How did pvp gearing get this bad?

[Kralljin]

Naw, buying a full kit off a vendor was dumb and they finally admitted it was dumb and removed it. fuck around in 2's for a couple games and get a raid il weapon, good design.

The only time where PvP weapons were actually on par with Raid weapons was TBC and there it took a quite a lot of weeks to get all those Arena points.
There were also some decent weapons in Wotlk but those required like 2k rating or some shit.

Afaik, the two handed weapons did cost like 3,75k and if you were just doing 10 games per week in 2v2, you got like ~300 points.
So we're talking here about getting nothing out of it for 10+ weeks straight.

After that, the PvP weapons were worse than their PvE counterparts but did have a bunch of Resilience / PvP Power as compensation.

[123youshowme]

The only time where PvP weapons were actually on par with Raid weapons was TBC and there it took a quite a lot of weeks to get all those Arena points.
There were also some decent weapons in Wotlk but those required like 2k rating or some shit.

Afaik, the two handed weapons did cost like 3,75k and if you were just doing 10 games per week in 2v2, you got like ~300 points.
So we're talking here about getting nothing out of it for 10+ weeks straight.

After that, the PvP weapons were worse than their PvE counterparts but did have a bunch of Resilience / PvP Power as compensation.

Nah, they were identical to normal mode weapons in BWD/Bastion (strength+stam), and you got them in like 2 weeks of play. I know, I did it.

Same with WoD, the weapons were between highmaul heroic and normal. I can't speak for cata cus I brain bleached that expansion, but you could do that in the 2 expansions surrounding it.

[Firatha]

The only time where PvP weapons were actually on par with Raid weapons was TBC and there it took a quite a lot of weeks to get all those Arena points.
There were also some decent weapons in Wotlk but those required like 2k rating or some shit.

Afaik, the two handed weapons did cost like 3,75k and if you were just doing 10 games per week in 2v2, you got like ~300 points.
So we're talking here about getting nothing out of it for 10+ weeks straight.

After that, the PvP weapons were worse than their PvE counterparts but did have a bunch of Resilience / PvP Power as compensation.

Ya in TBC nearly all raiding rogues did pvp for swords every season then in Wrath they were on par weapon dps wise with raiding weapons but needed 2200 so not a lot could get them like they did in BC.

[Kralljin]

Nah, they were identical to normal mode weapons in BWD/Bastion (strength+stam), and you got them in like 2 weeks of play. I know, I did it.

Was only during the first season.

Same with WoD, the weapons were between highmaul heroic and normal. I can't speak for cata cus I brain bleached that expansion, but you could do that in the 2 expansions surrounding it.

Again, only the first season and that Ilvl in Highmaul were kinda fucked up, because Highmaul was supposed to be one tier with BRF but then Blizz just decided midway that it actually isn't.

So yeah, more of an exception than a rule.

[123youshowme]

Was only during the first season.



Again, only the first season and that Ilvl in Highmaul were kinda fucked up, because Highmaul was supposed to be one tier with BRF but then Blizz just decided midway that it actually isn't.

So yeah, more of an exception than a rule.

So you had
TBC season 1-2
Wotlk seasons
Cata season 1
_________
Wod season 1

seems like it's more the rule than the exception

Lol i dunno why the pvpers can't just come out and say they want their free full set of gear, like fam it aint that deep.
All of the meandering they do to just come back around and say that "they liked when they could easily get extremely good gear for minimal effort"

[Zeusy]

In dragonsoul you had the proc dps trinkets for rogues, and the daggers. so yea, pve gear was still v good. Gurthalak was good too

- - - Updated - - -



people don't remember s1-s2 and why they put rating on pvp weapons several times

- - - Updated - - -



Naw, buying a full kit off a vendor was dumb and they finally admitted it was dumb and removed it. fuck around in 2's for a couple games and get a raid il weapon, good design.

yea which is why i mentioned prior to DS. I liked beginning of Cata up until DS weps/trinkets ran rampart.

[Kralljin]

seems like it's more the rule than the exception

Counting Wotlk seasons is BS.
The good weapons required high rating, so that was offlimits for most people already, or even getting them early on into a season before you could get equivalent PvE weapons.
And those Arena points during Wotlk still had to come from somewhere, same goes for TBC, it's not like you did 10 Arena games each week and get all those weapons after two weeks.

And by the way, the last Season of WoD was Season 18, so having four seasons as opposed to 14 still seems more the exception than the rule.

[123youshowme]

Counting Wotlk seasons is BS.
The good weapons required high rating, so that was offlimits for most people already, or even getting them early on into a season before you could get equivalent PvE weapons.
And those Arena points during Wotlk still had to come from somewhere, same goes for TBC, it's not like you did 10 Arena games each week and get all those weapons after two weeks.

And by the way, the last Season of WoD was Season 18, so having four seasons as opposed to 14 still seems more the exception than the rule.

IIRC s1 wotlk weapons were still above 10man naxx level, so, why exactly is it bullshit?
Wasn't the normal ulduar season weapon 232 (same as raid) and the high rating 239 or something like that? It holds true.

