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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzeeyooo View Post
    Literally nothing to do with set bonuses, literally everything to do with titanforging
    Titanforging enables it, so...you're using literally wrong. Yeah, they're cutting down on titanforging, and that's grand. Doesn't change that it highlighted the very worst of the problems with tier bonuses.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Halyon View Post
    Doesn't change that it highlighted the very worst of the problems with tier bonuses.
    It highlighted problems that only existed in Legion due to the systems that they introduced in Legion (Titanforging, 6 set items instead of 5 allowing 2 set + 4 set stacking, horrible balancing with early tier set bonuses).

    Removing set bonuses to fix those issues is like cutting your toes off because the new shoes you got for xmas don't quite fit.
    Last edited by Dizzeeyooo; 2019-12-26 at 12:47 AM.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    -Snip-
    You need to understand that "some" people loved tier sets, that's it. It was part of wow for a long time and then suddenly it's gone, it sucks.

    Is that all you're obsessed with are facts, graphs, sims, and % math? Nobody cares.

    Side note, azerite armor compared to set bonuses are better no matter how you spin it, but it was supposed to substitute for artifact weapons, legiondaries, and tier sets, so in itself, the azerite armor failed.

    Azerite armor could've been something sick, but the execution was poor and some traits are garbage and not even worth picking throughout the entire expansion, *cough* blood dks *cough*.
    Last edited by Beefkow; 2019-12-26 at 01:04 AM.

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzeeyooo View Post
    It highlighted problems that only existed in Legion due to the systems that they introduced in Legion (Titanforging, 6 set items instead of 5 allowing 2 set + 4 set stacking, horrible balancing with early tier set bonuses).

    Removing set bonuses to fix those issues is like cutting your toes off because the new shoes you got for xmas don't quite fit.
    No. The correct analogy for what I'm arguing is not wanting to use the new shoes because they look and feel horrible.

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by ViolenceJackRespectsWomen View Post
    Why were tier sets better. Azerite is more flexible and allows for more customization. It also rewards players baaed on skill level. All of the problems with the system are fixables. It's the implementation not the idea that's bad in the case of azerite.
    I have to agree with you, the flexibility is what I prefer most.
    Sylvaeres-Azkial-Pailerth @Proudmoore

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzeeyooo View Post
    It highlighted problems that only existed in Legion due to the systems that they introduced in Legion (Titanforging, 6 set items instead of 5 allowing 2 set + 4 set stacking, horrible balancing with early tier set bonuses).

    Removing set bonuses to fix those issues is like cutting your toes off because the new shoes you got for xmas don't quite fit.
    That is not correct analogy simply because it was one of many issues of tier sets. Biggest one was - they were not available to anyone but raiders.
    Removing tier sets is like cutting of your 6th toe on left foot (right one has 5) because rarely any shoes fit them both. If they fit left leg, they are too big for right one. If they fit right one they are too small for left one.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Beefkow View Post
    You need to understand that "some" people loved tier sets, that's it. It was part of wow for a long time and then suddenly it's gone, it sucks.

    Is that all you're obsessed with are facts, graphs, sims, and % math? Nobody cares.
    And you need to understand that feeling and nostalgia is not what makes game good. Everyone cares about facts and only clingy people can't let go of their obsession.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beefkow View Post
    Side note, azerite armor compared to set bonuses are better no matter how you spin it, but it was supposed to substitute for artifact weapons, legiondaries, and tier sets, so in itself, the azerite armor failed.
    Artifact weapon was scrapped, legiondaries were scrapped, they have nothing to do with azerite armor.
    And let me tell you why:

    1. Legendary system where everyone has everything from the start - so lets say waking essences from the start of legion:
    a. Is not a legendary at all - since they are basically craftable gear, everyone wears same bis pieces.
    b. It's a lesser evil - yes it would be better but
    c. It just locks you out from 1-2 gear slots after 2 months of expansion - you don't change best ones for a loong loooong time.
    d. There is no excitement anymore since you got best ones in 2 months
    e. There is no longer a reson to farm "everything" so no more carrot on a stick

    2. Artifact weapon was a failure because it was single most powerful piece of equipment in game:
    a. It easily overpowered all other gear combined as besides from being powerful gear it also gave you a lot of perks and tons of stamina
    b. It made iconic weapons common - everyone had ashbringer, doomhammer etc. That definitely broke immersion
    c. Since it was so powerful and spec specific you had to farm AP for each spec which made switching alts complete nightmare
    d. If that wasn't bad, you also had to farm 3 relics for each spec.

    Neck is a replacement for artifact weapons and have most of these issues fixed, its not as powerful anymore, is cross spec, doesn't take visual gear slot and doesn't make iconinc gear common. Still some issues persist but they are not game breaking at least for me.

