Sylvanas is suffocating Alleria progress

[Ielenia]

I think you don't understand how actually terrible and inadmissible this actually is.

Her family live for thousand years since sundering and maybe even longer. Her House was strong and they were noble even among others. And Alleria's choice was make offsprings with race that was younger that her family. Not only it stoped and destroyed whole bloodline because other siblings are either dead or do same. But something like this is actually worse than betrayal mainly because she choose that her children will not be elves anymore. She forsake her race because love with person that should have been dead long ago (if the blizzard didn't come up with the idea of making Turalyon immortal). This is not about love and flowers. This is fact. And even when i could understand why she do it. (people that are with love are sometimes crazy) It doesn't make her betrayal any better. Alleria and Veressa are not bad characters in general. But they were so badly writen to Alliance lore that anything they will ever do never delete fact they choosed love with human rather that own race and family.

I got it. You are high elf fan. I can see it from your previous post. But don't let your vision of thalassian elves under Alliance banner cloud your eyes. High Elves under Alliance banner needs better protagonist. Protagonist who actually like their race. Not two females that was totally destroyed by writers who never feel love for this universe and just wanted create books similiar to Tolkien.


(And even halfbreed in Tolkien saga were sterille. Practially every fantasy ever just made halfbreeds sterile or not possible at all. It's quite enigma why races in Warcraft still exist with something like this.)

I've read the WoWpedia entries for Turalyon, Vereesa and Arator, and I've seen nothing regarding this "betrayal".

The closest thing I could find was in Sylvanas' and Nathanos' pages, in which Kael'Thas opposed Nathanos because it was rumored he wanted Sylvanas' hand, instead, and rumors floating around the Farstriders of the two being 'in love' because of the perceived preferential treatment she gave Nathanos.

[Beatman]

Alleria's progress was over before it even began. I mean, void powers? C'mon...

[Arrashi]

Nah, being bland "generic female elven archer that fall for human number 1963484" is what is suffocating her progress.

[MatthiasVonTzeskagrad]

Alleria's progress was over before it even began. I mean, void powers? C'mon...

Void powers could have been something interesting to toy with, if done any properly. Would have been interesting to see Alleria trying to find a way herself to fight the Old Gods, or being attacked by them in Stormsong, maybe something involving her and the Tidesages, or even have her trying to help at all during Ny'alotha, even if that help consisted on trying to join the battle but being mind blasted for trying to sneak into N'Zoths world with so much Void, then telling us to keep going while she keeps a Void rift for us in need of getaway.

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Nah, being bland "generic female elven archer that fall for human number 1963484" is what is suffocating her progress.

This is the problem. Alleria literally had to be infused with Void to be anything different than Vereesa, yet the approach to her Void thingy is shoddy and often can be negligible in comparison with "still loving Turalyon"

[Artelia]

I've read the WoWpedia entries for Turalyon, Vereesa and Arator, and I've seen nothing regarding this "betrayal".

The closest thing I could find was in Sylvanas' and Nathanos' pages, in which Kael'Thas opposed Nathanos because it was rumored he wanted Sylvanas' hand, instead, and rumors floating around the Farstriders of the two being 'in love' because of the perceived preferential treatment she gave Nathanos.

And you don't have common sense. You need Wowpedia for this. Ok.

[Mehrunes]

Family always comes first, and all her relatives are in the Alliance, aside from Sylvanas, whom she deems as lost. Also yes, she hates the orcs, that's why she rejects the Horde. She also remains loyal to Silvermoon and seeks to bring it back to the Alliance, where it belongs. She is not the best ever at wielding shadow magic, so much so that she has envisioned a potential future in which she succumbs to the whispers, and we literally see that possible future in 8.3. Also she trained under the Locus-Walker, who is one of the most powerful Void users in the cosmos, for 500 years, and the final stage of her training is the focus of the Mac'aree questline in Legion.

Quel'Thalas belongs where its leader decides it belong. Alleria has no say in that. Especially since Quel'Thalas was an Alliance member for just a few years at best out of its 7000 years of existence. So the claim that in belongs in the Alliance is nonsensical from any and all perspectives. Especially since Alliance brought more destruction upon Quel'Thalas than the Orcs ever did. And please, you're the very poster that always goes on how super duper amazing Alleria is in regards to her Void prowess. How comes it has changed suddenly? Could it be because right now it's convenient for your argument? Speaking of which, for someone as infatuated with the character, how comes you've got rather basic information about her so wrong? Alleria wasn't trained by Locus Walker for 500 years. Xe'ra imprisoned her shortly after her original voidification and she spent that 500 years between then and Legion in a Naaru holding cell.

I see this far more often than I should. When she left for Outland, the High Elves were a part of the Alliance, she hated the Orcs like no other and undoubtedly the Trolls as well due to the history between the two people. She goes and fights in outer space for 10000 years and comes back to see her homeland has allied with the enemies she spent her life fighting and her sister is an abomination who is trying to kill everyone and everything. Did Alleria really become the traitor? The answer is of course no. I won't go so far to blame the Blood Elves for doing what they feel they should do to survive, but you can't accuse Alleria of treason for the drastic change in the political climate in her absence.

