Please tell me how Nightborne being monks before druids makes sense?

[Halyon]

Pff, they had one druid-esque boss, same as belves way back in BC. I personally think every race should be able to be anything, but with an appropriate skin when the base class doesn't make sense.

Druidism is a lifestyle too, i agree, but when a race was forbidden to be in contact with nature for so long - 10000years, and somehow managed to have a botanist inside suramar for 10k years, just proves a point that no matter how nature and balance is taken from them, they still have it in them. Introducing druid on nightborne straight after freeing them, would be wrong, but with time, i can see them adding druid class to nightbornes.

Tbh though, I think that was less druid and more dedication and alchemy shenanigans.

[ravenmoon]

Well he is still right, cause on tauren mythology they are the "first druids".

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Forestlord...e_first_Druids

But in the "canonicity" part says "According to Micky Neilson and Blizzard historians, the first druid was, in fact, Malfurion Stormrage, not the tauren"
so to me i think it was canon for Malfurion to be the first druid, but i think taurens were supposed to be the first ones.

Ain't totally unrealistically to say that it's a tauren thing and a trolls thing, cause even the night elves came from trolls.

Well nothing is unrealistic if it's in the game, as long as it is there, it is a reality for the lore.

You have picked up on the nuance in the story, and here is how it is generally accepted and unravelled. Because the lore officially states Malfurion is the first druid, and doesn't retract this even when it reveals that Taurens did train wtih Cenarius before MAlfruion did, but then, so did night elves as well, before the sundering period where Malfruion meets Cenarius.

The lore clarifies that actually these guys weren't druids, but an earlier form of what would become to be called druids. So it is a bit misleading to call those Tauren or early night elves druids, even though that's the easiest way to recognise what they are. Simply put, they're not actually druids, but the art they practice would be part of what comes to be called a druid after Malfurion Stormrage trains with Cenarius.

Trolls as druids is a reality too, but only added to recently, and lore is given for them. Trolls also used arcane before night elves did, but night elves became the first mages, as they were the first to study magic and make the sophisticated art and craft that constitutes the mage class. we even get to discover their level of magecraft was so highly developed, todays races haven't even caught up and still search for the many lost tomes and objects of power they left behind in the sundering. AS the Darrnassians refused to pick it up, and the high elves are exiled under a magic ban 3,000 years into the exile, most of the elven knowledge is lost till the Shend'rlalar are unveiled, and the nightborne and moonguard later.

My guess is that it won't be long until they've caught up, now both have rejoined their elven kin on both factions. But hwo knows, it's not like blizzard is precise on these things.

[Syegfryed]

Druidism is a lifestyle too, i agree, but when a race was forbidden to be in contact with nature for so long - 10000years, and somehow managed to have a botanist inside suramar for 10k years, just proves a point that no matter how nature and balance is taken from them, they still have it in them. Introducing druid on nightborne straight after freeing them, would be wrong, but with time, i can see them adding druid class to nightbornes.

and they sure don't have a druidic lifestyle either, just because they had a garden and one gardener who mixed his arcane shenanignas with plants don't mean they will be druids too

botanists are not rly druids since they use arcane to manipulate the nature, and druids in wow are strict nature wield users and theyd able with the emerald dream, even when they manipulate more the death aspect of the life/nature magic like the drusts

all shamans races would have a better chance of being druids, making way more sense than those arcane elves

[Shakana]

and they sure don't have a druidic lifestyle either, just because they had a garden and one gardener who mixed his arcane shenanignas with plants don't mean they will be druids too

botanists are not rly druids since they use arcane to manipulate the nature, and druids in wow are strict nature wield users and theyd able with the emerald dream, even when they manipulate more the death aspect of the life/nature magic like the drusts

all shamans races would have a better chance of being druids, making way more sense than those arcane elves

I couldn't agree more with you but i can agree with my selfish self that druids can exist too on nightborne. Because nightbornes deserve a chance of being free and decide to do whatever the goddamn they want after being stuck from that long-drainy-sucking-no-sun-wtv-more-words-i-can-put-here-to-describe-this.

I think they deserve to choose their own ways now. Give some loveee to nightbornes.

[ravenmoon]

Pff, they had one druid-esque boss, same as belves way back in BC. I personally think every race should be able to be anything, but with an appropriate skin when the base class doesn't make sense.




