How did pvp gearing get this bad?

[123youshowme]

1. those armors you show are.
Eternal palace
PVP
PVP
PVP
PVP
PVP
PVP
PVP
PVP
Warfront
Warfront
Warfront
Warfront
Battle of dazar
M+


so i guess you are right...
oh no wait, you arnt, cause thats only ONE HELM in warfront, the second 2 warfront peices are chests, while ALL of the pvp parts are helmets.


but again. you have yet to prove even in a slightest, that this is BIS for assasin rogue, let alone "MOST CLASSES"
even in your one actual example its not even BIS its second. meanwhile being MANY TIMES HARDER to obtain.

Lol

Bloodmallet has dd/np/op as #1, unless you again want to talk about your 445 wq gear (because cursed boarhide is world quest gear from the boar in drustvar)

I link dd/np/op helmet both from pvp and from warfront, you put your hands to your ears and bawl LALALALALA

classic mmo-c

anyway, I was in for the long con and it paid off. you're wrong, just move on.

(also, bloodmallet sims exist in a vacuum because a lot of traits complement other traits, you'd have to go to the individual discords and peep the "theoretical bis" gear profiles. For example, none of the dh pieces come with CT, but you generally get better results having 1 ct on your gear vs 3TB 3FG)

BUT ANYWAY

[FelPlague]

Lol

Bloodmallet has dd/np/op as #1, unless you again want to talk about your 445 wq gear (because cursed boarhide is world quest gear from the boar in drustvar)

I link dd/np/op helmet both from pvp and from warfront, you put your hands to your ears and bawl LALALALALA

classic mmo-c

anyway, I was in for the long con and it paid off. you're wrong, just move on.

(also, bloodmallet sims exist in a vacuum because a lot of traits complement other traits, you'd have to go to the individual discords and peep the "theoretical bis" gear profiles. For example, none of the dh pieces come with CT, but you generally get better results having 1 ct on your gear vs 3TB 3FG)

BUT ANYWAY

so 1. say it in your post
2. you have found 1 single spec, in 1 single slot, where it is BIS.
you say "i was in for the long con and it paid off" no it has not paid off, you are still 100% full of shit.

pvp azerite is bis in pve for most classes too. so... you know

you have ATLEAST 25 more specs to show me where atleast 1 slot the PVP gear is BIS.


1 slot in 1 spec is not "most classes"


There is 36 specs, with 3 slots each, meaning 108 slots.
so far you have shown me 1.

idk what buttfuck backwards universe 1 is "MOST" of 108.

[123youshowme]

so 1. say it in your post
2. you have found 1 single spec, in 1 single slot, where it is BIS.
you say "i was in for the long con and it paid off" no it has not paid off, you are still 100% full of shit.

you have ATLEAST 25 more specs to show me where atleast 1 slot the PVP gear is BIS.


1 slot in 1 spec is not "most classes"


There is 36 specs, with 3 slots each, meaning 108 slots.
so far you have shown me 1.

idk what buttfuck backwards universe 1 is "MOST" of 108.

You want me to long con you on another spec?
like you sure you won't get tired being my plaything?

[FelPlague]

You want me to long con you on another spec?
like you sure you won't get tired being my plaything?

You have 108 slots.
you have atleast 75 more to go, so go right ahead and back up your BS. You have shown 1 slot, in 1 class, where the PVP helm is BIS. 107 more are not so far mate.
especially since you have yet to explain how getting a warfront piece is harder then having to get to 2400 rating in PVP and then get a trophy.

Didnt know you had a fetish for being humiliated.
but i guess it makes sense.
again 1 is not MOST of 108.
you better get the ball rolling.

[123youshowme]

You have 108 slots.
you have atleast 75 more to go, so go right ahead and back up your BS. You have shown 1 slot, in 1 class, where the PVP helm is BIS. 107 more are not so far mate.
especially since you have yet to explain how getting a warfront piece is harder then having to get to 2400 rating in PVP and then get a trophy.

Didnt know you had a fetish for being humiliated.
but i guess it makes sense.
again 1 is not MOST of 108.
you better get the ball rolling.

Fetish for humiliation you say? If you mean letting you get uppity and showing you exactly how/where you were wrong is a fetish for humiliation, I guess I have one.


And before we go further, I'm gonna just let you know that all the #1 parses use the #21 ranked list on bloodmallet, because like i said before, bloodmallet sims in a vacuum

[Specialka]

The pvp trinket is BIS on fire mage.

[Ange]

You don't have a single piece of pvp gear, not one piece. Why even bother capping in Pvp. Basically, you just proved the OP's point.

