Azshara is not a terrible person

[matrix123mko]

P.S if Sylvanas was "evil" she would have killed Bolvar

Or she got dumb so we can stop her later.

[crakerjack]

She's a narcissist. That stuck up bitch did everything for herself. If it seemed like she was doing favors for others, reality is she was benefiting more than the others were. Did you not watch the video of her trying to protect her city? She wasn't protecting it in fear of her citizens, she was protecting it to uphold her legacy.

[Life-Binder]

Or she got dumb so we can stop her later.

headcanon .

[Grimbold21]

she literally helped summoned Sargeras onto Azeroth



P.S if Sylvanas was "evil" she would have killed Bolvar

And then herself

[Wilfire]

In defense of Azshara / Sargeras debacle: Azshara did not realize what Sargeras was until it was already far too late. Neither did the Eredar triumvirate. Velen had the Naaru intervene. Azshara has Sargeras' inside men feeding her bullshit. Absolutely anyone in her position would have made the same mistake. And she learned from that mistake: she took what she needed from N'Zoth and then planned to get rid of him.

[Nathanyel]

Appearance of characters like Jaina or Alleria doesn't help.

Well, that, too, but your examples are a different level anyway, since they're protagonists for one faction and antagonists for the other.

[Doffen]

I'd say we can make the determination based on whether or not the majority of us, having looked at her actions from our current position, would choose to live under her rule.

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What's the difference? Or rather where do you draw the line between being evil and 'just' terrible?

Yeah, you met some terrible people in life which wasn't evil? I have, I am pretty sure most have actually.

Where people would draw the line? I mean, if I met a person whos obnoxious, I would say that person is terrible. Evil? I don't think I even have to draw a line for you, I think for most people that is self-explanatory.

For the topic though? I would say Azshara is pretty evil, but with some redeeming sides. But she is 100% a terrible person.

[Temp1on2]

Yeah, you met some terrible people in life which wasn't evil? I have, I am pretty sure most have actually.

Where people would draw the line? I mean, if I met a person whos obnoxious, I would say that person is terrible. Evil? I don't think I even have to draw a line for you, I think for most people that is self-explanatory.

For the topic though? I would say Azshara is pretty evil, but with some redeeming sides. But she is 100% a terrible person.

Oh i see, yea I meant in the context of the thread. I thought you were trying to imply that the actions that made Azshara a terrible person didn't necessarily make her evil.

It's kinda like some actions automatically make you both (basically you couldn't reasonably be 'evil' without also being 'terrible').

[Masqerader]

Let's get one thing straight - while Azshara may have done some unsavory things, as far as Warcraft characters go she is nowhere near Gul'dan, Sylvanas or Archimonde levels of evil. Here are some of Azshara's virtuous qualities:

1. Azshara pursued knowledge. She turned her palace into a massive research facility and had the Highborne study the Well of Eternity instead of engaging in their usual decadence. During her reign the Night Elves made remarkable breakthroughs in the understanding of leylines, the arcane and teleportation technologies.

What did Tyrande do during her reign? That's right, she lived in a treehouse until Sylvanas set it on fire and dedicated the Night Elves to the worship of a sky fairy that didn't answer their pleas for help when it mattered the most.

2. Azshara understood diplomacy. She forged a peace treaty with the Zandalari to stop their incursions into the Night Elven Empire and the peace actually lasted for years.

What did Tyrande's diplomacy accomplish? She couldn't even get her formal allies to help the Night Elves retake their lands.

3. Azshara tolerated other beliefs. While she may not have liked the Wild Gods, she tolerated them and let them live in peace on Mount Hyjal. And she built Temples of Elune even thought she thought the arcane was the greater power.

Tyrande, on the other hand, insulted Velen when he DARED suggest that Elune might be a Naaru even though she herself knows jackshit about Elune. And Velen is actually a lot older, more experienced and most importantly a better leader than her. Malfurion was right. Tyrande really should keep her mouth shut.

4. Azshara was progressive. Her inner circle consisted of both men and women. Even after her subjects were transformed into the Naga with men having a monstrous appearance and being more suited to melee combat, she still had equal representation in her court.

Tyrande, on the other hand, took an egalitarian society and turned it sexist with sharply divided gender roles. What the fuck, Tyrande?

5. But most important of all, Azshara cared for her subjects. Not in a benevolent way, but she saw them more as her toys and she didn't want other people hurting them. When push came to shove, she tried to save her empire with her own hands.

Tyrande doesn't care for anyone other than Malfurion. When Teldrassil was about to be occupied she convenient left the battlefield. Can you imagine Azshara abandoning her subjects and her capital to the enemy? I sure as hell can't.

I look forward to Azshara's redemption story. She should come back as the true queen of the Night Elves and restore them to their former glory. No more Elune worship, no more treehouses, no more hillbilly sexism. The Night Elves will rebuild their empire under Azshara's guidance and become a force to be reckoned with once more.