Tbh though, I think that was less druid and more dedication and alchemy shenanigans.

Alchemy shenanigans is what you see with the goblins and forsaken, this is much more than that, the bloodelf dude turns into a tree, and there is a fully fledged ancient ant theend of the Botanica instance.

My point is that the elven races do have a lot of nature love in them, and fans are kinda crossing wires by thinking if you're great at arcane you hate nature or can't use it or vice versa when the evidence is overwhelming and the best you can say, is that arcane elven societies just don't wield nature as passionately as the druidic centred Darnassians.. but ot think they don't love nature or have no aptitude or for some un-explained reason can't wield it is demonstrably incorrect with examples such as Suramar, the Botanica, the Nighthold, EVersong Woods zone and the quests that show this. The nightborne even have part of their main sotry line working with a druid, and at the end you see val'sharah refugees start healing nature in uramar and joining the Nightfallen Rebellion. To think that somehow they wouldn't have access to druidsm or be unable to wield it or that Monk training would some how be more prevalent doesn't add up.

It's just probably one of those things that blizzard either are going to come back to later with an expanded storyline that has been shelved or put on hold, or they forgot because it wasn't important, you never know with them.

[Shakana]

Tbh though, I think that was less druid and more dedication and alchemy shenanigans.

Hmm yea, herbalism/alchemy totally. Man i love alchemy, you have no idea, i love more alchemy than anything in this game related to it. Even the profession is my most appealing one to have on my characters. - I not-so-secretly have been asking even for blizzard to give like profession order halls/housing.

[ravenmoon]

and they sure don't have a druidic lifestyle either, just because they had a garden and one gardener who mixed his arcane shenanignas with plants don't mean they will be druids too

botanists are not rly druids since they use arcane to manipulate the nature, and druids in wow are strict nature wield users and theyd able with the emerald dream, even when they manipulate more the death aspect of the life/nature magic like the drusts

all shamans races would have a better chance of being druids, making way more sense than those arcane elves

However your race doesn't have to have a druidic based lifestyle to be able to become druids last I checked. Nature love, nature aptitude, and druidic teachers would be the key requirements, and judging from the Nightborne lore we saw, they have all 3.

And yes Botanists aren't really druids, but are sure much further along the way than o thers, with a fully trained druid and incentive for nature (such as the aracn'dor, not to mention 10k years only in a city), I think there is sufficient motivation amongst that race. What i don't get is why Tauren highmountain who have no interaction with druids or evidence of drudism in all their quest zones are automatically able to be druids.. to me it just demonstrates a lack of understadning of the lore by the system teams in giving the class combos. They missed that one. I dont' auto assume highmountain tauren can be druids just because they are tauren, then neglect to show any sign of it in their zone. CLearly it asn't part of the highmountain tauren by decision of the creative team, but was part of the nightboren, yet highmountain got it, but nightborne didn't as a class option. But it figures, creative doesn't determine classes, though they may advise on it, it's the system team that does this.

[Shakana]

Alchemy shenanigans is what you see with the goblins and forsaken, this is much more than that, the bloodelf dude turns into a tree, and there is a fully fledged ancient ant theend of the Botanica instance.

My point is that the elven races do have a lot of nature love in them, and fans are kinda crossing wires by thinking if you're great at arcane you hate nature or can't use it or vice versa when the evidence is overwhelming and the best you can say, is that arcane elven societies just don't wield nature as passionately as the druidic centred Darnassians.. but ot think they don't love nature or have no aptitude or for some un-explained reason can't wield it is demonstrably incorrect with examples such as Suramar, the Botanica, the Nighthold, EVersong Woods zone and the quests that show this. The nightborne even have part of their main sotry line working with a druid, and at the end you see val'sharah refugees start healing nature in uramar and joining the Nightfallen Rebellion. To think that somehow they wouldn't have access to druidsm or be unable to wield it or that Monk training would some how be more prevalent doesn't add up.

It's just probably one of those things that blizzard either are going to come back to later with an expanded storyline that has been shelved or put on hold, or they forgot because it wasn't important, you never know with them.

Well, druids have access to arcane on boomy. Isn't that proof enough that arcane ain't a wall between being a druid and practicing that magic? Can at least say they would master the boomy, while the rest needs to be learnt.