Your "drastic change in the political climate" doesn't magically change the fact that she fights against the Kingdom of Quel'thalas. Making her a traitor to it. Also, by the time she left for Outland the High Elves have already left the Alliance. Kinda the core reason why she went alone with her tiny squad on her Orc crusade leading to her departure to Outland. That same Alliance also then betrayed her people and almost caused their annihilation. And please, Alleria fought Orcs for just a few years. And even before she went to Outland she was over 3000 years old. The claim that she spent her life fighting Orcs is a blatant fabrication. The Orcs are just a momentary bleep in her lifetime.

She isn't a traitor because she never joined the reformed Kingdom of Quel'thalas in the first place, as she was away when Kael'thas ushered in the new age.

What "reformed" kingdom are you talking about? Quel'Thalas never fell and there's a direct continuation between Anesterian and Lor'themar's rule.

Why is she a traitor? Because she didn't join the Orcs who killed her people?

Or, you know, because she joined the enemies of her kingdom and fought in a war against it. Top notch avoiding the obvious answer though. And by top notch I mean terrible.

Her son is Alliance. Her husband is Alliance. Her sister is Alliance. The blood elves have sided with the orcs, which she fought all her life until being 'drafted' to fight the Legion. And Alleria did not "betray her people." This is just you playing at absurdity.

She just fought in a war against her own people after siding with their enemy. So the only absurdity here is your little deflection. Blood Elves siding with the Orcs doesn't magically make Quel'Thalas not her kingdom. And she didn't fight the Orcs all of her life. Her fighting against the Orcs doesn't even constitute one percent of her life and that's not even including her 1000 years adventures in the Nether.

Likely spent a hundred or so years studying the void under Locus-Walker's tutelage is not "because reasons". And no one ever said she's "the bestest ever" at shadow magic. Agan, this is just you playing at absurdity.

Yeah, the first mortal ever to not succumb to the Void is totes legit weak as hell. Never mind that she didn't spend a hundred anything under Locus Walker as Xe'ra imprisoned her ass for dabbling into the Void shortly after her first stage of Voidification and kept her there for half a millennium, with her only getting out in 7.3. A tip for the future, before you accuse others of playing at absurdity, actually know what you're talking about. Because so far, you don't.

[eurojust]

Or, you know, because she joined the enemies of her kingdom and fought in a war against it. Top notch avoiding the obvious answer though. And by top notch I mean terrible.

It's not her fault if her Kingdom switched side and joined the enemy. That makes her a traitor from the Blood Elves' pov eventhough they are the real traitors.

[Mehrunes]

Not really, he went expansions with no development at all...then he spends this expansion sits back and plays complete Sylvanas murderfest loyalist, and now his arc in this expansion ends with him lusting after Thaly.

As opposed to Alleria who had almost a decade long gap in even appearing in the story and whose portrayal prior to her reappearance in Legion was "I hate Orcs".

He really hasn't and he was completely loyal to her while she was slaughtering people for her master. I'm not the one pretending things happened differently.

Yeah, him arranging the bailing of Baine out of prison was just the pinnacle of loyalty.

[Varodoc]

Alleria's progress was over before it even began. I mean, void powers? C'mon...

Would it be any better if it were fel powers? Is it the purple that bothers you?

Or are you saying that Alleria is so good that she doesn't even need to train for centuries to master her void powers?

[Mehrunes]

I've read the WoWpedia entries for Turalyon, Vereesa and Arator, and I've seen nothing regarding this "betrayal".

The closest thing I could find was in Sylvanas' and Nathanos' pages, in which Kael'Thas opposed Nathanos because it was rumored he wanted Sylvanas' hand, instead, and rumors floating around the Farstriders of the two being 'in love' because of the perceived preferential treatment she gave Nathanos.

More like skimmed through them. Because if you've actually read them you'd have noticed the bit about Alleria going beyond Quel'Thalas completely by her own volition and then joining the Alliance Expedition to Outland without her higher-ups commanding her to do so despite being a member of the Thalassian military. Alternatively, if you don't see a Ranger going AWOL to pursue her personal vendetta and joining foreign military group by herself as a betrayal, read what betrayal actually means.

This is the problem. Alleria literally had to be infused with Void to be anything different than Vereesa, yet the approach to her Void thingy is shoddy and often can be negligible in comparison with "still loving Turalyon"

The other way around to be technical. Vereesa is Knaak's asspull because he wanted a trophy waifu for his self-insert and since he was too lazy to be even remotely original about it he basically copied Alleria.

[Manariel]

Void Elves haven't really raised the dead, have they? I haven't seen Alleria or Umbric actually use The Void to do anything morally-questionable at all other than the actual act of just associating with it being questionable itself. That's exactly my point, though. The Void isn't anymore dangerous than Fel, Death or even The Light which is on a complete opposite of the color spectrum.

When there is an assault on Zuldazar by the Alliance, the Void Elves do corrupt raptors into Void-infused creatures and the assault end with Umbric and some other Void Mages renimating a powerful devilsaur into a weapon, before stopping the channeling to prevent the Void-infused atrocity to grow too strong. So, they could have unleashed some seriously dangerous entity on Zandalar, if things had gone wrong.