And just so the point drives home, pvp weapons were competitive in every raid tier except the tiers where a legendary was present, up to WoTLK.

And guess what, weapons matter the most in the early tiers. I could go back and show you that the pvp weapons have been equivalent to or greater than normal mode raid weapons in almost every tier but there's no point in doing that, really.

[Kralljin]

IIRC s1 wotlk weapons were still above 10man naxx level, so, why exactly is it bullshit?

Considering those weapons did cost Arena points and thus weren't available until multiple weeks into the season, i'd say it's bullshit.
By that time, you cleared Naxx multiple times and presumably got an equivalent weapon, especially because the entirety of Naxx was puggable, both 10 and 25 man.

Wasn't the normal ulduar season weapon 232 (same as raid) and the high rating 239 or something like that? It holds true.

Even the normal ones required 1,8k Rating, which was a pain if you didn't have an equivalent weapon to begin with if you weren't a really amazing Player.

Those "highrated" ones required 2,35k rating.
How many people get that during the first week(s) of a season? Even during extremely rating inflated season, that's absolutely out of reach for most players.
Such a rating was out of reach even across an entire season for most people.

So yeah, your claim that one could just "fuck around in 2's for a couple games and get a raid il weapon, good design." doesn't work here.
Let alone that those weapons weren't even on par with PvE weapons because they had Resilience on them.

[123youshowme]

Considering those weapons did cost Arena points and thus weren't available until multiple weeks into the season, i'd say it's bullshit.
By that time, you cleared Naxx multiple times and presumably got an equivalent weapon, especially because the entirety of Naxx was puggable, both 10 and 25 man.



Even the normal ones required 1,8k Rating, which was a pain if you didn't have an equivalent weapon to begin with if you weren't a really amazing Player.

Those "highrated" ones required 2,35k rating.
How many people get that during the first week(s) of a season? Even during extremely rating inflated season, that's absolutely out of reach for most players.
Such a rating was out of reach even across an entire season for most people.

So yeah, your claim that one could just "fuck around in 2's for a couple games and get a raid il weapon, good design." doesn't work here.
Let alone that those weapons weren't even on par with PvE weapons because they had Resilience on them.

I like how you make it sound like weapons just rained from the sky.
It's wasn't the era of M+

and, whether or not you want to accept it, because they were resil and AP..... and weapon damage, they were usable.

[Osmeric]

In the first season of WotLK, all PvP gear, even honor gear, with the exception of libram slot items and Wintergrasp gear, had minimum personal rating requirements.

Not coincidentally, PvP participation collapsed outside Wintergrasp. Not only were they forced to remove rating requirements on honor gear, they had to redo the rating algorithm itself.

[Palapop]

F*ck the idiot who decided to remove pvp/pve vendors. And bring rng f*ck-fest into wow gearing.

We have 0 control over our chars. Progress and everything.

RNG M+ chests, rng M+ key....

rng pvp arena win, rng pvp (r)bg win, rng pvp weekly chests, rng pvp quest reward...

RETARDED!

[Theangryone]

They just want to frustrate dual weilding classes.

[Kralljin]

I like how you make it sound like weapons just rained from the sky.
It's wasn't the era of M+

If you get like ~300 Arena points per week, that would still be ~12 weeks of waiting for a two handed weapon.

And I'd say it is entirely possible to earn a equivalent PvE weapon within three months.

[op3l]

Remember when PvP was fun in classic? Like you'd grind for gear in PvE and PvP and they're basically the same? Like the PvE focused player would do a bit more DPS but have less health than the PvP gear. But both have fun because one had slightly more HP to last the initial burst, but the other can basically burst down their enemies super fast but have lower hp?

Then in TBC blizzard wanted to push e-sports with the Arena thing and added resilience. This one stat basically ruined wow PvP imo. It turned it from a fun thing to do on the side to a full time grind in a completely different avenue. Now you had to choose which side you want to pursue and while it made players play longer, it took away the innocence that was wow PVP. Sad thing is WoW pvp never really took off as an e-sport as people found it very unexciting to watch a group of players jump around a pole.

[123youshowme]

Remember when PvP was fun in classic? Like you'd grind for gear in PvE and PvP and they're basically the same? Like the PvE focused player would do a bit more DPS but have less health than the PvP gear. But both have fun because one had slightly more HP to last the initial burst, but the other can basically burst down their enemies super fast but have lower hp?

Then in TBC blizzard wanted to push e-sports with the Arena thing and added resilience. This one stat basically ruined wow PvP imo. It turned it from a fun thing to do on the side to a full time grind in a completely different avenue. Now you had to choose which side you want to pursue and while it made players play longer, it took away the innocence that was wow PVP. Sad thing is WoW pvp never really took off as an e-sport as people found it very unexciting to watch a group of players jump around a pole.

