Does anyone else feel the game becoming like a job?

[123youshowme]

> E)
Did you compare raiding from retail with classic? The only overlaping there is, is from the LFR/N "raiders" who simply dont have time or lack of attention span for real raiding.

> F)
LOL

> G)
Its a simple ACTION->REACTION from LEGION to BFA.

[only a few good class specific LEGENDARYS] -> [more class specific choices AZERITE]
[cooldown spam macros / into trinkets] -> [GCD for everything, to slow some stupid burst down]

Islands and warfronts were announced as the CASUAL FEATURES just like the new TOWER is for shadowlands. If you want a challenge there is endless M+, endless ARENA and pretty high end mythic raiding for you.

If you have fun in classic thats great. Not sure why you even bother with retail WoWs "ISSUES", since you dont seem to bother with the reasons WHY some of the BFA changes had to done.

mmo champ users are unable to think critically.

I blame the schools

[Doctor Funkenstein]

Yes, and it started all the way back in TBC. At least until this expansion, the tedium was worth it for the fun of hanging out with friends. But it's gotten way the fuck out of control and only looks to be getting worse in Shadowlands.

[Ticj]

it's because you made up your mind that you were going to like it before you played.
That's the story of most of y'all on here.

Lol I leveled all the way to 60 and had a good time throughout only because I made it up in my mind?

BfA is the most boring expansion I have played. I say that as someone who has been playing continuously since TBC and have cleared every single raid in BfA on at least Heroic difficulty.

[Raugnaut]

No one asked for taxes. but they are needed.
The GCD change was needed to stop stuff like the 1 hit kill macro
"Press 1 button, both trinkets and 4 dps cooldowns all used at once then you press 1 spell"

Like the GCD change literally effected nothing but dps cooldowns really.

Yes, but that single change made the very act of pressing cooldowns clunky and unenjoyable. Not to mention that Blizz basically reduced virtually every spec down to a single CD rather then the previous 2-3 that most of them had. You also HAVE to disassociate your trinket with your major cooldown by whatever your GCD is now, rather then being able to use both at once (Using trinket in the same GCD as your CD results in less damage, since that GCD does nothing but pop your CD. Save it for the next).

Overall, a completely stupid change. Even more so when you consider that for tanks, a number of their ACTIVE mitigation abilities are now on the GCD. What even..

GCD change is proof that the current class design team doesn't even play their game.

[Beefkow]

No one asked for taxes. but they are needed.
The GCD change was needed to stop stuff like the 1 hit kill macro
"Press 1 button, both trinkets and 4 dps cooldowns all used at once then you press 1 spell"

Like the GCD change literally effected nothing but dps cooldowns really.

I mean it made sense when it came to offensive cooldowns, wasn't fun getting 1 shotted and blown up.

But when you put it on defensives, utility, and mobility, now that's just messed up.

[123youshowme]

Lol I leveled all the way to 60 and had a good time throughout only because I made it up in my mind?

BfA is the most boring expansion I have played. I say that as someone who has been playing continuously since TBC and have cleared every single raid in BfA on at least Heroic difficulty.

You're foreign to the idea of confirmation bias, I take it.

Not surprising.

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I mean it made sense when it came to offensive cooldowns, wasn't fun getting 1 shotted and blown up.

But when you put it on defensives, utility, and mobility, now that's just messed up.

9/10 defensives aren't on the gcd.

The only ones that are are generally paladin/priest bubbles and ice block. Which kinda need to be on the gcd.

But, you know, who cares about the truth

[Linuriel]

MMOs are always like this.

[123youshowme]

Yes, but that single change made the very act of pressing cooldowns clunky and unenjoyable. Not to mention that Blizz basically reduced virtually every spec down to a single CD rather then the previous 2-3 that most of them had. You also HAVE to disassociate your trinket with your major cooldown by whatever your GCD is now, rather then being able to use both at once (Using trinket in the same GCD as your CD results in less damage, since that GCD does nothing but pop your CD. Save it for the next).

Overall, a completely stupid change. Even more so when you consider that for tanks, a number of their ACTIVE mitigation abilities are now on the GCD. What even..

GCD change is proof that the current class design team doesn't even play their game.

Trinkets aren't on the gcd either. More proof that you don't play the game.
You can still macro a trinket to a cd.