    Azerite gear is direct replacement to tier sets with extra steps (which should have been removed patch *.1).

    Quote Originally Posted by Beefkow View Post
    Azerite armor could've been something sick, but the execution was poor and some traits are garbage and not even worth picking throughout the entire expansion, *cough* blood dks *cough*.
    If azerite was something sick it would have been complete failure because next expansion you would have lost it, we would have the same backlash as we had now.
    People are blaming BfA for legion failures because gameplay became a lot slower once you lost all that power rental gear.

    Execution is really good except for visuals. Blizzard did fail on this one, they should have implemented ensembles like Trial of Valor ones:
    https://www.wowhead.com/news=257661/...tching-weapons

    That was a great system for visual sets.
    Last edited by kaminaris; 2019-12-26 at 10:41 AM.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvaeres View Post
    I have to agree with you, the flexibility is what I prefer most.
    I was called a blizzard employee because I didn't join the butt hurt brigade. My post is shitting on blizzard as well they're so fucking out of touch with players that they can't even fix a broken system without creating new problems.

    I really want blizzard to stop /deleting shit and just try to understand why something doesn't work and fix it instead for once.
    Violence Jack Respects Women!

  8. #188
    Tier sets would be awesome. But let's not forget the fact that right now my wife is at home with my two sons, one of whom is autistic. That's why I propose a Freedom Dividend of $1,000 a month to every American citizen - if we took a slice out of every Amazon sale, digital transaction and introduced a VAT ontop of actually taxing the trillion dollar businesses that currently pay 0$ in tax, and that might solve our issue.

  9. #189
    I miss tier sets (the bonus's, not the look, can't give 2 shits what my character looks like) and raiding hasn't been the same to me without them, it was fun completing the set and getting that bonus, azerite just didn't have the same pull.

    Please bring back the tier sets

  10. #190
    People miss tier sets not because they were good, but because they liked them

    Azerite is better functioning in every single aspect, with less pieces. Will the community adapt? Unlikely.

  11. #191
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    I hope tier sets never return. They were too mandatory to have and too hard to get since everyone want em.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by Maudib View Post
    Actually tier sets and the bonuses were likely the very best thing in WoW. A huge nail in the coffin of WoW for me.
    Personally, I feel the opposite. I used to be a Mythic raider in my youth and always felt locked to those tier sets when I had the 2 or 4 piece bonus. You couldn't simply upgrade that slot as you'd loose the bonus and so that becomes a virtual non upgradable slot, loosing out on gear upgrades in favor of set bonus. Not until you collected enough of the next set bonus would you replace items, or, sometime the previous tier bonus was better so you might even go multiple tiers not upgrading gear in favor of slot bonuses.

    And then you have the whole debacle of is 2x 2 piece bonus better than a 4 piece bonus or can I get a 4 piece AND a 2 piece and if so that's the virutual mandatory gear requirement to be optimal.

    And you know if they made tier sets with bonuses again but then disabled the piece bonus when the new raid content came out it would be yet another thing people would burn them at the stake for. I, personally see tier set bonuses as a no win situation for players and blizzard.

    Now, I'm also not a huge fan of Azerite Gear either. It's got better over the life of the expansion and it also can change the way you play your character depending on the traits you have. Way too much RNG with azerite gear though. There needed be some way for you to grind/farm for the specific traits you would like.

    I'd like to see them give us something other than tier bonus's to go for. A couple ideas floating around in my head not really fleshed out would be:

    I like class sets for collecting purposes but it would be nice if the combination of set pieces gave us something to look forward to for completing the set. Perhaps additional cosmetic flair when you're wearing 2 pieces and more glowy glittery flair of some kind with 4 pieces and some magnificently cool animation with the full set.

    or Give us tier bonuses for each tier that build and adapt off each other. Tier 1 2 piece and 4 piece give x and y bonus. When Tier 2 comes out and you get a tier piece, you can wear it but it still counts for the previous tier, allowing you to keep your bonus. Once you have 2 pieces of the new tier your 2 piece bonus changes to the new tier bonus and your 4 piece remains as the previous tier. Once you get a 3rd piece of the set your bonus, not being majority of Tier 1, is the Tier 2 bonus even though you have 3 pieces out of 4 of the current tier but you are wearing 4 total tier pieces. Maybe the current tier bonus is not a full power and getting the 4th piece to round out the tier set gets you the full bonus. But this way you're not loosing out on set bonuses and you don't have to sit and stare at gear in your bag that is better but would break your set bonus so you don't/"shouldn't" wear it.

    This could perhaps also provide incentive to continue to farm and defeat bosses once the raid is cleared. And if the set "bonus" is more cosmetic in nature might continue to farm previous tiers even after the new tier is released.

    Just some thoughts, which I know are dangerous to post here in MMO, so proceed to ripping me apart.
    Last edited by talmar; 2019-12-27 at 02:57 PM.

