniboss of a single act who ultimately did not matter to the story overall.

D3's actual story and tone are pretty controversial. People just don't feel like it continues the legacy of the first two. Metzen in the interview basically admited that it was intentional from him to also turn it into a part of his unifying vision of Blizzard's "epic" vibe. I personally think that's a wrong move. They should really have embraced what's unique to each different franchise rather than trying to have an overarching theme of Blizzard.

[Verdugo]

Also was the Diablo 3 story really that hated?

Everything about the story felt like a shitty wow expansion, not a Diablo game.

As for main points:
An angel somehow turning into a human by himself.
Lord of lies being a terrible liar.
Steve Blum, instead of explaining to us what is happening, starts channeling Palpatine, which our character takes as a cue for a bossfight.
Greatest general of hells armies being a failure that only knows how to zerg rush and tell you everything he is about to do in advance.
Titty-Diablo.
Titty-Diablo mocking you for foiling his plans until he himself is killed.
The angel-turned human returning to the angel council... as a human... somehow.

And worst of all:

Shitty voiceacting.

[Yoshingo]

An angel somehow turning into a human by himself.

Ah yes the most unbelievable thing in this franchise of angels demons and magical humans.

Your entire list are just completely and wholly subjective points a lot of which seem to be the least charitable way to possibly look at plot points just to complain about them.

[Cathfaern]

Lord of lies being a terrible liar.
Greatest general of hells armies being a failure that only knows how to zerg rush and tell you everything he is about to do in advance.

This two. My first Diablo game was the 3, so has no preconception but both was really disappointing. For the first one, I honestly believed that the boy is not the Lord of lies. But not because he was so good, but because it was so obvious that I thought there must be a twist there, so the boy cannot be him. The second one was simply ridiculous, and reminded me of a generic WoW leveling dungeon boss, which say at every 20% loss that "yeah, you are totally shit and you have no chance and I will totally kill you" while he cannot even scratch the group.

[Verdugo]

Ah yes the most unbelievable thing in this franchise of angels demons and magical humans.

The universe needs consistency. Angels are angels. Demons are demons. Hybrid of the two is human. Those are set rules.
So how the fuck does an angel, and not any angel, but one of the first, turn into a human by just ripping off his shoulderplates.

As for the rest, you can "subjectively" like a garbage, doesnt mean it isnt garbage.

This two. My first Diablo game was the 3, so has no preconception but both was really disappointing. For the first one, I honestly believed that the boy is not the Lord of lies. But not because he was so good, but because it was so obvious that I thought there must be a twist there, so the boy cannot be him. The second one was simply ridiculous, and reminded me of a generic WoW leveling dungeon boss, which say at every 20% loss that "yeah, you are totally shit and you have no chance and I will totally kill you" while he cannot even scratch the group.

You can see that Starcraft 2, Diablo 3 and WoW: Cataclysm were written at around the same time of Metzens career. All 3 started the trend of vapid stories with the "epic for the sake of epic" label.

[Thrif]

I mean, the story has kind of always been "here be demons, kill demons" just that in D3 they tried to add some twists and the only thing that stuck the landing was Cain's death, and only because we had grown accustomed to him over the last two games.

Tone wise I wouldn't say D2 was much darker than D3 either. Only diablo 1 had that feeling imho.

[Sanguinerd]

Worst part of D3 for me was when you're in the High Heavens and you have to go through all the motions of stopping those portals and what not all the while Diablo is like "oh you think that was the only portal huh, I bet you won't find the other ones" only to proceed with shit like "you found the other one huh?! well it doesnt matter anyway because you'll neeeever stop me" it just went on and on and on.

Blizzard story telling seems to just go from event to event and everything in between they don't care about. Same with WoW really, they write events and then try to connect the dots but fail miserably.

Do miss seeing Metzen at Blizzcon though, the guy just had charisma and his excitement was contagious.

[KrayZ33]

Worst part of D3 for me was when you're in the High Heavens and you have to go through all the motions of stopping those portals and what not all the while Diablo is like "oh you think that was the only portal huh, I bet you won't find the other ones" only to proceed with shit like "you found the other one huh?! well it doesnt matter anyway because you'll neeeever stop me" it just went on and on and on.

This is basically D3 in a nutshell.
It's almost pathetic..

[owbu]

The universe needs consistency. Angels are angels. Demons are demons. Hybrid of the two is human. Those are set rules.
So how the fuck does an angel, and not any angel, but one of the first, turn into a human by just ripping off his shoulderplates.

That's not an inconsitency, though. They never explained how the three can change into each other. Now they did. Expanding your lore is okay. Even if it contradicts peoples assumptions on how stuff works.

As for the rest, I completely agree. Lazy tropes, cardboard villains and so on are bad storytelling. A fantasy theme doesn't mean your story doesn't need to be good.

[Dracullus]

Yeah, demons in Diablo 3 were the worst part. They felt rather like Burning "we will crush you puny mortals" Legion from last WoW expac. So far Diablo 4 goes in right direction, but we will see.

[Verdugo]

That's not an inconsitency, though. They never explained how the three can change into each other.

Well Angels and Demons never could but ok. Humans were made out of both and we have seen some turning partialy into demons but that was it.

[Beefhammer]

The universe needs consistency. Angels are angels. Demons are demons. Hybrid of the two is human. Those are set rules.
So how the fuck does an angel, and not any angel, but one of the first, turn into a human by just ripping off his shoulderplates.

As for the rest, you can "subjectively" like a garbage, doesnt mean it isnt garbage.



You can see that Starcraft 2, Diablo 3 and WoW: Cataclysm were written at around the same time of Metzens career. All 3 started the trend of vapid stories with the "epic for the sake of epic" label.

Tyrael didn't turn human, he became mortal. Big difference.

[Verdugo]

Tyrael didn't turn human, he became mortal. Big difference.

Oh right, he didnt turn into a human, he became """mortal""". By turning into human.

This guy fixed the plot hole, moving along.

[KrayZ33]

Oh right, he didnt turn into a human, he became """mortal""". By turning into human.

This guy fixed the plot hole, moving along.

That's how it is. Either accept it or write your own lore - which as we can see by you saying he's human, would be even worse.
Tyrael is not human, he's a mortal angel.

[Beefhammer]

Oh right, he didnt turn into a human, he became """mortal""". By turning into human.

This guy fixed the plot hole, moving along.

You are still wrong. He is still an Angel, he just lost his immortality and has to behave like a mortal being. Doesn't matter what you believe happened.

[Grimbold21]

Issue with the D3's story and its game implementation was that it was a series of "You're nothing, you can't destroy me" and we proceed to do it. It's a repetition of in your face, obvious tells and the things still happen. I mean, was there ever any doubt Zoltun Kulle was a shady character? Was there ever doubt who the boy emperor was?

The most ridiculous is the last act with Diablo constantly telling us we will fail, but not really, and also how all the Prime and lesser evils combined were still weaker than the Nephalem.

It was, personally, a downgrade from D2 where, if I recall correctly, there's no visible connection or exposition between whatever the evils are and the player. There isn't much acknowledgement of our existence.