What you can't do is macro a trinket, an ability, AND a dps cooldown at the same time.

No more lulswiftyoneshotmacro for you, adapt or quit

[HoodKazekage]

If you wanna phrase is like that you could also say that you are choosing to stay at your job while there are other jobs with equal or better pay that you could go to

[Raugnaut]

Trinkets aren't on the gcd either. More proof that you don't play the game.
You can still macro a trinket to a cd.

What you can't do is macro a trinket, an ability, AND a dps cooldown at the same time.

No more lulswiftyoneshotmacro for you, adapt or quit

Can you even read?

Because of the fact that cooldowns ARE on the GCD, but trinkets aren't, you now have to time trinkets so that you use them the following GCD after popping a cooldown. NOT with the cooldown, because that GCD will have no damage attached to it. Thus, anyone who now has a macro that does cooldown AND trinket at the same time is doing it wrong, since you are wasting anywhere from .75 seconds (Outlaw Rogue) to 1.5 seconds (Most everybody else) or more of your trinket.

In addition, because blizz didn't rebalanced CDs with the GCD change in mind, all CDs are now essentially shorter then before.

Finally, the whole "LOL RECKT MACRO" doesn't even apply anymore, because Blizz has limited the number of CDs for nearly EVERY single spec in the game to just 1. 1 single damage CD. Only ~4 or so specs have more then 1 major damage CD now.

[123youshowme]

Can you even read?

Because of the fact that cooldowns ARE on the GCD, but trinkets aren't, you now have to time trinkets so that you use them the following GCD after popping a cooldown. NOT with the cooldown, because that GCD will have no damage attached to it. Thus, anyone who now has a macro that does cooldown AND trinket at the same time is doing it wrong, since you are wasting anywhere from .75 seconds (Outlaw Rogue) to 1.5 seconds (Most everybody else) or more of your trinket.

In addition, because blizz didn't rebalanced CDs with the GCD change in mind, all CDs are now essentially shorter then before.

Finally, the whole "LOL RECKT MACRO" doesn't even apply anymore, because Blizz has limited the number of CDs for nearly EVERY single spec in the game to just 1. 1 single spec. Only ~4 or so specs have more then 1 major damage CD now.

that's the whole fucking point, to diminish burst.

But I guess that went over your head.

[FelPlague]

I mean it made sense when it came to offensive cooldowns, wasn't fun getting 1 shotted and blown up.

But when you put it on defensives, utility, and mobility, now that's just messed up.

Most of those arnt on the gcd...

[Kuja]

Not a job, but too repetitive.

[Elias01]

Not a job, but too repetitive.

Mmos are repetitive. There is no company in the world what can create enought content for entire 2y withtout repetitive tasks. Hell most games have barely 5 hours of gametime and mmorpg is there for 2y befor new big expansion.

[Elias01]

Here we go again...account wide essences. Wth guys.

My paladin just got to 120, I can only equip one essence and already got 3 available to equip.

Just play the dam game or go play something else till the next expansion.

They dont want to. They just want to spam mythic+ all day and raid once a week. Someone would say that those people play wrong type of game. People been asking for noninstanced progression for ages.

[Donatello Trumpi]

They dont want to. They just want to spam mythic+ all day and raid once a week. Someone would say that those people play wrong type of game.

Whats wrong with raid logging or playing alts competetively without having to complete chore-ish bullshit?

I dont want to chase carrots like azerite or grind my brains out for essences to stay competetive. Its a fucking game but for some addicts its "occupational therapy" instead who feel the need to log in every day.


I want to enjoy content on my terms, not be activisions monthly-active-users bolstering bitch.

[123youshowme]

Whats wrong with raid logging or playing alts competetively without having to complete chore-ish bullshit?

I dont want to chase carrots like azerite or grind my brains out for essences to stay competetive. Its a fucking game but for some addicts its "occupational therapy" instead who feel the need to log in every day.