  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by ViolenceJackRespectsWomen View Post
    I was called a blizzard employee because I didn't join the butt hurt brigade. My post is shitting on blizzard as well they're so fucking out of touch with players that they can't even fix a broken system without creating new problems.

    I really want blizzard to stop /deleting shit and just try to understand why something doesn't work and fix it instead for once.
    Because the clowns on this site all believe their opinions matter. It's always been amusing. That's why 90% of the posts are more like blogs, and why clickbaity threads populate the site.
    Sylvaeres-Azkial-Pailerth @Proudmoore

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by Kithelle View Post
    Yup...because the best thing about WoW was unpredictable set bonuses that could be absolutely worthless or leaving you passing on upgrades because of how good they are!
    Tier sets, for the most part, were EPIC... and a major driving force for raiding. The kickazz weapon from the last bosses were the icing on the cake to get through it all.

    Sure there were some set designs/bonuses that were lackluster... but blame the devs not the mechanics. The same types of bonuses created for Azerite gear could have been developed for tier... but the devs got lazy on some classes... and mostly that was the class dev leaders' fault.

    And guess what? Then you knew what you were grinding for... now it's RNG drop chance of umpteen different varieties... many of which are not fun or very suboptimal. Crap that doesn't make your character feel more powerful in WoW. But hit your set bonuses and BAM! No thanks... you can keep grinding Azerite... and now worrying about negative aspects of Corruption.

    All yours man.

  15. #195
    As if classes weren't already dull this expansion, discontinuing one of the main visual identifiers of a class was just icing on the cake for how offputting doing anything in BFA has been for me.

  16. #196
    I wouldn't like to go back to tier bonus design, but I do think that end bosses (or even class specific bosses) should drop a class appearance set, like the Shaman set in SoO.

    Each set should have a different appearance for difficulty level as is normal now.

    The end boss should have a chance to drop them all, but if there's a humanoid boss that is a say a warlock, they will be the one to drop the warlock set and so on.

  17. #197
    Nope. Left with no set trash again.

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Throsher View Post
    I wouldn't like to go back to tier bonus design, but I do think that end bosses (or even class specific bosses) should drop a class appearance set, like the Shaman set in SoO.

    Each set should have a different appearance for difficulty level as is normal now.

    The end boss should have a chance to drop them all, but if there's a humanoid boss that is a say a warlock, they will be the one to drop the warlock set and so on.
    I really like that idea. While I feel that Tier sets are implemented better through either legendaries or the awful start that was Azerite gear, the main thing that is missing is class identity and cosmetics. If the cheers about more customization options at BlizzCon is any indication on what the players want, it is appearances and cosmetics. Of course, people that do the harder content deserve some more options. Give a mythic only set that fits the theme of the raid would be cool.

  19. #199
    Honestly I like not being forced to raid so I can do Mythics at higher levels... Tier sets help a lot.. I'm not saying the current system is working well because it isn't essences sucks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Firedemon View Post
    No. On these forums any updates mean an expansion hint.
    Wrathin comes back? Dragon expansion clearly!
    LK part of a quest? Wotlk 2 clearly!
    Sylvanas working with a death master? Shadowlands clearly!

    At the point we're headed for Wrath of the Shdowlands Dragon Isles Lich and tinkers.

  20. #200
    Tier sets should definitely make a comeback. But they don't don't have to be so overly defining as some of them have been in the past (especially MoP and WoD). It's fine if it's just a small bonus, not something that changes your entire rotation or something that is incredibly powerful. Class design should be stable, and it shouldn't be subject to change with every new tier bonus.

    The only reason we don't have tier bonuses is because of this perception that "set bonuses have to redefine my entire rotation and spice things up massively - or at least be really powerful". Well, that and because it requires a lot of development/design time to make new ones every tier (including art for each separate set for each class), and Blizzard is doing everything they can to minimize work on WoW.

    Mythic+ and raid gear should share the same tier bonus though, in the sense that you can have 2/5 mythic+ pieces and 2/5 raid pieces and you'll get a combined 4/5 granting you the 4/4 set bonus.

    Additionally, Mythic+ gear acquistion rate should naturally be decreased massively (to match the acquistion rate of raids) and the ilvl of the acquired gear should match the skill level required to complete the content. Mythic+ cannot continue to give significantly better/faster gear than raiding of the same "difficulty" and vice versa.

    Moreover, PvP gear needs to be taken out of the PvE gearing equation by being separated, with their own set bonuses. PvP gear should, baseline, be significantly worse than PvE gear, but it should on the other hand be much faster to acquire and it should be fully targetable (via vendors or equivalent system) - and in PvP it should scale up and be significantly better than all PvE gear.
    Last edited by RelaZ; 2020-01-02 at 12:53 AM.

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