I understand WHY people love TBC, but....

[deepr]

TBC was mostly a fine expansion from what I remember.
Except I hated the look of most of the zones and instances. Very bland in graphics and design. Nagrand wasn't all that special either. Most of the music was mediocre as well. In these aspects, both Vanilla and all the other expansions are way better (ok, some classic zones are pretty lame).
No really, TBC's graphics design was lame and worse than Vanilla. WotLK and all the others were a huge improvement.

[lockybalboa]

TBC is a shite show compared to WoD and BFA

[Thelyron]

Dear Diary,

today is the 26th of december, in the year of our lord 2019. There are still people that think that pvp matters. This makes me sad.

[Outofmana]

Because private servers, no matter how good they are... they’re still shit. Even Nostalrius had GMs that abused their powers, but a bigger reason why private servers never reach massive monthly players is that they’re private servers with no protection for your characters.

Nonsense as that didn't stop private vanilla servers from having healthy population. You responded to a reason why TBC servers didn't manage to attain the same playerbase with irrelevant ranting about pvt servers. Any TBC that was tried, even on platforms already having a rather healthy vanilla population, died within a month or two because everyone quit by the droves somehow. I personally did a Karazhan and was like, whatever and quit again and I cannot really point out why exactly, as I could continue to play vanilla easily.

TBC is mostly mindless mote-farming and I think doesn't have the 'relaxxing' 5man style of vanilla where you get drunk, put on some music and just have some fun in a stratUD, or even a Zul'Gurrub PUG later on, TBC was already more performance driven, and we know what in the end you get when you go further and further in that direction (mythic raids, m+ timed 5mans in bfa, blehhhh).

[cparle87]

You seriously think they were more viable for pvp?

Neither I nor the person I have been quoting have been talking about pvp, I've said this to someone else who has quoted me in this thread. The guy I quoted stated that his opinion was that WoW was always centered around raiding, from day one. I argued that seemed unlikely to me since they didn't bother to make even half the specs raid viable at the start.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Nonsense as that didn't stop private vanilla servers from having healthy population.

Healthy compared to what? Nostalrius at it's peak didn't have more than 30k different IPs logged, yes that's obviously a lot for a single server but it's not a lot compared to the million+ people who are currently playing Classic.

[Heathy]

I raided upto illidan and i liked tbc, it was better than classic and world pvp was killed by the battlegrounds, like others have said it wasn't that great anyway and never has been. the objectives and the buff you gained from holding them in tbc was something, the towers in the epl and the capture the lump of sand or whatever the hell that was in silithus was basically the same but didn't come in until late classic?

I play on pve I've always played a priest so i did not like pvp, it was not fun as a healer. as a rogue it was fun, but not as a priest.

there was lots to like about tbc, 10 mans were fun, heroics kept 5 mans alive for a while, the only thing that really stood out to me was that we did vashj and kael before going to BT and MH, well those 2 were wipe fests, but after doing them, both bt and mh felt real easy in comparison it didn't feel like a new tier, like going from t4 to t5 was noticeable but not from t5 to most of t6, archimond was a bitch because noone could die which was interesting, illdan was nerfed by the time i did him so he lost most of his bite. I didn't get to do sunwell only raided 3 days a week. tbc was probably my hay day, did a bit of raiding with some old friends in legion, but tbc was the last time I did structured organised raiding in a semi-hardcore way. i've been a casual mostly since then.

I think it was better mostly because my talent trees were just better in tbc, disc and holy had a bit more focus to them and there was a bit more interesting hybrid potential, not to mention we got prayer of mending in tbc so, thats always been a nice addition to our heals. I don't think we got penance or atonement until wrath so, my class didn't really get its full spec identity until then. disc and holy have always been pretty samey up until atonement became a thing.

[Hinastorm]

WoW is a PvE game, with pvp tacked on. People seem to need to be reminded of this often.