I want to enjoy content on my terms, not be activisions monthly-active-users bolstering bitch.

you can do just fine with raid essence, m+ essence and crucible of flame, if you dont want to farm

[Alydael]

Which can easily be contributed to several factors, none of which are "raiding is less popular".
A) BfA has lost a metric fuckload of players. I'd be shocked if the playerbase is at 50% of what it was in Legion.
B) Raids are harder, leading to lower overall clear percentages. Too hard, I would argue (particularly with end bosses like Jaina and Azshara).
C) The amount of busywork nonsense you need to complete to be a competitive raider has never been higher, not even in Vanilla with world buffs and stacking consumables.
D) Mythic+ has eaten into the raiding community significantly because it's faster, easier, more rewarding, and requires less effort overall. Without tier sets, there is not really any specific incentive to raid, considering how grueling progression raiding can be now.

I personally think (C) is the largest contributor, followed by (A) and (D).

A) The amount of players lost doesn't matter in those stats, they go by percentage of people that are playing that have completed the raid.
B) I would say raids are easier or the same. I don't do mythics but heroic was fairly easy in the BfA raids. Also, it looks like Mythic was cleared fairly quickly as well, so not sure where you are getting the "harder" thing from.
C) I disagree completely- in Vanilla and BC there was much more leg work between raids to be prepped. Now- one stop by the ah and you are basically ready to go. Gearing is easier with the WQ and benthic gear as well.
D) I would agree with you on this. I know some raiders that basically barely raid anymore and just do mythics.

I only post on what has been my experience, I can't speak for other people. This also probably varies by individual as well. In my circle- raiding is way less popular. The raiders are still playing and spending roughly the same amount of time- they just aren't raiding anymore.

What supports this view, outside of my circle and personal experience is the raid completion percentages. You can debate the reasons, but not the numbers. The fact then remains that Blizz is spending most of its dev time on content that not very many people are completing anymore. That's not a recipe for a successful game. You need to be putting your dev time in the content most people are completing, in order to make the game more engaging for "most people."

I still raid and I don't want them to stop making the raids. I just don't think the raids should be the primary end game focus anymore. I think the completion percentages show that they have lost the "top spot," as it were.
D)

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The question should never be: "Why is WoW losing players?" WoW has been losing players since Vanilla and there are so many different reasons people quit the game that it's almost pointless to try to quantify it. (Not to mention Blizzard will never release any of their internal player metrics.) The better question is: "What can WoW do to retain its current customers?" And when you frame it like that, it's obvious why Blizzard keeps raiding around. There are four difficulty levels for Christ's sake. Removing or further sanitizing raiding so it more closely resembles other "more popular" games will serve only to alienate the current players who are sticking around for the current design while simultaneously providing nothing unique to fill the void. It's much better to let WoW continue to occupy the extremely niche space it has etched out as it currently has almost no competition than it is to tell the developers to reinvent the wheel in a vain effort to make the game even more accessible.

I never said to remove raids. I still raid and hope they keep making them. If you look at my end game plan- there is a raid set in there. I also agree that the questions should be "how do we keep players?" You keep players by investing in the content that most players are completing. The completion percentages show that that isn't raiding anymore. This expansion has the lowest completion percentages on those raids, the majority of players just aren't doing them anymore. I think Blizz should keep them- they just shouldn't be the primary end game focus anymore- the completion numbers demonstrate that.

[Azerox]

Ah yes the moment you start to become burn-out of the game.

Do something else for a while, it won't go anywhere.

[Ange]

The completion percentages show that that isn't raiding anymore. This expansion has the lowest completion percentages on those raids, the majority of players just aren't doing them anymore. I think Blizz should keep them- they just shouldn't be the primary end game focus anymore- the completion numbers demonstrate that.

Bullshit.

You know very well that the difficulty in mythic raiding since LEGION went UP. Individual fails lead to wipes allready on heroic difficulty and mythic raiding got much more demanding. At the end of the raid tier, you can not allways recover from 1/20 dead player on many boss fights.

Thats insane compared to the past, where you could SELL BOOST spots for 1/4 of your raid size.

Mythic raiding is simply harder, there are no massive content nerfs, no massive passive boosts, there is only ilvl gains with the still personal fail mechanics in place you cant escape.

M+ is only the safety net for the casual raiders, all those stuck on 4/8M, otherwise they would have quit the game till next raid tier. Thats why you have so different opinions about tier sets from "RAIDERS". A progression raider does not mind the free gearadvantage with tier sets, while the casual raiders are more than happy with the current situation.

If you min-max raiding/pvp/m+/worldcontent you get a great character progression out of BfA, it cost a bit advantage for the mono-content players, but who cares about minorities?