Mega-Thread: Democratic 2020 Primaries

[Spectral]

Interesting poll about the general election in Virginia, showing Trump leading all the democrat candidates except for Biden. Who leads Trump by 4 points. Virginia is considered now to be a democrat state. And I understand this is only one poll and it is way too early to take them seriously. But I still found it interesting Trump is doing this well according to this one poll there.

So far, most polls are still showing Biden with the best chance to beat Trump.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/do...ember_2019.pdf

From the story at Richmond.com:

Biden had the highest favorability rating in the poll at 51%, compared with 45% for Trump, 36% for Warren, 35% for Sanders and 33% for Buttigieg, the least well-known of the candidates in the survey.

Buttigieg had the lowest unfavorability rating at 30%, compared with 33% for Biden, 48% for Trump, 51% for Warren and 52% for Sanders.

This is something I've been harping on and for whatever reason Dems seem to believe it's just an illusion or something, but Sanders and Warren are deep underwater when it comes to net favorability, even compared to Trump (who is himself an historically disliked political figure). Looking at the breakdowns there, independents prefer Trump to Warren by a 56-33 margin and Trump to Sanders by a 60-34 margin. While self-identified Dems like Warren and Sanders pretty well, independent voters just really, really don't like these two.

Biden seems like the only real option to get above water on likability, but he still doesn't do well compared to past candidates. Somehow the Dems have managed to find a group of candidates that is just disliked across the board by people outside the party.

[Blur4stuff]

Biden is the closest thing to another Hillary in this race. He'd obviously do better than she did against Trump, but that lets you know why so many republicans pretend that if Biden were an option they might vote for him even though we know that's a lie.

[kaelleria]

From the story at Richmond.com:

This is something I've been harping on and for whatever reason Dems seem to believe it's just an illusion or something, but Sanders and Warren are deep underwater when it comes to net favorability, even compared to Trump (who is himself an historically disliked political figure). Looking at the breakdowns there, independents prefer Trump to Warren by a 56-33 margin and Trump to Sanders by a 60-34 margin. While self-identified Dems like Warren and Sanders pretty well, independent voters just really, really don't like these two.

Biden seems like the only real option to get above water on likability, but he still doesn't do well compared to past candidates. Somehow the Dems have managed to find a group of candidates that is just disliked across the board by people outside the party.

What's more hilarious about the set of polls your referencing is that 30% of the people polled have no opinion or have never heard of Buttigieg.

Back of the Biden/Buttigieg thing that as been blown way out of proportion...

The headline is literally the first part of the sentence of an answer to an interview question.... the second part of the sentence states that this entire thing is a distraction.

“So, I would not have wanted to see that happen, and at the same time, again, I think this is being used to divert attention from what’s really at stake in the impeachment process. There’s been no allegation, let alone finding of any kind of wrongdoing.”

But hey no one reads past headlines.

[Kontinuum]

Biden proclaims the 'European' identity of America: "Our culture is not imported from some African nation."
https://twitter.com/mooncult/status/...016106496?s=20

based and redpilled

[Levelfive]

Biden proclaims the 'European' identity of America: "Our culture is not imported from some African nation."
https://twitter.com/mooncult/status/...016106496?s=20

based and redpilled

Sounds right up (a certain subset of) Trump voters' alley.

[starlord]

Biden proclaims the 'European' identity of America: "Our culture is not imported from some African nation."
https://twitter.com/mooncult/status/...016106496?s=20

based and redpilled

that is edited propaganda.

Former Vice President Joe Biden urged Americans to tackle a "white man's culture" dating back centuries that has allowed violence against women to perpetuate.

Biden has long worked to prevent violence against women, but his comments are notable coming amid speculation that he is close to entering the 2020 Democratic presidential field, the most diverse in history.

"We all have an obligation to do nothing less than change the culture in this country," Biden said at an event at the Russian Tea Room in New York City Tuesday night, which was hosted by the Biden Foundation and It's On Us, honoring students who have worked to end sexual assault on college campuses. "This is English jurisprudential culture, a white man's culture. It's got to change."

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/03/27/p...mpression=true

There is a maliciously edited clip of
@JoeBiden
talking about "culture" taken utterly out of context.
Here is the full video from Derry, NH, Dec 30.
Biden is saying the opposite:
"We have to change the culture." (51 minutes in)

https://mobile.twitter.com/jedshug/s...087917568?s=21

[Levelfive]

that is edited propaganda.



https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/03/27/p...mpression=true


https://mobile.twitter.com/jedshug/s...087917568?s=21

There was a link in the thread to a Guardian article from March that covers this that I considered pointing out, but I'm at the point where I think we have to stop countenancing--and addressing and correcting and defending ourselves from--attacks from the right on Democrats for behavior they champion in the right. Explaining that it's "taken out of context" and citing various sources is not merely ineffective, it's counterproductive--it really just gives the story legs it doesn't deserve when it should be dismissed out of hand with, "You should love it, then."

ETA the article's post date.

[starlord]

There was a link in the thread to a Guardian article that covers this that I considered pointing out, but I'm at the point where I think we have to stop countenancing--and addressing and correcting and defending ourselves from--attacks from the right on Democrats for behavior they champion in the right. Explaining that it's "taken out of context" and citing various sources is not merely ineffective, it's counterproductive--it really just gives the story legs it doesn't deserve when it should be dismissed out of hand with, "You should love it, then."

i think its worth pointing out falsehoods and propaganda for those who have a hard time differentiating such things (and saving others time looking it up.)

