Azshara is not a terrible person

[Yoshingo]

What the hell is with these threads in 2019 of people trying to legitimately argue that 100% evil characters aren't actually evil.

Can we just ban these dumb threads in 2020?

[Linuriel]

Yeah only wanted to kill all of us.

[Doffen]

Oh i see, yea I meant in the context of the thread. I thought you were trying to imply that the actions that made Azshara a terrible person didn't necessarily make her evil.

It's kinda like some actions automatically make you both (basically you couldn't reasonably be 'evil' without also being 'terrible').

I might have written it badly, what I meant is that being a terrible person doesn't necessarily make them evil. Not the other way around. Sorry for the confusion!

An evil person is indeed a terrible person.

[Talrath]

I understand that the night elven empire was awesome and that Azshara was the queen. However we dont really know who made the empire that big, was it just that the elfs had a normal steady growth or had a big sudden growth because of a ruler. We just dont know that much about the development of the empire, so we cant just contribute all the succes to Azshara. Lets just say it was already thriving when Azshara came into power, well then she didnt do alot. Because of this I wouldnt consider her better than Tyrande. Unlike Tyrande, Azshara is selfish and thought she could marry Sargeras, so she called to most dangerous entity to Azeroth, even killing countless of elves who didnt agree with her. Tyrande however would never do this, even though she is very incompetent, same goed for Malfurion.

Its best to switch Azshara with option:
1 - Jarod Shadowsong (idiot doesnt want to lead)
2 - Illidan (Horde would think twice attacking night elfs)
3 - One of the highborne prince`s
4 - Fandral Staghelm (even though he is dead, maybe shadowlands revival?)
5 - Introduce a new character that has the highest claim to be a king of night elfs

[lockybalboa]

Indeed she was just a bit vain that's it. I hope she gets to redeem herself eventually.

[drasi]

Why do people do this? lol. Weird!

[Powerogue]

6. She sold out the world to the Burning Legion and almost summoned Sargeras through the well of eternity in a move that would've made the Sundering look like a pandaren fart.

[matrix123mko]

6. She sold out the world to the Burning Legion and almost summoned Sargeras through the well of eternity in a move that would've made the Sundering look like a pandaren fart.

Tyrande serves a void lord.

[Krek01]

I would like it if some backstory of Azshara was further explored.

Perhaps gaining power was secondary to her (she already had power as queen, though getting more wouldn't hurt), but her primary goal would be gaining admiration - affection.

[StationaryHawk]

There's nothing redeemable about a leader that sacrificed her subjects to demons for the sake of power. Everything before that point is irrelevant.

[ravenmoon]

Tyrande serves a void LADY.

There, corrected it for ye! Gotta be PC

Yer welcome!

[Quaade]

At worst your entire bit about absolutist thinking is based on you using words that you don't exactly understand.

This is taken from developmental psychology and the developmental phases of the child. This is far from the first time you've singled me out by saying that there's something I "don't understand," only for me to point out that there are a lot of things in the things I "don't understand," that you lack understanding of. How does it feel to feel so bad about yourself that you can only feel good by putting yourself in a superior position to others?

The OP said that Azshara is "not terrible" and "not as bad as Gul'dan and some other characters". Going from there to "Azshara was good" takes something special. As such, the whole part about absolutist thought is rendered wrong when applied to the OP by default. Your conflation of "not terrible" with "good" would be the absolutist position here.

Even with a generous interpretation of her character, saying "she's not as terrible," is still an absolutist view given everything else we know about her. On a surface level yes, however, we know that beyond that surface level she's all "ME, ME, ME!!!" And pretending anything else to play Devil's Advocate is stupid beyond belief.

Finally, Sylvanas. Calling Sylvanas competent is not the same as calling Azshara good to begin with (let alone what the OP actually said). And why would you even refer to your thread when that thread is build upon blatant misrepresentations, special pleading and flat out wrong information? Case in point being the Jailer point, because Blizzard outright said Sylvanas does not serve him. Especially since all of that has already been pointed out to you in that thread.

This is just you saying that something is bad without proven the reason it's bad. If I'm so wrong you should be able to easily disprove me by taking the points and picking them apart and showing that they actually prove something else and that it's my interpretation that's flawed. Else it's just you saying "I'm superior to you so shut up!!!" and we 're too old for those kinds of childish outbursts.