Bonus round: Azshara was classy and elegant. For all her ornaments and gems, Tyrande still looks gaudy rather than queenly.

She didn't Stalin/Hitler the planet at all....

[AlexaDill]

Azshara wasn't terrible... until WotA.

[Nefarious Tea]

Or she got dumb so we can stop her later.

Pretty sure it's this. Sylvanas is so infuriatingly arrogant (considering all her power is borrowed) that she probably didn't think it was worth the effort to kill Bolvar.

[Neklord]

My theory is that Azshara had no choice but to help the Legion, because she knew she couldn't beat Sargeras and the world was too young to help the Night Elves. For her people's survival she accepted the pact with N'zoth. Her attacks on Azeroth were done to make us stronger, they were never big enough to wipe us out. Several Naga helped the Illidari and the Blood Elves. Azshara has an agenda to help the enemy and then at some point stab them in the back.

[Jastall]

In defense of Azshara / Sargeras debacle: Azshara did not realize what Sargeras was until it was already far too late. Neither did the Eredar triumvirate. Velen had the Naaru intervene. Azshara has Sargeras' inside men feeding her bullshit. Absolutely anyone in her position would have made the same mistake. And she learned from that mistake: she took what she needed from N'Zoth and then planned to get rid of him.

And when the people who weren't deceived by yes-men (alongside pretty much every Wild God and uncorrupted dragon under the sun) started killing the hordes of demons who heralded the coming of the gigantic dude who wants to molest our planet, she turned against them and remained steadfast to Sargeras until the very end. You can hardly claimed she was ignorant of the going-ons when it was her and her Highborne loyalist alongside a demon army against literally everyone else.

Just stop spinning this shit. Being easily deceived doesn't magically make you innocent. It's not a defense for the Orcs who fell for the transparently evil Gul'dan's ploy, it's not a defense for Azshara. She doesn't need to be whitewashed in such a way to be an enjoyable character.

[Temp1on2]

My theory is that Azshara had no choice but to help the Legion, because she knew she couldn't beat Sargeras and the world was too young to help the Night Elves. For her people's survival she accepted the pact with N'zoth. Her attacks on Azeroth were done to make us stronger, they were never big enough to wipe us out. Several Naga helped the Illidari and the Blood Elves. Azshara has an agenda to help the enemy and then at some point stab them in the back.

But this isn't what the lore says at all, what you're describing is what Elisande did.

Azshara deliberately facilitated the summoning of the Legion into the world. There hasn't been any suggesting that a full scale Legion invasion would, or could, have taken place without Azshara, and the highborne under her command, initially summoning their commanders.

Azshara wanted the Legion to come, it wasn't an alliance of convenience.

[Goradan]

Almost everything you pointed could be the same case with Hitler.



He did read a lot of books.



He has become the head of the third Reich.



To a some extent? Yup.



In the eyes of german people? For sure.



He cared for his people.



Of course.


Bonus round: he cared for animals.


Only deeds tells if someone is terrible or not, your examples are wrong. You only pointed a person traits, not if he is terrible or not.
You can have all of those traits and still be a terrible person.

Well fucking said.

[Temp1on2]

And when the people who weren't deceived by yes-men (alongside pretty much every Wild God and uncorrupted dragon under the sun) started killing the hordes of demons who heralded the coming of the gigantic dude who wants to molest our planet, she turned against them and remained steadfast to Sargeras until the very end. You can hardly claimed she was ignorant of the going-ons when it was her and her Highborne loyalist alongside a demon army against literally everyone else.

Just stop spinning this shit. Being easily deceived doesn't magically make you innocent. It's not a defense for the Orcs who fell for the transparently evil Gul'dan's ploy, it's not a defense for Azshara. She doesn't need to be whitewashed in such a way to be an enjoyable character.

I'd also argue that Azshara didn't care what Sargeras was (as evidenced by her quickness to ally herself with N'Zoth) she wanted power at any cost. There's every indication that even had she known Sargeras wanted to utterly obliterate the planet she'd have still agreed provided she would gain more power and, obviously, survive.

[Life-Binder]

>people actually trying to make excuses for Azshara

and then those same ppl dare to call Blizz writing shit (which it is, but thats beside the point)

[Kithelle]

Shouldn't this thread be names "Things I *think* about Azshara and Tyrande hate thread."?

[JoshuaNLG]

Azshara cared for her people in the same vein that a dictator would care about his subjects, what use is power if you have no one to rule?

[matrix123mko]

Pretty sure it's this. Sylvanas is so infuriatingly arrogant (considering all her power is borrowed) that she probably didn't think it was worth the effort to kill Bolvar.

Which is stupid, as she gains more power for each kill.

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Azshara cared for her people in the same vein that a dictator would care about his subjects, what use is power if you have no one to rule?

That's why dictatorship is good. Democratic "rulers" don't care as they are there for five minutes and their goal is just to steal money and run away.