So how do you think Ally and Horde will go back to hating each other?

[Shiza]

That's why everyone loves the Horde though. They are the ones that make the game interesting. Do you really want to play a World of WARCRAFT where both factions sit around sucking each other off all day? Nothx.

Actually, outside of the Sylvanas or Garrosh Fanboys who are a vocal minority, nobody is enjoying that. Most Horde players are annoyed because their faction ends up being the villains, having their leaders removed and feeling like they have to buckle to the Alliance in the end while the Alliance players are annoyed that the Horde is allowed to destroy their faction further and further without any sense of retaliation or satisfying victories, because in the end they just have to forget and forgive all the crimes the Horde forgot when the strawman is removed and the Horde promises to be better.

So nobody ends up being happy and everyone is annoyed.

[Verdugo]

Actually, outside of the Sylvanas or Garrosh Fanboys who are a vocal minority, nobody is enjoying that. Most Horde players are annoyed because their faction ends up being the villains, having their leaders removed and feeling like they have to buckle to the Alliance in the end while the Alliance players are annoyed that the Horde is allowed to destroy their faction further and further without any sense of retaliation or satisfying victories, because in the end they just have to forget and forgive all the crimes the Horde forgot when the strawman is removed and the Horde promises to be better.

So nobody ends up being happy and everyone is annoyed.

Maybe they should try doing the faction war differently then, since this approach doesnt work.

[Shiza]

Maybe they should try doing the faction war differently then, since this approach doesnt work.

They won't, because they consider every shit they come up with genius which makes the likes of Tolkien, Martin or Sapkowski look like illiterates. It is easy to make two factions both interesting, different and grey, look at SWTOR, which accomplished it perfectly in the initial game. They will use this plotline over and over again and the best they will ever archieve is maybe the Alliance at some point being the evil ones once, if they ever sacrifice Anduin in an heroic act of martyrdom, four or five wars from now on.

[Nathasil]

They won't, because they consider every shit they come up with genius which makes the likes of Tolkien, Martin or Sapkowski look like illiterates. It is easy to make two factions both interesting, different and grey, look at SWTOR, which accomplished it perfectly in the initial game. They will use this plotline over and over again and the best they will ever archieve is maybe the Alliance at some point being the evil ones once, if they ever sacrifice Anduin in an heroic act of martyrdom, four or five wars from now on.

The problem of the Alliance is not its pure Good. The problem is that it never gets any kind of attention in the story at all. Even when one of our Vanilla Cities is burned down the Dev's comment on this is: "What does that mean for the Horde?".

MOP was an ENTIRE expansion about the Horde. WoD was 90% Horde. Legion was kinda "ok" but even there only in the Horde interesting things happened and ALL of the "prophecies" used by bosses were Horde-exclusive. BFA so far was the worst. The first raid was Horde-exclusive. The second raid somehow was meant to be the "Alliance-Vengeance-Patch" but adressed NOTHING and ended with Alliance players being forced to play the only meaningful portion of the entire patch as Horde. Crucible was also Horde-exclusive lorewise and the Alliance did not even get its own ending for the Faction-Story of the expansion...it was "allowed" to see the Saurfang ending while the Horde got an exclusive ending.

Not even gonna list all of the bugs and technical shortfalls that were only present in the Alliance content of this xpack simply because Blizzard does not play, test or care about it.
Not gonna go into any depth about Allied Races being a complete dumpster fire on the Alliance side with the only race that some people actually play being a complete lore abomination without any background-story at all.

Blizzard has given up on the Alliance ~10 years ago. They just don't give a fuck about one of the two factions in their two-faction game. Morals have very little to do with it. Attention and development distribution does.

If you think they can make the Alliance more interesting by using them as the bad-guy without giving the exact same attention that they gave to the Horde (=absolutely no story development and not even a MENTION of the Horde in 2 expansions) then all this will accomplish is killing it off even more than 10 years of complete neglect did.

[Paperfox]

Actually, outside of the Sylvanas or Garrosh Fanboys who are a vocal minority, nobody is enjoying that. Most Horde players are annoyed because their faction ends up being the villains, having their leaders removed and feeling like they have to buckle to the Alliance in the end while the Alliance players are annoyed that the Horde is allowed to destroy their faction further and further without any sense of retaliation or satisfying victories, because in the end they just have to forget and forgive all the crimes the Horde forgot when the strawman is removed and the Horde promises to be better.

So nobody ends up being happy and everyone is annoyed.

Until BfA I only played Alliance only occasionally or to get certain achievements (the one where you have 2 max level toons). This whole Sylvanas thing is so irritating I have spent most of BfA just playing Alliance toons.

Personally I would like to see Sylvanas sentenced to death by a court, rather than being killed as a raid / dungeon boss.