Also, saying that she "doesn't serve the Jailer," is like saying "I don't serve the organisation/person that pays my salary." With everything else, she's done tricking Sylvanas into thinking that you're equal partners is as easy as, well, telling her that you're equal partners. And just because you tell someone something has no impact on it being true. This is called lying and it's easy to lie to someone so convinced of their own superiority that they never check anything. The Jailer has all the power in their relationship as without the Jailer Sylvanas would be an ornament on Icecrown. The Jailer has given her a power boost as it needs her to be it's agent in the mortal realm.

I hope that when we get her as raid boss she calls out to the Jailer for help and the Jailer just replies with, "no, you're too incompetent for me to waste any further power on you."

[Theoris]

Azshara is one of the few characters in Warcraft that I rank above Gul'dan in relation to being a horrible person.

[matrix123mko]

There, corrected it for ye! Gotta be PC

Yer welcome!

Thanks. I didn't think about that.

[ravenmoon]

Thanks. I didn't think about that.

Okay, my non-conformist, gender neutral friend insists it should be Void Entity as gender identifying pronouns are not allowed and like marriage, hetrosexuality and the patriarchy - there end is fast approaching.


The void overlord...oops Void overentities will ensure it.

[mickybrighteyes]

There, corrected it for ye! Gotta be PC

Yer welcome!

Did you just assumed it's gender!

[ravenmoon]

Did you just assumed it's gender!

ROFLMAO /10


oops, guilty!

[VladlTutushkin]

Let's get one thing straight - while Azshara may have done some unsavory things, as far as Warcraft characters go she is nowhere near Gul'dan, Sylvanas or Archimonde levels of evil. Here are some of Azshara's virtuous qualities:

1. Azshara pursued knowledge. She turned her palace into a massive research facility and had the Highborne study the Well of Eternity instead of engaging in their usual decadence. During her reign the Night Elves made remarkable breakthroughs in the understanding of leylines, the arcane and teleportation technologies.

What did Tyrande do during her reign? That's right, she lived in a treehouse until Sylvanas set it on fire and dedicated the Night Elves to the worship of a sky fairy that didn't answer their pleas for help when it mattered the most.

2. Azshara understood diplomacy. She forged a peace treaty with the Zandalari to stop their incursions into the Night Elven Empire and the peace actually lasted for years.

What did Tyrande's diplomacy accomplish? She couldn't even get her formal allies to help the Night Elves retake their lands.

3. Azshara tolerated other beliefs. While she may not have liked the Wild Gods, she tolerated them and let them live in peace on Mount Hyjal. And she built Temples of Elune even thought she thought the arcane was the greater power.

Tyrande, on the other hand, insulted Velen when he DARED suggest that Elune might be a Naaru even though she herself knows jackshit about Elune. And Velen is actually a lot older, more experienced and most importantly a better leader than her. Malfurion was right. Tyrande really should keep her mouth shut.

4. Azshara was progressive. Her inner circle consisted of both men and women. Even after her subjects were transformed into the Naga with men having a monstrous appearance and being more suited to melee combat, she still had equal representation in her court.

Tyrande, on the other hand, took an egalitarian society and turned it sexist with sharply divided gender roles. What the fuck, Tyrande?

5. But most important of all, Azshara cared for her subjects. Not in a benevolent way, but she saw them more as her toys and she didn't want other people hurting them. When push came to shove, she tried to save her empire with her own hands.

Tyrande doesn't care for anyone other than Malfurion. When Teldrassil was about to be occupied she convenient left the battlefield. Can you imagine Azshara abandoning her subjects and her capital to the enemy? I sure as hell can't.

I look forward to Azshara's redemption story. She should come back as the true queen of the Night Elves and restore them to their former glory. No more Elune worship, no more treehouses, no more hillbilly sexism. The Night Elves will rebuild their empire under Azshara's guidance and become a force to be reckoned with once more.

Bonus round: Azshara was classy and elegant. For all her ornaments and gems, Tyrande still looks gaudy rather than queenly.