[Erous]

BC brings more tank options as well. OP AOE Pally tanks, and beast bear druids help smooth out the lack of Warr tanks,

[Sinyc]

Flying did not destroy world pvp. If you actually played tbc and went out of shattrath you'd know there were pretty good battles in nagrand, hellfire and terokkar at the objectives and at the daily hubs.

How exactly was mindleslly farming mobs better than dailies? Which ilone is more zombir like?

And by no means did you always have something to do in vanilla, not anymore than tbc anyway. Unless you were a high rank tryhard. But then you had the conqueror/justicar titles which also took a really good time of mindleslly spamming bgs

I am 100% sure that OP did NOT play Burning Crusade, and is overall terrible at WoW.

TBC is a VERY good PVE game and sucks at everything else.

Wrong

[Spotnick]

What would force you to play BC exactly?

Just stay on Vanilla servers and let us enjoy BC servers.

[kail]

Say no to tbc servers, classic+ is way to go

NJ bumping your thread.

[Relapses]

Healthy compared to what? Nostalrius at it's peak didn't have more than 30k different IPs logged, yes that's obviously a lot for a single server but it's not a lot compared to the million+ people who are currently playing Classic.

Got a source on that figure?

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Got a source on that figure?

http://vanillaradar.com/elysium-stats/ (old data)
https://elysium-project.org/main/stat (new realms opened in November- they peaked on just under 6k players on two realms.


Vanilla players, for the most part) migrated over to official Classic. But in total there maybe were 200k people playing private Vanilla servers on and off, these have been joined by many many more who didn’t play private servers. The same wave of players would very likely join for TBC as they did for Classic.
It’s not the case that Classic is only played by private server people, private server players are the minority- FACT.
TBC had many more players than Vanilla did, the reasonable event is that TBC re-launch would be just as popular as Classic has been- if not more popular.
The same would arguably be the case for Wrath of the Lich King, as that was also immensly popular.

I get Classic/Vannila fanboi-ism, I really do. But don’t pretend that it’s a perfect game or the best game of the series... because it’s not!

[TheValkyrie]

Classic+ is called retail and retail is trash. I want TBC.

[Zarator8]

If tbc is so good (it isnt) how come every single private server in past 5 years failed to hold healthy endgame population after 2 months of release?

People try it and realize that tbc is bad and nothing but nostalgia ( and dont say scripting cuz in fact tbc scripting is superior to vanilla servers) while vanilla is popular and people cant stop playing it.

Nonsense as that didn't stop private vanilla servers from having healthy population. You responded to a reason why TBC servers didn't manage to attain the same playerbase with irrelevant ranting about pvt servers. Any TBC that was tried, even on platforms already having a rather healthy vanilla population, died within a month or two because everyone quit by the droves somehow. I personally did a Karazhan and was like, whatever and quit again and I cannot really point out why exactly, as I could continue to play vanilla easily.

TBC is mostly mindless mote-farming and I think doesn't have the 'relaxxing' 5man style of vanilla where you get drunk, put on some music and just have some fun in a stratUD, or even a Zul'Gurrub PUG later on, TBC was already more performance driven, and we know what in the end you get when you go further and further in that direction (mythic raids, m+ timed 5mans in bfa, blehhhh).

By your logic, how could it happen that Classic PvE servers are alive and thriving? On the pserver scene, they tended to die quite damn fast, and never had the level of population we're seeing nowadays on the likes of Pyrewood Village, Mirage Raceway, or their US counterparts.

The thing is, pserver players are VERY different from official players. They tend to be more competitively-driven, more PvP focused and in general more tryhard. The only place on Classic where you could expect to find an environment like that are the more competitive PvP servers like Gehennas, Firemaw, or Herod. That's part of why it makes me smile when I read posts complaining about stuff like elitism, ppl always looking only for spellcleave groups etc. It's like you guys have never checked a PvE server on Classic... or even the less populated PvP servers.