[Sondrelk]

Maybe they should try doing the faction war differently then, since this approach doesnt work.

Blizzard is too constrained by the inherent restrictions of having 2 factions who are both supposed to be the good one led astray.

The Alliance never gets to retaliate outside strictly walled of cases of the Horde having a known and out there psycopath/murderer like the Apothecaries or Sylvanas to attack, meaning they keep their squeaky clean image. They are never properly shown to have what one would imagine to be a sizeable part of the population who are rightly sick and tired of the Orc aliens still going around killing their allies.

The Horde meanwhile always gets a token showing of moral ambiguity like Darkshore with enslaving the furbolg or killing the civilians of Brennadam, but never in a way that the Horde players gets to see without going out of their way, or worse still, without having a convenient scapegoat like Sylvanas to pin it all on.
Instead the Horde spins on their heel after the token showing of bloodlust and/or genocide to explain how they totally dindu nuffin, and that it was all because of mean ol' [Horde Warchief] who led them astray and betrayed the Horde.


So in the end neither side gets to feel good about what they are doing.
Of course, without these limitations the story might focus on more intriguing storylines, like BfA being more about the Horde having to actually deal with their past and how easily they fall back into the old habits despite ostensibly wanting peace.
Or the Alliance having to choose whether they should limit their retribution to the main guilty party of the Horde or whether it is easier and safer to simply eradicate the lot with their canonically better army or weapons.

[Verdugo]

Blizzard is too constrained by the inherent restrictions of having 2 factions who are both supposed to be the good one led astray.

The Alliance never gets to retaliate outside strictly walled of cases of the Horde having a known and out there psycopath/murderer like the Apothecaries or Sylvanas to attack, meaning they keep their squeaky clean image. They are never properly shown to have what one would imagine to be a sizeable part of the population who are rightly sick and tired of the Orc aliens still going around killing their allies.

The Horde meanwhile always gets a token showing of moral ambiguity like Darkshore with enslaving the furbolg or killing the civilians of Brennadam, but never in a way that the Horde players gets to see without going out of their way, or worse still, without having a convenient scapegoat like Sylvanas to pin it all on.
Instead the Horde spins on their heel after the token showing of bloodlust and/or genocide to explain how they totally dindu nuffin, and that it was all because of mean ol' [Horde Warchief] who led them astray and betrayed the Horde.


So in the end neither side gets to feel good about what they are doing.
Of course, without these limitations the story might focus on more intriguing storylines, like BfA being more about the Horde having to actually deal with their past and how easily they fall back into the old habits despite ostensibly wanting peace.
Or the Alliance having to choose whether they should limit their retribution to the main guilty party of the Horde or whether it is easier and safer to simply eradicate the lot with their canonically better army or weapons.

Those limitations are clearly self-imposed.

[VladlTutushkin]

If I recall correctly, Garithos ordered them to defend against the scourge despite knowing they were completely under-equipped to do so (and pretty much knowing they'd die, which was his plan). He then tried to imprison and execute them for accepting the aid of the naga.

Garithos definitely wanted Kael and the elves dead one way or the other, lol.

Well denying your allies reinforcements and then forcing them to participate in suicide attacks/defenses is not bad apparently since Anduin did just that to night elfs.

- - - Updated - - -

Kael wanted to be on the frontline, with the rest of the army, Garithos then sent them to repair scout towers, which detected a massive scourge army en route to dalaran, Garithos withdrew any kind of support and then told Kael to deal with it, which pretty much forced Kael to ally with the naga or die then and there, he then accepted responsibility for this action offering to die as the commanding officer, which Garithos refused sentencing them all to death.

Takes your troops when it suits him and then sends you to suicide mission... where have i seen that in BfA hmmm...

[Ehrenpanzer]

If there is one thing that'll NEVER change in WoW, it's the feud between both factions (lorewise). Even Ion stated in Blizzcon that the faction vs faction dynamic is a staple of WoW and will never go away.


However, right now, the Horde and Alliance leadership are pretty much all sucking each other off in a big love orgy after they defeated Sylvannas. Thrall and Jaina are over there hold hands. Baine and Jaina are over there making out. First Arcanist Thalyssra and Jaina are over there scissoring. Anduin and the charred remains of Saurfang's corpse is over there 69in'.

So what now? There is too much love between the factions. How will they start hating each other again so we can get back to the status quo.

*Insert complete and total fucking fanfic level writing about a Horde leader going bad, kill some alliance because "reasons", then insert a "but gaiz, our HoNoRz!!!!!" storyline.. rinse and repeat until most of the playerbase has left for Classic.

