TBC had better gearing system, you didnt waste 2-3 hours in a raid without ANYTHING, you would get badges. Pvp wasn't a measure of time but skills, which can't be stressed enough. I can't wait for TBC!
TBC had better gearing system, you didnt waste 2-3 hours in a raid without ANYTHING, you would get badges. Pvp wasn't a measure of time but skills, which can't be stressed enough. I can't wait for TBC!
The weak fear the shadows... fear controls them!
Not disagreeing on the homogenization, but that was not felt in Burning Crusade as much as it was in later expansions. It was a gradual change in response to trying to balance arenas. Burning Crusade is a point where they still have the original class design but implemented a skill based PvP system. I have in the past said that for the imbalance BC had, it was a charming imbalance where the game still felt like an RPG. Overall, it was a step in the right direction from the honor system.
Ultimately things like the debuff limit and some classes being flat out broken in vanilla makes it a mess. BC fixed many classes, or at least brought them into the right direction, without destroying the original class identities.
For the record, if they did decide to add content to Classic or BC that was not in the original versions I think a rated battleground system would be a great choice.
You're not wrong but personally i did have a very love / hate relation with Arena in TBC.
The issue was that simply due to the Rock, Paper, Scissor design, you could practically concede a match once you saw the opponents comp.
If you played something like Resto Shaman / Warrior in 2v2 and played vs Mage / Rogue, you're probably fucked.
The mage just cc's your Warrior until hell freezes over and the Rogue keeps the Shaman stunlocked.
Even if you somehow manage to screw them, they can just force a reset.
Another example, imagine a certain Mana drain comp, if you played like Disc/Rogue, you just straight up lost vs Hunter/Druid, because you couldn't dispel poison effects and you'll be OOM to Viper Sting within minutes.
Or losing a game to some random stun effect.
In Vanilla, it was annoying to die due to some stun effect, but you shrugged it off because the entire game didn't depend on your survival (at least in general), but in Arena, these random stun effects just cost you the entire match and that was tilting as fuck.
The game wasn't simply designed around a 3v3 combat situation, where a single death meant defeat and you felt that in TBC.
I don't take sides in this. WoW pre-WoD was a great game and I'll play any of it that they release even if certain expansions have downsides.
Stopped right there as you clearly don't know the distinction of vanilla and TBC pvt servers. Most vanilla ones easily made it all the way to Naxx clears with a healthy amount of guilds, all TBC realms died before BT was even close to coming out as players quit in droves. This difference is what we're talking about here; an insane dropoff of TBC players vs vanilla players on private servers, pointing towards something flawed in TBC vs the vanilla counterpart which didn't stood the test of time. It's about the relative dropoff, of course retail is gonna have more players than a pvt server....
Classic right now has more or less the same dropoff as vanilla pvt servers had (aka not much), saying playerbase is different is a way too simple argument as the entire top tier of classic currently has 90% pvt server ppl. As for vanilla pvt servers dying: Emerald Dream killed by Athairne himself as he got bored/made enough money, Nost killed by admins, Kronos very much alive until Naxx, both 1 and 3, Lightshope also very much alive and cleared Naxx. Not once did a realm die because of players _quitting_ . All TBC realms bar the one that was online for 1 day (lol) died because they lost their players within a month of TBC. First week 3 guild karazhan runs, second week 1 run, third week guild merges, and then rip with almost everyone moving back to their vanilla realm they came from, or moving to WotLK ones, which _did_ retain playerbases all around.
Last edited by Outofmana; 2019-12-28 at 02:44 PM.
SMall scale arena is terrible
Anyone who disagrees is probably terrible
Prefer the vanilla honor system to that crap
- - - Updated - - -
Seems like the only people who play these old servers are pvpers....so idk
Def not gonna be a mini game the second time around lol
If you playing any older mmo purely for pve you're not gonna have a good time.
none forces you to play TBC, i want to play Karazhan again but apart from that i dont see myself "reliving" the past and this comes from someone that cleared all content and was 2k+ every arena season in "original" TBC.
then those people should not play on PvP servers simple as that, its not about being an asshole ITS PART OF THE GAME.
Have you even played on Darrowshire? That realm was dying already by the time AQ released, and even Anathema, despite being on Naxx patch, had more players. In the end, it was Darrowshire that was merged into Anathema and not the other way around - despite the fact Darrowshire was the only PvE server while there was also Lightbringer as a (massively more popular) PvP server.
Meanwhile on Classic, ALL the PvE servers are currently bustling - at least EU-side - with Mirage Raceway, Pyrewood Village and Nethergarde Keep almost reaching overpopulation levels. The few realms that died or are crippled EU-side are PvP ones - Flamelash most famously, but many others are at risk.
If you think you're going to see the same pattern on official TBC servers that you saw on pservers, then you're in for massive disappointment.
This is the post I was quoting.
"Wait, seriously? You think Vanilla and TBC were anything but framed around raiding? WoW has always been a raiding game design front and center."
Since he said vanilla and "always a raiding game" I was making my comments around raiding in vanilla. Are you deliberately trying to derail by misrepresenting my posts?
The most difficult thing to do is accept that there is nothing wrong with things you don't like and accept that people can like things you don't.
Was just about to say.
And if there are enough people to go around, world pvp will happen. With or without flying.
You just have to get people out of the cities into the world. Most people go out of the cities to get materials and the like. So more of that.
I mean.. whats more annoying than the guy that's farming the same shit you're farming?
What better solution than to just kill him? And for those that really rather just compete passively there are always the PvE servers.
But ultimately this is what gets people going. I remember Quel'Danas as an always busy place during primetime.
Why? Because people had to be there to get their shit done. And it was glorious.
Last edited by Evolixe; 2019-12-30 at 04:01 AM.
Flying never killed World PvP. Resilience killed World PvP because it turned quick skirmishes into several minute slugfests if someone was geared (boring) and if one person had PvP gear and the other person didn't it was an absolute slaughter.
AchaeaKoralin - Are you still out there? | Classic Priest
I'm so sick of people not reading past the headline and linking that stupid article every time arena is mentioned
If you read the article the actual quote/interview, he talks about HOW it was implemented was a mistake, not planning or designing it from the beginning of wow's development - which caused the need of various band aid fixes like resilience, let alone class mechanics/balance issues.
Agreed.
TBC was the beginning of the end.
Fuck it.
#NEVERTBC
Calling it now, TBC releases and all the classic servers are absolute ghost towns. Not exactly a bold prediction but its going to be pretty funny.
TBC was a true expansion. It took what was there and expanded upon it. No reinvent the whole game. No systems designed upon systems for systems sake. Just an expansion. I think it's only weakness was it took a massive world and really shrunk it down to the BC area for the most part. Flying at the time was alright because it was limited to BC areas and in those areas you had zones designed to need flying.