[Dellis0991]

I don't understand why this didn't happen. Valewalker Farodin's close and integral role with the nightborne as well as the Val'sharah druids and priest refugees who join them up, not to mention the very active Botanists who work with nature magic amongst the nightborne...


This demonstrates both an aptitude for nature and relationships with druids who are actively help and like them. Valewalker Farodin is fond of them. Furthermore you see they have members that love nature, why aren't they druids?

The Arcan'dor the centre of their new identity replacing the Nightwell with its dual arcane/nature composition

How the F*** are they able to be monks before druids...?


I don't understand...? Druidsm in wow no longer efels elven, seriously 1 out of 6 playable druids are elves. It feels more a troll/tauren thing now. I use to feel druidsm was the elven equivalent of other races shamanism, a more intellectual approach to nature full of elven softness and love for the beauty of nature.. it has that tone for it. Whiles shamanism felt more Tauren/orc/troll like - based not on love but on respect/fear for nature of w hich the lements are a major part of (just as when we think of natural sources, we think of wind, storms earthquakes, as well as trees and animals - it's all part of nature in our understanding).

Anyway, druidsm in wow had a distinct elven feel to it that it has lost by the failure to bring it to the other elven groups. The most likely candidate were the nightborne.

Suramar was a city full of arcane magic users and they were elves who were at the top of the caste system while druidism flourished in in the low class and was seen as lesser power, dirty and uncouth. Cities like Suramar did not value druidism but it it did value arcane users who could use arcane magic to alter plants in unnatural ways like infusing them with mana or shaping a plant that would only have certain quality or taste a different way then it normally would. Also druids would feel very uncomfortable in any city that went against the flow of nature. For a example a druid would never hinder the growth of plants, but a elf of Suramar would see that plant as a weed in the way of perfection. Also any and all races used the fist before the weapon and I can imagine with nightborme its all vanity ( a sound mind and a sound body is perfection) so them being monks isn't a pull at all.

[Shakana]

Suramar was a city full of arcane magic users and they were elves who were at the top of the caste system while druidism flourished in in the low class and was seen as lesser power, dirty and uncouth. Cities like Suramar did not value druidism but it it did value arcane users who could use arcane magic to alter plants in unnatural ways like infusing them with mana or shaping a plant that would only have certain quality or taste a different way then it normally would. Also druids would feel very uncomfortable in any city that went against the flow of nature. For a example a druid would never hinder the growth of plants, but a elf of Suramar would see that plant as a weed in the way of perfection.

Nightbornes have a emote of silly:
Night elves? More like country elves! They live in trees, sleep in dens... sometimes even grow antlers. They're not cut out for life in a REAL city.

Although, a night elf ain't exclusively a druid, they can have other classes, and taurens? don't sleep in trees for example.
My point is that a druid, can exist in many ways as long as you have what is needed to be one, the origins and roots are there, but are with the time passing by druidism can be more malleable and expand the druid "community" and cooping with arcane user beings.

[ravenmoon]

Well, druids have access to arcane on boomy. Isn't that proof enough that arcane ain't a wall between being a druid and practicing that magic? Can at least say they would master the boomy, while the rest needs to be learnt.

Should be, but alas, sometimes you have to actually point it out. Thereis more too, the fact that it is druids mainly that use the waters of the well of Eternity and their arcane energies to boost the land through theMoonwell creations is also further evidence too. Also the lore tells us that the arcane boosts your life expecatnacy (hello., nature links anyone:0 make you grow stronger (hello, nature links anyone?) incrases your stature (hello nature links anyone) but most of all boosts your intellect and mental capacity.. .. it enhances life. Not to mention that all life creation is ordered arcane, whic means on a fundmanetal level, nature is result of arcane ordering in the Warcraft universe.