To answer your question more precisely, TBC pservers tend to die because, without custom systems etc., the racial unbalance tends to become unbearable and this kills wPvP/BGs - which, to the pserver crowd, is basically the only endgame worth playing. And, once you start employing custom mechanics such as giving Alliance bonuses, you begin alienate a bigger and bigger crowd until you end up being just a niche product.

A Classic TBC however would be a whole different story. Yes, we would still have many Flamelash scenarios... but we also would have many situations such as Hydraxian Waterlords, where the Horde is by far a minority on the server but still thrives because it's a PvE server. And given the debacle WPvP was in Classic for many people, I'd expect a LOT less PvP servers to open up if/when TBC launches, and a lot more PvE servers to fill the gap. And even on the PvP server side, sure a few might meet the same fate as Shazzrah or Flamelash, but I'd bet whatever you want that we would also have at least one Mograine or Ashbringer with more balanced numbers.

In conclusion, even with a few casualties among PvP servers, the few balanced PvP servers surviving and the rest of PvE servers would be more than enough to keep TBC alive. Maybe not to the same numbers we've seen at Classic launch, but certainly far above what we've seen on TBC pservers.

Besides, even if BGs had excessively long queues, in TBC you can still queue for arenas against your own faction, so PvP isn't as impossible as it would be on Classic under the same conditions. Sure, getting those PvP offset items would be more daunting, but that's about it.

[karrad]

Isle of Quel'Danas solves the whole flying ruins pvp thing

[Whoopax]

By your logic, how could it happen that Classic PvE servers are alive and thriving? On the pserver scene, they tended to die quite damn fast, and never had the level of population we're seeing nowadays on the likes of Pyrewood Village, Mirage Raceway, or their US counterparts.

The thing is, pserver players are VERY different from official players. They tend to be more competitively-driven, more PvP focused and in general more tryhard. The only place on Classic where you could expect to find an environment like that are the more competitive PvP servers like Gehennas, Firemaw, or Herod. That's part of why it makes me smile when I read posts complaining about stuff like elitism, ppl always looking only for spellcleave groups etc. It's like you guys have never checked a PvE server on Classic... or even the less populated PvP servers.

To answer your question more precisely, TBC pservers tend to die because, without custom systems etc., the racial unbalance tends to become unbearable and this kills wPvP/BGs - which, to the pserver crowd, is basically the only endgame worth playing. And, once you start employing custom mechanics such as giving Alliance bonuses, you begin alienate a bigger and bigger crowd until you end up being just a niche product.

A Classic TBC however would be a whole different story. Yes, we would still have many Flamelash scenarios... but we also would have many situations such as Hydraxian Waterlords, where the Horde is by far a minority on the server but still thrives because it's a PvE server. And given the debacle WPvP was in Classic for many people, I'd expect a LOT less PvP servers to open up if/when TBC launches, and a lot more PvE servers to fill the gap. And even on the PvP server side, sure a few might meet the same fate as Shazzrah or Flamelash, but I'd bet whatever you want that we would also have at least one Mograine or Ashbringer with more balanced numbers.

In conclusion, even with a few casualties among PvP servers, the few balanced PvP servers surviving and the rest of PvE servers would be more than enough to keep TBC alive. Maybe not to the same numbers we've seen at Classic launch, but certainly far above what we've seen on TBC pservers.

Besides, even if BGs had excessively long queues, in TBC you can still queue for arenas against your own faction, so PvP isn't as impossible as it would be on Classic under the same conditions. Sure, getting those PvP offset items would be more daunting, but that's about it.

Unbearble levels of coping mate, please stop posting.

[Zarator8]

Unbearble levels of coping mate, please stop posting.

Is this the best argument you can give?

I mean, if mine is just coping, please explain me: why PvE servers are a lot more populated on Classic than on Vanilla pservers? What's your explanation to that?

[Craaazyyy]

fuck are you talking about? PVP was killed in TBC? Arenas were the best thing added to WoW

it's also one of the reasons why so many people want TBC right now instead of classic.. one of many reasons ofc