Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker

[cubby]

Just saw it. Great end to the 4+ decade saga. Seems like it had some more excitement than VII or VIII - liked this one the best of those three.

[Jastall]

Just because space wizards exist doesn't mean the laws of physics no longer apply to anything.

Dude, this is a movie with explosions in space, usable and portable laser weapons, ultra-thick asteroid belts, moon-sized space stations and massive quadrupedal walkers that somehow don't buckle under their own weight (among many, many, many other things). The laws of physics took an extended break a long, long time ago in the galaxy far, far away even if you discount the Force.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

This is a kiss from the princess of the story to the hero that saves her. Integral part of the hero's journey. A classic movie trope.

Also, the kiss Leia gave Luke in ESB was to make Han jealous. It was actually part of the romance story between Han and Leia.

Don't compare apples to oranges.

It’s very much to apples to apples as neither have any romantic buildup before hand which is what dex brought up.

[s_bushido]

I have no problem with the kiss itself. I have a problem with the direction of the kiss. I would have gladly accepted it if the shot had 3 couples kissing and one of it was gay or lesbian.

Uh huh. And had it been a straight couple who were the only two actually to be shown kissing, you'd be here demanding their relationship have been previously established as part of the plot, right? Please.

[Fabinas]

do you really care, though? does anybody? my biggest issue is that they weren't hot.

I wouldn't give a fuck about their hotness. I wouldn't accept a gay or lesbian kiss in a movie based on the merit of the "hotness" of the kiss or the scene or the couple. I would just like it blended naturally in the scene.

That one just had a huge spotlight on it, just for the marketing. Proof is the removal of the scene in a market that would shun the movie with it. It also proves why it was directed as a standalone shot and not as a part of a scene where many couples, straight and gay/lesbian/trans/whatever kissed.
To be removed at will. As it was.

[AlexaDill]

And the red carpet premiere is over!! Discuss the spoilers of the movie with spoiler tags. Poll going up tomorrow (Wednesday). Do not even drop a vague spoiler despite even if there have been meritible posts in this thread.

[Prokne]

Since we NEVER EVER had any sign in the previous movies that the kissers were actually lesbian (and such a fact inserted there in a meaningful way into the plot), the kiss dropped in there is just to appease the lesbian audience. For exactly none whatsoever story reasons.

Although this is a minor thing in the movie and IMO doesn't make it better or worse, LGBT people recognize it as pandering. When an LGBT couple has a romantic relationship that is integral to the story line so that it can't be removed to placate foreign censors, then the movie will actually make progress. I don't see that happening in a big blockbuster movie as long as studios want foreign money.

[Skulltaker]

It’s very much to apples to apples as neither have any romantic buildup before hand which is what dex brought up.

Have you never been kissed without any romantic buildup? I mean, I literally got a good luck kiss from a nurse when I performed my first surgery as doctor in charge. She knew I was a massive Star Wars fan (and so was she), but it sure as hell calmed me down.

Kissing doesn't require romance. Just saying.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Have you never been kissed without any romantic buildup? I mean, I literally got a good luck kiss from a nurse when I performed my first surgery as doctor in charge. She knew I was a massive Star Wars fan (and so was she), but it sure as hell calmed me down.

Kissing doesn't require romance. Just saying.

I'm not saying it does that's something the person i was replying to brought up.

[qwerty123456]

You clearly haven't been paying attention to the franchise

The only new thing is the Force dyad or whatever you want to call it.

Oh so in the movies they had teleport before these 3 films? And you claimed Luke was slightly less powerful. Where do you see him doing anything close to the powers they have with less then a months training? Why does yoda one of the most powerful jedi who has trained for tons of years struggle to use the force on a massive chunk of shit and rey and kylo can yank a starship like its nothing?

[Kithelle]

your fighting a strawman.

- - - Updated - - -



if it doesn't take away from the movie in any way then your complaining just for the sake of complaining.

Sorry...seen it all over and through multiple fandoms. If the main character is female people will instantly pull the misogynist card if you dare not love it 100%

[Ragedaug]

Power creep happened in games where you needed to feel your character getting stronger or in books where they pumped out a million of them so needed something so the stories weren't just rehashes of previous stories.