[Saverem]

*Insert complete and total fucking fanfic level writing about a Horde leader going bad, kill some alliance because "reasons", then insert a "but gaiz, our HoNoRz!!!!!" storyline.. rinse and repeat until most of the playerbase has left for Classic.

Most playerbase are already coming back from Classic, myself included. Trying to get that 70 neck before 8.3, boiiiiiiiiiiiii.

My Classic guild that was farming MC a month ago already broke up.

[allawyn]

Until BfA I only played Alliance only occasionally or to get certain achievements (the one where you have 2 max level toons). This whole Sylvanas thing is so irritating I have spent most of BfA just playing Alliance toons.

Personally I would like to see Sylvanas sentenced to death by a court, rather than being killed as a raid / dungeon boss.

I unsubscribed. But if I come back, I will almost certainly switch to Alliance. Not only has Blizzard totally made the Horde unenjoyable, but they show no sigh they won't keep screwing them over.

I may play WOW again, but I don't see my self playing Horde again.

[Soon-TM]

I unsubscribed. But if I come back, I will almost certainly switch to Alliance. Not only has Blizzard totally made the Horde unenjoyable, but they show no sigh they won't keep screwing them over.

I may play WOW again, but I don't see my self playing Horde again.

Maybe that was the point all the way, to discourage ppl from playing Horde by tearing it down to shambles /tinfoilhat

[Scottyjscizzle]

Let the Kaldorei kick some ass for once, have us slaughtering sympathizers for their role in the genocide, but wait I forgot Tyrande "got her revenge".

[Varodoc]

Maybe that was the point all the way, to discourage ppl from playing Horde by tearing it down to shambles /tinfoilhat

Yeah, they discourage people from playing Horde by having the Horde effortlessly blow up one of the most iconic Alliance cities in the game.

[Soon-TM]

Yeah, they discourage people from playing Horde by having the Horde effortlessly blow up one of the most iconic Alliance cities in the game.

Darnassus, iconic? Hardly. Even Theramore was more iconic than the asspull that was Darnassus. Not to speak of !@#$ing Lordaeron, which was plagued into oblivion just to underline how EVUL is Sylvie /cackle

[Varodoc]

Darnassus, iconic? Hardly. Even Theramore was more iconic than the asspull that was Darnassus. Not to speak of !@#$ing Lordaeron, which was plagued into oblivion just to underline how EVUL is Sylvie /cackle

In fact I was referring to Southshore but okay.

[Daedius]

He looked at me!

[vilememory]

The Horde starts cutting down trees and killing night elves who claim that where ever there is forest that is night elf land. No mention is made that the night elves have been abusing druidic powers by making forests grow literally overnight over vast swaths of Kalimdor. The Barrens is now all angry tentacle trees, Thousand Needles is starting to sprout underwater forests. Desolace is completely covered in thick woods, and the tauren of Mulgore are doing their best to beat back the encroaching forest. Filled with Tyrande's murder happy vengance elves, but once again the Horde is in the wrong for invading this new night elf land.

HA HA! Yeah right, as if the Alliance would ever do something morally gray or out right bad. Nah, going to be Sylvanas loyalists doing terrorist attacks and single digit IQ orcs joining in.

[Feanoro]

Yeah, they discourage people from playing Horde by having the Horde effortlessly blow up one of the most iconic Alliance cities in the game.

How many cities and towns have they destroyed now? It's easy to lose count.

And yeah, they also discourage people from playing Horde by:
- making every single bit of the story about the Horde for YEARS
- all cinematics ultimately about the Horde
- raids that are canonically done by the Horde
- let the Horde rampage around with no fear whatsoever of repercussions
- advertise the game with Horde characters and iconography
- lead Horde cheers at Blizzcon
- ask "What does burning down Darnassus mean for the Horde"

I could list plenty more, and it's still not enough for the Hordies here. We get it, until Alliance is deleted, you won't be happy. Of course, then you'll bitch because you don't have anyone for your BGs, but hey you'll have "won".

[Varodoc]

How many cities and towns have they destroyed now? It's easy to lose count.

And yeah, they also discourage people from playing Horde by:
- making every single bit of the story about the Horde for YEARS
- all cinematics ultimately about the Horde
- raids that are canonically done by the Horde
- let the Horde rampage around with no fear whatsoever of repercussions
- advertise the game with Horde characters and iconography
- lead Horde cheers at Blizzcon
- ask "What does burning down Darnassus mean for the Horde"

And it's still not enough for the Hordies here. We get it, until Alliance is deleted, you won't be happy. Of course, then you'll bitch because you don't have anyone for your BGs, but hey you'll have "won".

I think you forgot "Shitting on PvP Alliance at BlizzCon", unless that was included in "Lead Horde cheers at BlizzCon".