As you say the evidence is in the balnace druid class that balnaces aracane and nature as shown in the very aspect of its spells, if that were the only link we could have argued that arcane and nature oppose each other by providing alternative explanations, but it isn't the only link. The whole story of the ngiht elves is a story of arcane and nature duality brought to their highest degrees in this race.. they are a spectrum from arcane to nature - even their preisthood is full of arcane energy spells, and based aroudn Monnwells and the WEll of Eternity from pre-sundering times thorughout the zenith of the arcane civilziation, the sundering and the long vigil era - there you have the Well of Eternity, the invention of Moonwells using it, the boosting of nature, .. WotA tirlogy even describes the great night elven cities like Suramar you play in and Zin'Azshari in Warbringers Azshara are built combining Arcane magic wielded by highborne mages and nature magic wielded by Anicent trees who have long been associated with the druids all th orughout the arcane empire days , probably originating from when Cenarius first meets with them, and you see these in Dire Maul, and while you don't see any in Suramar present day, the nature use and love is evidennt in other ways, the most prominent being the Arcan'dor and the Suramar gardens and grove tenders they have there.

Not to mention the arcane sabers, if animals a d humanoids can carry around arcane power like the night elves do in places like Suramar, and Zin'Azshari, it's not such a large leap to envisiono nightborne druids.. I think the people that struggle are struggling with the culture clash of a rural druid and an urban elf. but it's like saying, Humans and elves can't be warlocks because they are based in dugenosnand caves, and humans and elves come from cities therefore there is a cultural clash, i just can't see any of them being warlocks.

[Shakana]

Because its much easier to learn to be a monk. Think about it...

Which is harder to perform? To change your entire being and cellular structure in order to transform into a huge beast that is capable of intelligent thought while commanding the forces of the sun and the moon?

Or to punch things?

I cry laughing when i see a undead monk. Roflll

*Chi torpedo* Bones jump everywhere.

[Dellis0991]

Nightbornes have a emote of silly:
Night elves? More like country elves! They live in trees, sleep in dens... sometimes even grow antlers. They're not cut out for life in a REAL city.

Although, a night elf ain't exclusively a druid, they can have other classes, and taurens? don't sleep in trees for example.
My point is that a druid, can exist in many ways as long as you have what is needed to be one, the origins and roots are there, but are with the time passing by druidism can be more malleable and expand the druid "community" and cooping with arcane user beings.

True but it will also depend on how open minded the nightborne community is to using methods of druidism that didn't involve nature being controlled or forced to being a certain way.

[Shakana]

Should be, but alas, sometimes you have to actually point it out. Thereis more too, the fact that it is druids mainly that use the waters of the well of Eternity and their arcane energies to boost the land through theMoonwell creations is also further evidence too. Also the lore tells us that the arcane boosts your life expecatnacy (hello., nature links anyone:0 make you grow stronger (hello, nature links anyone?) incrases your stature (hello nature links anyone) but most of all boosts your intellect and mental capacity.. .. it enhances life. Not to mention that all life creation is ordered arcane, whic means on a fundmanetal level, nature is result of arcane ordering in the Warcraft universe.

As you say the evidence is in the balnace druid class that balnaces aracane and nature as shown in the very aspect of its spells, if that were the only link we could have argued that arcane and nature oppose each other by providing alternative explanations, but it isn't the only link. The whole story of the ngiht elves is a story of arcane and nature duality brought to their highest degrees in this race.. they are a spectrum from arcane to nature - even their preisthood is full of arcane energy spells, and based aroudn Monnwells and the WEll of Eternity from pre-sundering times thorughout the zenith of the arcane civilziation, the sundering and the long vigil era - there you have the Well of Eternity, the invention of Moonwells using it, the boosting of nature, .. WotA tirlogy even describes the great night elven cities like Suramar you play in and Zin'Azshari in Warbringers Azshara are built combining Arcane magic wielded by highborne mages and nature magic wielded by Anicent trees who have long been associated with the druids all th orughout the arcane empire days , probably originating from when Cenarius first meets with them, and you see these in Dire Maul, and while you don't see any in Suramar present day, the nature use and love is evidennt in other ways, the most prominent being the Arcan'dor and the Suramar gardens and grove tenders they have there.

Not to mention the arcane sabers, if animals a d humanoids can carry around arcane power like the night elves do in places like Suramar, and Zin'Azshari, it's not such a large leap to envisiono nightborne druids.. I think the people that struggle are struggling with the culture clash of a rural druid and an urban elf. but it's like saying, Humans and elves can't be warlocks because they are based in dugenosnand caves, and humans and elves come from cities therefore there is a cultural clash, i just can't see any of them being warlocks.