[Machismo]

i think its worth pointing out falsehoods and propaganda for those who have a hard time differentiating such things (and saving others time looking it up.)

Yes, I highly recommend calling people out on their lies and bullshit, and make sure to continuously remind people that they are liars and bullshitters. Let that mark them for life.

[Levelfive]

i think its worth pointing out falsehoods and propaganda for those who have a hard time differentiating such things (and saving others time looking it up.)

Oh I understand, for sure. But it's the method that needs changing--this particular approach from Democrats to address lies doesn't work, it doesn't stick, and it doesn't matter. If it did, we wouldn't have had to explain ad nauseum that Ukraine meddling in 2016 was a Russian-led conspiracy theory Putin hand-fed to Trump or that Joe Biden didn't bribe Ukraine, etc., etc., etc. It's the same reason "fighting" trolls anywhere is a losing proposition, the same way fighting fire with oxygen is. It doesn't matter that we're right and that the facts support us. Republicans have known for a long time that it's an ad campaign that wins on visceral taglines, and they're unusually good at it. So good, in fact, that they managed to accrue enough power to structurally rig the system to keep us out while Democrats have been citing facts and offering up policy proposals.

We need to change how we do things if we want to be in a position to get anything done.

[MasterK]

Snip

We need to change how we do things if we want to be in a position to get anything done.

We could start with losing the hyperbole used for everything. You can't read the MSM or "bombshell on this", "that person got destroyed". Secondly there should be an active role in parenting and schools, to teach that not everything (I dare even say the opposite) on the Internet/Social Media is true. Do your own research, form your own conclusions.

[starlord]

*shrugs* there's no silver bullet for fighting propaganda, but identifying it is step 1.

in other news, apparently bernie's ideas are so popular now that he's lost some support because of it. strange paradox, but it seems to be common among dem (and potential dem) voters from what i've seen.

CONCORD, N.H. — The labor unions that powered Bernie Sanders to a decisive victory here in 2016 are declining to get on board his campaign this time around — a potential warning sign for the neighbor-state senator’s hopes of a repeat performance.

One of the largest labor groups, which represents more than 10,000 New Hampshire state employees, broke with its national leadership when it issued an early endorsement of Sanders in the 2016 primary. Electrical workers joined a coalition of other unions to turbocharge the Sanders turnout operation that year.

.........

Now, both organizations are remaining on the sidelines, refusing to pick a single candidate when several would suit them fine. Sanders is going to great lengths to lure their support — his campaign recently offered a free steak dinner to union members and hosted a rally for state employees who are fighting for a new contract. But nothing has moved the needle.
“There's a lot of candidates talking about what he talked about last time,” said Rich Gulla, the president of SEIU 1984, which represents the state’s employees. “Look at the field and look at the polling. I could talk to a dozen different members and get a dozen different responses on who they like. There's just too many in the field right now to narrow that down.”

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...-unions-092271

[Spectral]

that is edited propaganda.

"This is English jurisprudential culture, a white man's culture. It's got to change."

One does wonder what's so wrong with English jurisprudence and "white man's culture" that it's got to change though

[Machismo]

One does wonder what's so wrong with English jurisprudence and "white man's culture" that it's got to change though

Well, considering the renewed push for ethno-nationalism within this country, I'd say there's plenty that should change. Some of us don't want to live in the 1950's, much less the 1850's.

[Spectral]

Well, considering the renewed push for ethno-nationalism within this country, I'd say there's plenty that should change. Some of us don't want to live in the 1950's, much less the 1850's.

Over half of the children born in the United States are non-white. There is no reasonable or realistic concern to be had about ethno-nationalism - it's a bogeyman. The country will be majority minority in ~20-25 years. The ethno-nationalists lost, there's no good reason for endless handwringing over them.

[Machismo]

Over half of the children born in the United States are non-white. There is no reasonable or realistic concern to be had about ethno-nationalism - it's a bogeyman. The country will be majority minority in ~20-25 years. The ethno-nationalists lost, there's no good reason for endless handwringing over them.

Tell that to the guy who hired Stephen Miller.

[JohnBrown1917]

Over half of the children born in the United States are non-white. There is no reasonable or realistic concern to be had about ethno-nationalism - it's a bogeyman. The country will be majority minority in ~20-25 years. The ethno-nationalists lost, there's no good reason for endless handwringing over them.

Yet they are still in power.

[Draco-Onis]

Over half of the children born in the United States are non-white. There is no reasonable or realistic concern to be had about ethno-nationalism - it's a bogeyman. The country will be majority minority in ~20-25 years. The ethno-nationalists lost, there's no good reason for endless handwringing over them.

Babies can vote now and influence policy? news to me.

[Spectral]

Babies can vote now and influence policy? news to me.

It's a marker of where the nation's ethnic composition is headed. Worrying about "ethno-nationalism" is about on par with Republicans telling people that the communists are coming for them. It's not happening, it's in history's dustbin, they lost and there's nothing that can really change that at this point.

So anyway, why does Joe Biden think "white man's culture" needs to change?

[JohnBrown1917]

Babies can vote now and influence policy? news to me.

They can, and the majority in the US also decides who holds power.

- - - Updated - - -

It's a marker of where the nation's ethnic composition is headed. Worrying about "ethno-nationalism" is about on par with Republicans telling people that the communists are coming for them. It's not happening, it's in history's dustbin, they lost and there's nothing that can really change that at this point.

So anyway, why does Joe Biden thing "white man's culture" needs to change?

Lets just keep ignoring they are in power and that you need the majority to stay in power.