RIVAL is what kind of PVE difficulty?

[FelPlague]

Fetish for humiliation you say? If you mean letting you get uppity and showing you exactly how/where you were wrong is a fetish for humiliation, I guess I have one.


And before we go further, I'm gonna just let you know that all the #1 parses use the #21 ranked list on bloodmallet, because like i said before, bloodmallet sims in a vacuum

So when are you gunna show me most classes. Instead of 1 slot for 1 spec.

Also lol showing 1 fight as your evidence? Pretty sad dude

[123youshowme]

So when are you gunna show me most classes. Instead of 1 slot for 1 spec.

Also lol showing 1 fight as your evidence? Pretty sad dude

how bout this? or it "doesn't count"

[FelPlague]

how bout this? or it "doesn't count"

One dude.
But even then ok. Still not most. You have shown me 3/108 slots

[123youshowme]

One dude.
But even then ok. Still not most. You have shown me 3/108 slots

here's another



So anyway, about pvp gear

[FelPlague]

here's another



So anyway, about pvp gear

5/108. Again. How is this BIS for most classes?

[123youshowme]

5/108. Again. How is this BIS for most classes?

out of 108 lmao
you can't count huh?

Here's another


DON'T WORRY, I HAVE A LOT BUT I CAN TELL THAT YOU ENJOY THIS THIS AS MUCH AS I DO.

[ChronoSul]

out of 108 lmao
you can't count huh?

Here's another


DON'T WORRY, I HAVE A LOT BUT I CAN TELL THAT YOU ENJOY THIS THIS AS MUCH AS I DO.

Survival hunter is also on the list for the shoulders the next closest is benthic 430s

[123youshowme]

Survival hunter is also on the list for the shoulders the next closest is benthic 430s

You can tell that roleplay warlock has no idea what ce players did for gear, lol.

Grinding 445 pvp pieces was a huge "fuck i have to do this shit"

Also, I'm feeding him these things slowly.

I enjoy foreplay.

[FelPlague]

out of 108 lmao
you can't count huh?

Here's another


DON'T WORRY, I HAVE A LOT BUT I CAN TELL THAT YOU ENJOY THIS THIS AS MUCH AS I DO.

6/108 your almost to most I think. Especially since you are literally just showing people who are using PvP gear, and not how it's "BIS" as you said it was for most classes

[Luxeley]

RIVAL is what kind of PVE difficulty?

The kind that still doesn't make my initial point incorrect.

[123youshowme]

6/108 your almost to most I think. Especially since you are literally just showing people who are using PvP gear, and not how it's "BIS" as you said it was for most classes

So having the best parses on a straight st fight doesn't mean you have the best gear setup? ahahahahahahahah what's the mental gymnastics you gonna use for this one now, kid?

Also, again, 108? lmao

There are 24 dps specs. Keep foaming at the mouth, though.

[Kagthul]

Umm, you are mistaken here mate. In Legion, your gear BARELY mattered,

It mattered more than any expansion previous to that. By quite a large margin.

because EVERY class/spec had a very, VERY specfic template with specific stats - Basically every single feral was the exact same as every other feral in terms of stats, and the case was the same for EVERY other spec. Every 10 ilvls above 800 ilvl added +1% to that template's stats, so somebody doing Mythic Antorus would only have 17% more stats then a fresh lvl 110.

"only 17% more stats!"

... when the previous largest gap was about 8.5% on average, because from basically Wrath onwards you could get the honor gear without ever having to actually PvP. (In Wrath, you could get it with badges, or get lots of Honor in Wintergrasp from quests and just doing the battle, where your stats didn't matter if you rode a turret, and you could get PvP gear drops from the WG bosses which were stupidly puggable; in Cata, same deal with Tol'Barad; MoP had several PvPvE areas, and in WoD, you could literally be fully honor geared in sub-six hours of not even fighting mobs OR PvPing in Ashran, just by collecting artifacts and turning them in... and you could ride around the outside edge of the island and collect the artifact cap in just minutes because of treasures).

And it doesn't take into account that Artifact bonuses to stats and abiliies factored in AFTER the PvP template and mathematically compounded the % stat increase from iLevel.

Thtas how you got fury warriors running around with almost half-again as much HP as a tank and three-shotting people.

Legion's system was AWFUL.

And getting the free 930 ilvl pieces from Argus moved that up to a +13% vs +17%, or less then a 4% overall stat difference.