The power creep JJ put in the films didn't just affect the force though it touched every fucking thing in his films like the sun eating super death star that can hit multiple planets with homing lazers and he ended his films with a Fleet of planet busters and force powers that can effect whole ships and planets. At least Rian had Luke get strained so hard from force projected to another planet that he became one with the force and died.

And do you really think Disney is done with star wars?? They paid billions they are going to milk it for all its worth. Sure they may wait another 20 years and I hope you are right that the creep slows down but if it doesn't and we get another JJ the next trilogy will have a force user moving planets to create a new solar system and galaxy destroying superweapons.

First, that power creep JJ put in his movies was already in the Star Wars Extended Universe. So you can be mad at JJ for including it, and that's fair criticism, but he didn't invent it. So that's not to argue with what you said, but just to clarify the point.

And no I don't think Disney is done with Star Wars. I doubt they're in the green yet, so we aren't even talking profits, which is the actual goal for the company. When I said they are done, I'm talking about the Saga. The Trilogy of Trilogies. The "Skywalker" or "Palpatine" saga. Episodes 1-9 tell a continuous narrative, and it's a let down when you have the main obstacle to overcome show up in the middle of the story. In story telling, most people try to fit the climax into the ending. So in telling a single story (even over 9 movies) you build to the biggest conflict at the end. So that's what's I'm referencing for power creep and how the saga being over helps.

The individual stories/movies they tell going forward don't have to have galactic emperor type villains with the safety of the entire galaxy at risk. So you don't have to create newer bigger villains for the future stories. They just have to be compelling villains. Compare it to Marvel. The biggest villains show up in the ensemble-cast movies. The villains in the non-ensemble-cast movie are much smaller in scale. Does that make sense? Wasn't sure if you were just arguing to argue, or just misunderstood the point I was trying to make.

[PACOX]

Oh so in the movies they had teleport before these 3 films? And you claimed Luke was slightly less powerful. Where do you see him doing anything close to the powers they have with less then a months training? Why does yoda one of the most powerful jedi who has trained for tons of years struggle to use the force on a massive chunk of shit and rey and kylo can yank a starship like its nothing?

You know the franchise goes beyond the movies right?

[qwerty123456]

Dang he saw a ton of shit that I didn't even think about on my first viewing, I'm being forced to go see it again this weekend I really want to see if they Say Palp conjured the fleet like Mike from half in the bag thought he heard as well as some of the stuff this guy says.

First, that power creep JJ put in his movies was already in the Star Wars Extended Universe. So you can be mad at JJ for including it, and that's fair criticism, but he didn't invent it. So that's not to argue with what you said, but just to clarify the point.

And no I don't think Disney is done with Star Wars. I doubt they're in the green yet, so we aren't even talking profits, which is the actual goal for the company. When I said they are done, I'm talking about the Saga. The Trilogy of Trilogies. The "Skywalker" or "Palpatine" saga. Episodes 1-9 tell a continuous narrative, and it's a let down when you have the main obstacle to overcome show up in the middle of the story. In story telling, most people try to fit the climax into the ending. So in telling a single story (even over 9 movies) you build to the biggest conflict at the end. So that's what's I'm referencing for power creep and how the saga being over helps.

The individual stories/movies they tell going forward don't have to have galactic emperor type villains with the safety of the entire galaxy at risk. So you don't have to create newer bigger villains for the future stories. They just have to be compelling villains. Compare it to Marvel. The biggest villains show up in the ensemble-cast movies. The villains in the non-ensemble-cast movie are much smaller in scale. Does that make sense? Wasn't sure if you were just arguing to argue, or just misunderstood the point I was trying to make.

I explain why powercreep occured in the Star Wars extended universe the point was it wasn't in the film universe till he did so and that powercreep that did occur took decades and hundreds of stories and videogames he took 3 years and 2 films to bring that insanity.

You know the franchise goes beyond the movies right?

And you know that I already explained that in the very first post you quoted right? Or do you just white knight against anyone saying anything negative about your film without reading it? And above is a more detailed explanation.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Oh so in the movies they had teleport before these 3 films? And you claimed Luke was slightly less powerful. Where do you see him doing anything close to the powers they have with less then a months training? Why does yoda one of the most powerful jedi who has trained for tons of years struggle to use the force on a massive chunk of shit and rey and kylo can yank a starship like its nothing?

If you read the comic's you see luke do more with no training and as far as yoda goes all the training doesn't increase your power just your mastery and hes weaker then kylo/rey/luke/vader.