They added resil because in aq gear people ran around and oneshot each other and kids complained

- - - Updated - - -

If you get like ~300 Arena points per week, that would still be ~12 weeks of waiting for a two handed weapon.

And I'd say it is entirely possible to earn a equivalent PvE weapon within three months.

making assumptions on a drop versus just toughing it out, wonder what people generally did, i reckon?

Lol but go on head and play ignorant

- - - Updated - - -

F*ck the idiot who decided to remove pvp/pve vendors. And bring rng f*ck-fest into wow gearing.

We have 0 control over our chars. Progress and everything.

RNG M+ chests, rng M+ key....

rng pvp arena win, rng pvp (r)bg win, rng pvp weekly chests, rng pvp quest reward...

RETARDED!

you can 100% plot out a gear set at 430 itemlevel and go get it.

[Kralljin]

making assumptions on a drop versus just toughing it out, wonder what people generally did, i reckon?

Lol but go on head and play ignorant

If you walked around in Wotlk without getting a single weapon for three months straight despite doing the current raid each week, you are incredibly unlucky.
In Wotlk, you already got like 4-5 items per boss in 25man, this is not Vanilla where you just had 2-3 items on 40 people.

Even then, most people didn't jumped into Arena and just pulled off a 2,3k rating out of nowhere, for that sort of you rating, you were getting carried or you were already a dedicated PvP'er to begin with.

Stop pretending everybody and their mother in Wotlk did Arena in order to get a weapon, that's just not how it was.
Even 1,8k was out of reach for most people, that was the minimum for getting the regular current season weapons.

[123youshowme]

If you walked around in Wotlk without getting a single weapon for three months straight despite doing the current raid each week, you are incredibly unlucky.
In Wotlk, you already got like 4-5 items per boss in 25man, this is not Vanilla where you just had 2-3 items on 40 people.

Even then, most people didn't jumped into Arena and just pulled off a 2,3k rating out of nowhere, for that sort of you rating, you were getting carried or you were already a dedicated PvP'er to begin with.

Stop pretending everybody and their mother in Wotlk did Arena in order to get a weapon, that's just not how it was.
Even 1,8k was out of reach for most people, that was the minimum for getting the regular current season weapons.

Okay, but you do also forget that 1) ulduar had one of the lowest participation rates of any current content raid, and that most people kinda just had squat until ICC 5mans came out. You were either a fairly successful raider or you used an icc25 weapon until toc. You don't remember how big a 232 from a 5man was? How people grinded the everliving fuck out of the 3 icc 5mans for drops?

You could very well go 6+ weeks without a weapon. There was no M+

[Kralljin]

Okay, but you do also forget that 1) ulduar had one of the lowest participation rates of any current content raid, and that most people kinda just had squat until ICC 5mans came out.

ToC was also entirely Pugable, both 10 and 25 mode.
Which dropped 232 and 245, which is equivalent or superior to Ulduar weapons.

And by the way, Ulduar as current tier lasted merely four months.
I don't think that sort of people that avoided Ulduar entirely were that good to just get 1,8k in Arena.

Because even the first bosses in Ulduar 25man were also pugable and guess what, they dropped weapons.

How people grinded the everliving fuck out of the 3 icc 5mans for drops?

I think those people avoided raiding entirely for a variety of reasons.
No matter what argument you pull, the fact that those weapons did cost Arena points and those being rather difficult to get defeats any argument.

Because if you saved for a weapon for multiple weeks, that meant also no Set items for multiple weeks.

Get this, your argument that people were just getting free Raid weapons out of PvP just wasn't true, due to their cost it took time and due to their rating requirement also skill, so one just didn't hop into a Arena and got some free weapons out of it for participation.

[123youshowme]

ToC was also entirely Pugable, both 10 and 25 mode.
Which dropped 232 and 245, which is equivalent or superior to Ulduar weapons.

And by the way, Ulduar as current tier lasted merely four months.
I don't think that sort of people that avoided Ulduar entirely were that good to just get 1,8k in Arena.

Because even the first bosses in Ulduar 25man were also pugable and guess what, they dropped weapons.



I think those people avoided raiding entirely for a variety of reasons.
No matter what argument you pull, the fact that those weapons did cost Arena points and those being rather difficult to get defeats any argument.

Because if you saved for a weapon for multiple weeks, that meant also no Set items for multiple weeks.

Get this, your argument that people were just getting free Raid weapons out of PvP just wasn't true, due to their cost it took time and due to their rating requirement also skill, so one just didn't hop into a Arena and got some free weapons out of it for participation.

There's no 2hander off flame leviathan
And again, dunno what backwater you were on, but during uldur/toc there were tons of people with pvp weapons.

Faction champs was "puggable" as in, you could, in theory, kill that boss. But maybe in a ventrilo food+flask pug. Remember back then there were no flex lockouts so if you joined and it disbanded you were sol. People *did* have the weapons from the argent qm and from the 5man version of the dungeon, though.

Pugging raids? Maybe if you were on illidan.


I dunno if you forgot but you could buy previous season's weapons, if your rating was bad.