Except those weren't 930, and they weren't exactly quick to acquire.

remaining inability to do math or understand the basic systems snipped

Man, you have no idea how the template system actually worked. No, im not going to go digging for it, but if you look, im sure the post where we broke it down, step b y step, and showed EXACTLY how it worked (not at all like you think) is still here in this forum, burried in the back. You can probably find it if you search for my posts. It was all verified in-game by multiple posters.

because the itemisation forces again 100% of the players to participate in the sub 5% minigame that is PVP.

Oh, this old gas again.

This has been disproven time and time again. We broke this down, too, in posts, with links to the Armory stats.

Since Achievements were implemented (and it became possible to track easily), the number of max level characters who earned the achievement for getting enough Honor EVERY SEASON to get a full set of Honor gear was just shy of 50% (averaged about 47%). The number of max level characters who completed the achievement to get enough Conquest to get a full set of Conquest gear (when this became possible due to Conquest being obtainable outside of Arena/rating was removed from head/weapon/shoulders) EVERY SEASON was always above 40% (averaged about 42%; it was quite a bit lower in TBC because you COULDNT earn Conquest outside of Arena - somewhere in the low teens).

So... for the entire time it was possible to track, between 40-50% of the entire level capped player base PvP regularly enough to max out Honor and most of those did enough to Max out Conquest... EVERY. SEASON. (Most of them without doing a single Arena game, as Arena participation never went north of ~15%)

Conversely, we're told by Blizzard that less than 4% of active raiders saw Naxx in Vanilla, and once achievements went in, and it became possible to track...

The number of people clearing raids when they were relevant remained below 15% until the implementation of LFR. Cata LFR saw those numbers rise into the 25% range when taking LFR into account, but actually saw "relevant" (Non-LFR difficulties) Raid participation DROP to sub-10%. MoP saw the trend continue, with LFR-inclusive numbers heading towards 40%, but "relevant" raiding remaining at ~10% depending on the tier. WoD saw it go up into the mid 40s with LFR, and go a little higher with "relevant" raids because of how undertuned Normal had become. There was virtually no change in Legion, and the thread we were compiling numbers in stops before BfA numbers became available, but i dont imagine its changed. In fact, with the piss-ease of getting relatively high iLevel without even doing Raids at all, i imagine even the LFR numbers are down, but i'd have to go look and i simply dont care that much.

the TILDEER here is: PvP has always been VASTLY more popular than raiding as an end-game activity in WoW, for as long as we've been capable of tracking it. Its somewhat harder to track now (there's no handy "got 27,000 Honor or Conquest" achievements to track), but from what ive seen in discussions on other forums, its remained pretty solid in the high-40s%.

It took LFR to bring "raiding"/end-game PvE anywhere NEAR PvP's numbers.

the only reason people hate pvp gearing in BfA is that now it finally rewards skills instead of mindless bashing your head against arenas untill cap and recive participation trophy in form of gear equal to hc raiding.

if your raiting sucks your gear sucks too - like it should have always been.

Except.. no?

If you jsut cap your CQ you can get the same iLevel gear as top-rated people. You just only get one piece a week unless you're behind. A high rating just gets you two pieces a week instead of one.

Last expansion had templates, which meant PvP was about skill and not gear. Y’all told them to remove it, so you get what you get.

The math doesn't agree with you. Templates were a worse power disparity than any other system before it.

Casual players never had a reason to do PvP when it was roflstomp no-lifers in UberPvP gear who would dominate everyone while screaming things like “get good, scrub”.

PvP will only be fun when there is zero gear dependence, everyone gets the same kit, macros and addons are banned and actual skill is tested.

The closer Blizzard has come to this, the lower participation has gotten.

Every.

Single.

Time.

Templates? NINETY PERCENT decrease in participation. 90 fucking percent. 600,000 people on the Ladder in the last season of WoD. less than 60,000 people in the first season of Legion.. and it only WENT DOWN after that.

People dont want this.

As an Alliance player, it was not “quick” and “easy” to get into, as “farming” BGs meant losing dozens of times, getting no upgrades just to be beaten down harder by Horde groups who did get upgrades.

PvP gearing like that was terrible, inefficient and demoralizing.

Or in all of those xpacs, you could have farmed an entire set of honor gear doing PvE. In about 3 days. Of relatively casual play. In WoD you could do it in six hours or less. Without even fighting a mob or player.

I think the template situation wasn't too bad just because it made it more balanced, you could join NAKED and have only a LITTLE less % than the best top end RANK JUAN GLADS in the same bg.. aka - you could actually BEAT them (even though most of us likely cant because they are WAY better if they are rank one glads..)

... no, being over 20% behind in stats was not a "little less %".. it was over twice the previous disparity. Seriously. MATH.