I find original what the nightbornes are. I like having a diversity of elves in the game. But i keep asking myself "what if?", what if they could be druids. You're not the first person asking yourself that question.
Also i think with the dks arrival to all races makes me question blizzard's logic for some things. They give legit sense to some and legit nonsense to others. It's like every expansion or every year they change the devs. And i still don't know who is the mastermind behind the stuff that makes sense, and seems there's someone that is just replacing the mastermind and takes over for a year or 2. Literally feels like that sometimes.

Btw, not judging but are you dyslexic? Sometimes i don't know if it's you typing too fast or if you're indeed dyslexic, sorry if i break your personal issues into public but i just couldn't contain myself and had to ask.

[Ielenia]

They did have the botanist from the Nighthold raid though

Yes. But it was one guy. We also had one night elf warlock. We also have one blood elf druid. One single example is, at best, the exception.

[Shakana]

True but it will also depend on how open minded the nightborne community is to using methods of druidism that didn't involve nature being controlled or forced to being a certain way.

Obviously nightborne are so in bad terms with night elves, that i feel like they don't even want to think about learning the night elves druids way and let themselves learn with them, so for that, i recognize Thalyssra would talk to Baine and let her people learn with them instead.

[Halyon]

Alchemy shenanigans is what you see with the goblins and forsaken, this is much more than that, the bloodelf dude turns into a tree, and there is a fully fledged ancient ant theend of the Botanica instance.

My point is that the elven races do have a lot of nature love in them, and fans are kinda crossing wires by thinking if you're great at arcane you hate nature or can't use it or vice versa when the evidence is overwhelming and the best you can say, is that arcane elven societies just don't wield nature as passionately as the druidic centred Darnassians.. but ot think they don't love nature or have no aptitude or for some un-explained reason can't wield it is demonstrably incorrect with examples such as Suramar, the Botanica, the Nighthold, EVersong Woods zone and the quests that show this. The nightborne even have part of their main sotry line working with a druid, and at the end you see val'sharah refugees start healing nature in uramar and joining the Nightfallen Rebellion. To think that somehow they wouldn't have access to druidsm or be unable to wield it or that Monk training would some how be more prevalent doesn't add up.

It's just probably one of those things that blizzard either are going to come back to later with an expanded storyline that has been shelved or put on hold, or they forgot because it wasn't important, you never know with them.

Alchemy can do a lot of things. It's like science, but with magic as well, and many combinations thereof. The most famous one is trying to turn a base metal into gold. Basically; transmutation. Which is part of what druidism does in practice. What differs is how they got capable of doing it, example, turning a person into a treant.

Druidism gains that power from being in tune and communing with nature itself, a deeply spiritual/divine sort of magic. Arcane magic can transmute/transform fleshy things into other fleshy things as well, like mages using polymorph...

Alchemy, likewise, can mimic these things, just requires the right ingredients, like the sandstone drake. It's all in the game.

I mean, we have goblin shamans... Tell me how that makes sense any more than someone being a very accomplished transmuter via alchemy, using potions and other strange concoctions.

[Dellis0991]

Obviously nightborne are so in bad terms with night elves, that i feel like they don't even want to think about learning the night elves druids way and let themselves learn with them, so for that, i recognize Thalyssra would talk to Baine and let her people learn with them instead.

I could see that happening. I see funny stuff like this happening too.

Tauren druid: * Summon a treant grow* and that is how you summon a treant.
Nightborne: Can I make it purple? Can I make it look crystalline?
Tauren druid: I don't think yo-
Nightborne: *summons a purple crystalline treant* hmmm I could probably do better
Tauren druid: ........well it is still technically a treant so I guess you pass.

[keelr]

Lore pov: Being a monk is a way of life you choose while being a druid is smth you are born with. Everybody can be monk under the guidance of a master but tbh druid its not just about learning to be a druid.

[Shakana]

I could see that happening. I see funny stuff like this happening too.

Tauren druid: * Summon a treant grow* and that is how you summon a treant.
Nightborne: Can I make it purple? Can I make it look crystalline?
Tauren druid: I don't think yo-
Nightborne: *summons a purple crystalline treant* hmmm I could probably do better
Tauren druid: ........well it is still technically a treant so I guess you pass.

LMAO that gave me the laughs! Oh shiet thanks ahaha

Tauren druid: ok now... try shapeshift into a bear
Nightborne: Ugh... the stench of a bear...
Bwonsamdi: Yo don't steal my lines.