[Ragedaug]

I explain why powercreep occured in the Star Wars extended universe the point was it wasn't in the film universe till he did so and that powercreep that did occur took decades and hundreds of stories and videogames he took 3 years and 2 films to bring that insanity.

As you noted, the power creep was already there. In all those decades, they developed the power creep that JJ used. This one almost comes down to a "damned if you do and damned if you don't" for JJ. He was criticized for tossing away the EU while developing TFA. Now he dives head first to borrow/use Force powers from the EU, and he's criticized again.

Possibly the biggest problem facing Disney is that there isn't a consensus for what Star Wars fans want. Fan's of the EU have a lot of different tastes than fans of video only medium. No one cried about Star Wars being dead or being trashed when all these crazy Force abilities were first portrayed in the EU. So it feels like currently it's the movie-only crowd who's really upset.

But if you make the movie-only crowd happy, it's likely going to be at the expense of the EU nerds, so they'll be complaining. And if you try to deliver a balance between the two, both camps will complain. Disney bought a no-win situation and now has to figure out what to do with it, and the fans have a lot to do with why we'll never be happy with what they produce.

[qwerty123456]

If you read the comic's you see luke do more with no training and as far as yoda goes all the training doesn't increase your power just your mastery and hes weaker then kylo/rey/luke/vader.

And this took years for that power creep to happen and hundreds of books and comics. They couldn't just keep rehashing the same story. JJ took a couple years to toss all this insane shit in and even then he did it while also cloning the story.

As you noted, the power creep was already there. In all those decades, they developed the power creep that JJ used. This one almost comes down to a "damned if you do and damned if you don't" for JJ. He was criticized for tossing away the EU while developing TFA. Now he dives head first to borrow/use Force powers from the EU, and he's criticized again.

Possibly the biggest problem facing Disney is that there isn't a consensus for what Star Wars fans want. Fan's of the EU have a lot of different tastes than fans of video only medium. No one cried about Star Wars being dead or being trashed when all these crazy Force abilities were first portrayed in the EU. So it feels like currently it's the movie-only crowd who's really upset.

But if you make the movie-only crowd happy, it's likely going to be at the expense of the EU nerds, so they'll be complaining. And if you try to deliver a balance between the two, both camps will complain. Disney bought a no-win situation and now has to figure out what to do with it, and the fans have a lot to do with why we'll never be happy with what they produce.

JJ wasn't the one who tossed away the EU it was Disney. And most people only know of the films and tv series. They could have easily kept the normal stuff to the films and tv series and have the insane power creep in the comics, books, and games. Hell they could have even just made the most popular books, etc into films and the powercreep wouldn't have been this insane.

And again this took them decades to get to these insane levels because they needed new stuff to sell a book, game whatever. JJ made the powercreep cannon and did so in a couple years. Like seriously what powercreep will happen in the next 30 years because JJ chose to start with an already op universe? Will we see all force users flying around like superman shooting force lighting that destroys galaxies?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

And this took years for that power creep to happen and hundreds of books and comics. They couldn't just keep rehashing the same story. JJ took a couple years to toss all this insane shit in and even then he did it while also cloning the story.

actually no this happens rather quickly after Disney bought starwars and the EU power creep was absolutely massive compared to Disney and incredibly fast.

[Ragedaug]

I guess we are lucky JJ didn't use the World Devastators or Sun Crusher (both in the EU). I'm afraid to even tell you guys what they did (but I bet you might be able to make a guess).

[Lorgar Aurelian]

JJ wasn't the one who tossed away the EU it was Disney. And most people only know of the films and tv series. They could have easily kept the normal stuff to the films and tv series and have the insane power creep in the comics, books, and games. Hell they could have even just made the most popular books, etc into films and the powercreep wouldn't have been this insane.

And again this took them decades to get to these insane levels because they needed new stuff to sell a book, game whatever. JJ made the powercreep cannon and did so in a couple years. Like seriously what powercreep will happen in the next 30 years because JJ chose to start with an already op universe? Will we see all force users flying around like superman shooting force lighting that destroys galaxies?

go read the new disney canon comic's JJ isn't the one who starter the power creep and even if he did they are just pulling stuff from the EU which they had always planned to do the powercreep had nothing to do with JJ personally.