The reason I replied though: The most fun I've ever had in PVP was during one of the worst xpacs: WoD - the reason WoD was so good was the the gear came from vendors+a few other methods - things mattered - BUT.. pvp gear was almost always the ultimate best for PVP.. PVE gear was almost always the ultimate best for PVE - why would blizz change that setup? People didn't mind it back then, but they destroyed the carrot on the stick in Legion.. then changed stuff back for BfA but still goofed because they don't have vendors and I can scrubknight my dumbass through a 10M+ a week and get 440-455 gear without even trying vs to do that in PVP I literally have to be a PVP god

Ill agree with WoD having the best PvP gearing system. Casual friendly, but try-hards stll got their gear a lot faster. Vendor based so you could get what you wanted. Honor gear was within 8.1% of Conquest gear, and could be obtained in hours without even PvPing by either faction. PvE gear was scaled down, and PvP gear scaled up (meaning it wasn't good for PvE until the aborted-third-raid-tier + still having a third PvP season meant it caught up, which it should not have). It was simple to understand, easy to gear, the PvP gear was best for PvP, the PvE gear was best for PvE, it was casual friendly but still rewarded the tryhards.

Some slots were, but for every expac from tbc up to wod, the easiest way to get a good starting set was honor. You can give me examples if i missed something, but that's what i remember. If you had a guild that could raid hc icc or get you shadowmourne, sure, you did it. For most, though, the most practical method way was to get starting honor gear and then work on conquest, all from pvp.

You could also get the Honor gear with badges in TBC-Cata. Not sure about MoP.

So you didnt even have to suffer getting pounded in to get it. Just run some Heroics. And there was a marginally-OK crafted PvP set with resil in LK, Cata, and MoP.

And in WoD.. Trashran was awful by itself, but the fact that you could grind artifacts there and get a full set of Honor gear in six hours without ever having to fight a player or a mob made gearing in WoD piss easy.

when PvP gained extra stats inside Instanced PvP.

All PvP. The moment you were attacked in World PvP, your stats scaled up.

There is basically a hidden modifier in PvP that adjust incoming / outgoing damage depending on your and your targets Ilvl.

If you have low Ilvl and attack someone with higher itemlevel, that attack will be scaled up and vice versa.
However, this doesn't change the numbers you see on screen.

If you crit someone for 30k, you might actually do 35k, if they have higher Ilvl, or actually 25k if you have higher Ilvl.

Exact numbers are basically nonexistant as the team never gave any specific numbers about this system, all we have is player confirmation that such a system actually exists.

Ehh.. sorta. There's a treshold after which it stop working.

And it only applies to attacks performed by, or done to, people below the treshold.

Not defending it as a concept - it sucks - but its not all-pervasive. It only applies to people who are pretty undergeared. And the scaling now has a full-stop cap, to prevent the "greens with sockets" thing from working, but that took them like three months to implement.

Even then, most people didn't jumped into Arena and just pulled off a 2,3k rating out of nowhere, for that sort of you rating, you were getting carried or you were already a dedicated PvP'er to begin with.

Stop pretending everybody and their mother in Wotlk did Arena in order to get a weapon, that's just not how it was.
Even 1,8k was out of reach for most people, that was the minimum for getting the regular current season weapons.

This right here. By DESIGN, most people CANT get those weapons.

Only ~30% of the people on the ladder can even mathematically hit more than 1850. Its a pyramid.

MOST people playing PvP would have to PvE for a weapon.

You can tell that roleplay warlock has no idea what ce players did for gear, lol.

Grinding 445 pvp pieces was a huge "fuck i have to do this shit"

Also, I'm feeding him these things slowly.

I enjoy foreplay.

Except you're one of the people that apparently cant read graphs and shit right, because they dont say what you think they say, and you're cherrypicking your data in a desperate attempt to appear right.

FelPlague is a snit...

But theyve nailed you to the wall here kiddo.

Just take your humble pie and go home.

[Amariw]

I actually miss WoD PvP gearing the most. Getting decent PvP ilvl was just about grinding it out as quick as you could (thanks Ashran), put you on decent footing to play against anyone in PvP, but didn't give you freebee PvE gear since it scaled down when not in PvP content. Then getting your gear up to good PvE ilvl and the highest PvP ilvl took some skill and time grinding it. For me, it was the perfect way to get alts up to a playable ilvl for pvp, and still have something to work towards. Granted, artifact weapons, neck, azerite traits, and essences weren't something to worry about then either, which made it a lot easier to compete.

Tbh if they just bring it back we'd be golden.