They also seems to be overly relient on the whispers of the Void, according the death gossip of the Void Elves NPCs there.

[Ielenia]

She just fought in a war against her own people after siding with their enemy. So the only absurdity here is your little deflection.

After she got banished from her own kingdom. A kingdom, mind you, that banished its own people twice before her.

Yeah, the first mortal ever to not succumb to the Void is totes legit weak as hell.

Look at you, so cute, thinking you got a "gotcha" by pretending I made an argument that I never did.

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More like skimmed through them. Because if you've actually read them you'd have noticed the bit about Alleria going beyond Quel'Thalas completely by her own volition and then joining the Alliance Expedition to Outland without her higher-ups commanding her to do so despite being a member of the Thalassian military. Alternatively, if you don't see a Ranger going AWOL to pursue her personal vendetta and joining foreign military group by herself as a betrayal, read what betrayal actually means.

Betrayal of the orders given to her? Maybe.
Betrayal of all Thalassian elves? Hardly.

And Alleria was still regarded as a hero by the Thalassian elves. She is welcomed with open arms in Silvermoon when she shows up with King Anduin's proposal. At least until she tries to make said proposal.

[Verdugo]

After she got banished from her own kingdom.

You are missing something there, a reason for the banishment. Thats ok, it doesnt fit your agenda so feel free to ignore it.

[Manariel]

You are missing something there, a reason for the banishment. Thats ok, it doesnt fit your agenda so feel free to ignore it.

An accident and her not wanting to be in cohort with the murderers of her family, who proved mere weeks later that they were as vicious and bloodthirsty as they ever were. or did you forget the Burning of Teldrassil, were every race of the Horde sent troops one way or another and none did seem phased by that. What should she do then ? Let her family be slaughtered because the people she used to call her kindred wanted it ?

[MatthiasVonTzeskagrad]

An accident and her not wanting to be in cohort with the murderers of her family, who proved mere weeks later that they were as vicious and bloodthirsty as they ever were. or did you forget the Burning of Teldrassil, were every race of the Horde sent troops one way or another and none did seem phased by that. What should she do then ? Let her family be slaughtered because the people she used to call her kindred wanted it ?

Almost blowing up the Sunwell because not wanting to listen to everyone telling her NOT to touch it it's not an accident, it's being a moron.

[Varodoc]

Almost blowing up the Sunwell because not wanting to listen to everyone telling her NOT to touch it it's not an accident, it's being a moron.

She didn't almost blow it up, talk about being melodramatic. She just allowed a faction of ethereals to use it as a portal for their faction, and they were defeated rather quickly anyway. Also only Rommath was telling her not to go to the Sunwell, and Theron actually disagreed with Rommath and was the one who allowed Alleria to visit it one last time.

[Varodoc]

You do realize that's a lot of "also"'s to explain what should be obvious through good storytelling right?

Good storytelling which didn't happen for Alleria. It was just said and expected to be accepted.

But it is obvious, if you didn't pay attention to the story it's not Blizzard's fault, it's yours.

[MatthiasVonTzeskagrad]

She didn't almost blow it up, talk about being melodramatic. She just allowed a faction of ethereals to use it as a portal for their faction, and they were defeated rather quickly anyway. Also only Rommath was telling her not to go to the Sunwell, and Theron actually disagreed with Rommath and was the one who allowed Alleria to visit it one last time.

I did not say "visit", I said "touch". And who cares if they were dispatched quickly, they just had the op murderhobos with them anyways, but the fact she couldn't just consider touching light stuff while being a Void being is bad... makes her really stupid.

[Varodoc]

I did not say "visit", I said "touch". And who cares if they were dispatched quickly, they just had the op murderhobos with them anyways, but the fact she couldn't just consider touching light stuff while being a Void being is bad... makes her really stupid.

No one told her not to touch it, only Rommath did, and he said "stay back" only after Alleria had already approached it, instead of, you know, mentioning at the very start of the visit that she shouldn't touch it. If she's stupid then so was everyone else present there, Rommath and the player character included.

Also yes, it is important that they were dispatched quickly, because it highlights how melodramatic you are about the whole "almost blowing up the Sunwell". NO, causing some random ethereal organization to attack does not mean "blowing up the Sunwell".

It's obvious, because it's just stated and expected to be accepted.

That's not storytelling. That's literally just fact stating. "Alleria is incredible, didn't you see all that character dev- oh, wait, right, we skipped that part. Well, she's a character, and she's developed! Don't you just love her?!"

What you just said doesn't mean anything.

[mickybrighteyes]

After she got banished from her own kingdom. A kingdom, mind you, that banished its own people twice before her.

twice?

Also banishment as a punishment isn't much of any indication about anything and doesn't validate or justify other actions in and of itself.

She still showed up to play diplomat without bothering to check the facts on what transpired while she was gone... and I particularly disliked how she somehow knew about Darkhan but was oblivious to the implication of the lack of Sunstriders, the dead scar, and how Sylvanas died.

Also a thing to remember is she was already working with Silvermoon's Enemies when she showed up trying to rope them back into the Alliance before her banishment.