During War of the Ancients Azshara summoned demons through power of the Well which slaughtered most of non-highborne citizens of Zin-Azshari. Her portrayal in a trailer is either false and goes against the lore or those people were all Highborne. She is not a good ruler, she pretty much offered her subjects to demons as a sacrifice.

[Kithelle]

This post tho... this could even work with a damn toy commercial.

Bad try dude.. my god /palm.


Ot: she is atleast 10 times more interesting compared to tyrande who sucks ass.

I am glad my girl Azshara lives on.. Nazjatar was a faillur tho.

How is she interesting at all? She is basically a spoiled privileged girl who had got handed everything but still wanted more, even if it cost everyone around her.

- - - Updated - - -

During War of the Ancients Azshara summoned demons through power of the Well which slaughtered most of non-highborne citizens of Zin-Azshari. Her portrayal in a trailer is either false and goes against the lore or those people were all Highborne. She is not a good ruler, she pretty much offered her subjects to demons as a sacrifice.

Just like Elisande...

- - - Updated - - -

Let's get one thing straight - while Azshara may have done some unsavory things, as far as Warcraft characters go she is nowhere near Gul'dan, Sylvanas or Archimonde levels of evil. Here are some of Azshara's virtuous qualities:

1. Azshara pursued knowledge. She turned her palace into a massive research facility and had the Highborne study the Well of Eternity instead of engaging in their usual decadence. During her reign the Night Elves made remarkable breakthroughs in the understanding of leylines, the arcane and teleportation technologies.

What did Tyrande do during her reign? That's right, she lived in a treehouse until Sylvanas set it on fire and dedicated the Night Elves to the worship of a sky fairy that didn't answer their pleas for help when it mattered the most.

2. Azshara understood diplomacy. She forged a peace treaty with the Zandalari to stop their incursions into the Night Elven Empire and the peace actually lasted for years.

What did Tyrande's diplomacy accomplish? She couldn't even get her formal allies to help the Night Elves retake their lands.

3. Azshara tolerated other beliefs. While she may not have liked the Wild Gods, she tolerated them and let them live in peace on Mount Hyjal. And she built Temples of Elune even thought she thought the arcane was the greater power.

Tyrande, on the other hand, insulted Velen when he DARED suggest that Elune might be a Naaru even though she herself knows jackshit about Elune. And Velen is actually a lot older, more experienced and most importantly a better leader than her. Malfurion was right. Tyrande really should keep her mouth shut.

4. Azshara was progressive. Her inner circle consisted of both men and women. Even after her subjects were transformed into the Naga with men having a monstrous appearance and being more suited to melee combat, she still had equal representation in her court.

Tyrande, on the other hand, took an egalitarian society and turned it sexist with sharply divided gender roles. What the fuck, Tyrande?

5. But most important of all, Azshara cared for her subjects. Not in a benevolent way, but she saw them more as her toys and she didn't want other people hurting them. When push came to shove, she tried to save her empire with her own hands.

Tyrande doesn't care for anyone other than Malfurion. When Teldrassil was about to be occupied she convenient left the battlefield. Can you imagine Azshara abandoning her subjects and her capital to the enemy? I sure as hell can't.

I look forward to Azshara's redemption story. She should come back as the true queen of the Night Elves and restore them to their former glory. No more Elune worship, no more treehouses, no more hillbilly sexism. The Night Elves will rebuild their empire under Azshara's guidance and become a force to be reckoned with once more.

Bonus round: Azshara was classy and elegant. For all her ornaments and gems, Tyrande still looks gaudy rather than queenly.

Apparently all it takes is being a pretty Elf with a nice bust and some people will forgive their atrocities no matter what...

[VladlTutushkin]

How is she interesting at all? She is basically a spoiled privileged girl who had got handed everything but still wanted more, even if it cost everyone around her.

- - - Updated - - -



Just like Elisande...

- - - Updated - - -



Apparently all it takes is being a pretty Elf with a nice bust and some people will forgive their atrocities no matter what...

She literally ruled the most powerful Empire Azeroth ever seen since the days of the Old Gods rule but she wanted to bang a Titan so she invited Legion of demons to Azeroth while she knew that this will lead to annihilation of most other races and massacre of her own people.