Please tell me how Nightborne being monks before druids makes sense?

[cparle87]

They shovel Monk into anything

Hell, there are Zandalari using Pandaren martial arts. That's fucked up

You don't think the Zandalari would go out of their way to learn and incorporate a fighting style that defeated a powerful ally of theirs in the past?

[lollerlaban]

its easy, they dont need new art assets to make them a monk, they do for druid

They don't, rigs for animations are the same cross race now

[Halyon]

LMAO that gave me the laughs! Oh shiet thanks ahaha

Tauren druid: ok now... try shapeshift into a bear
Nightborne: Ugh... the stench of a bear...
Bwomsamdi: Yo don't steal my lines.

Nvm the Hulk/Gorillabear from mage tower.

Also kul tiran druids. Wtf are they smoking to get those things...

(I know the answer's basically witchcraft, aka 'more evil aligned druidism')

[Niroshi]

Lore pov: Being a monk is a way of life you choose while being a druid is smth you are born with. Everybody can be monk under the guidance of a master but tbh druid its not just about learning to be a druid.

Druidism is a teachable skill. Malfurion was taught Druidism back when Night Elves were an Arcane race.

[Shakana]

Nvm the Hulk/Gorillabear from mage tower.

Also kul tiran druids. Wtf are they smoking to get those things...

They smoked drustvar herbs and shapeshift xD

[ravenmoon]

Alchemy can do a lot of things. It's like science, but with magic as well, and many combinations thereof. The most famous one is trying to turn a base metal into gold. Basically; transmutation. Which is part of what druidism does in practice. What differs is how they got capable of doing it, example, turning a person into a treant.

Druidism gains that power from being in tune and communing with nature itself, a deeply spiritual/divine sort of magic. Arcane magic can transmute/transform fleshy things into other fleshy things as well, like mages using polymorph...

Alchemy, likewise, can mimic these things, just requires the right ingredients, like the sandstone drake. It's all in the game.

There wouldnt be an Ancient at the end of that instance if this was purely am alchemy thing, not to mention the treants that are part of Eversong woods and the Thalassian elf story and the love fir nature that the lire intrinsically puts in all elves, or do you feel only the arcane aptitude of the nightnelves passed on to the high elves, but the nature love somehow got lost aling the way. Notice how they choose a very heavily forested land as their new home, remarking how it reminds them of Kalimdor.

While you could be right, I think they were showing something more than alchemy, I dont think it was druidsm, but it is related because it is nature magically involved, just hot the druid version we are use to, but the same magic stream which would make it very easy for these guys to transition I to full druidsm.

When you have Ancient tree, an elf shifting into tree form, love of plants and gardens and a history of it in your race and treants, I do not think it is illogical to make the connection with druidsm first as this is where these themes are lost developed in, not alchemy.

Furthermore, there is no reason to believe this isnt an less developed form of said druidsm nor reason to believe only the night elven Kaldorei would have I terest in advancing nature studies.

Furthermore there is good reason to believe nightborne would want to learn from Farodin a hero to them and other kaldorei who have clearly advance much further than they in this field, and should they learn, I can easily see Blood elves willing to learn from them, and void elves possibly learning from Kaldorei whose highborne relationship s would have vastly improved since the she 'dralar joined fscilitstimg opportunity cities to I interact under the alliance banner

[Halyon]

They smoked drustvar herbs and shapeshift xD

Those shrooms came from the sketchy graveyard then lol. xD I really liked Drustvar from a lore perspective. Witchcraft is actually pretty natural as well, it's just not as benign as the officially-labeled-druidism druidism. Like how Dark Shamans are the opposite side of the coin to shamans.

[ravenmoon]

LMAO that gave me the laughs! Oh shiet thanks ahaha

Tauren druid: ok now... try shapeshift into a bear
Nightborne: Ugh... the stench of a bear...
Bwonsamdi: Yo don't steal my lines.

Haha, that made me laugh.

However let's not forget nightborne are hunters too, there is defintiely animal love there, we follow a nightborne huntress for a few WQs and quests in Suramar and Broken Shore remember.

I can imagine a blood elf or shen'dralar highborne mage saying the same thing, but not a Farstrider or highborne hunter

[Feanoro]

Well, druidsm when it was introduced was an elven thing through and through. It's become more a troll/tauren thing over time, especially with the highmoutnain and zandalari trolls also having druids, now all of a sudden, it doesn't even feel elven because of this.

Blizzard taking things away from the original group/entity and giving it to another? Unprecedented!

[Psykho]

Yes. But it was one guy. We also had one night elf warlock. We also have one blood elf druid. One single example is, at best, the exception.

Correction Tel'arn was NOT the only Nightborne Botanist, merely the only named one, there are also 2 mobs both called Terrace Grove-tender one from the raid and one from the Nightborne starting area, who can be seen casting spells on plants

[Halyon]

There wouldnt be an Ancient at the end of that instance if this was purely am alchemy thing, not to mention the treants that are part of Eversong woods and the Thalassian elf story and the love fir nature that the lire intrinsically puts in all elves, or do you feel only the arcane aptitude of the nightnelves passed on to the high elves, but the nature love somehow got lost aling the way. Notice how they choose a very heavily forested land as their new home, remarking how it reminds them of Kalimdor.

While you could be right, I think they were showing something more than alchemy, I dont think it was druidsm, but it is related because it is nature magically involved, just hot the druid version we are use to, but the same magic stream which would make it very easy for these guys to transition I to full druidsm.

When you have Ancient tree, an elf shifting into tree form, love of plants and gardens and a history of it in your race and treants, I do not think it is illogical to make the connection with druidsm first as this is where these themes are lost developed in, not alchemy.

Furthermore, there is no reason to believe this isnt an less developed form of said druidsm nor reason to believe only the night elven Kaldorei would have I terest in advancing nature studies.

Furthermore there is good reason to believe nightborne would want to learn from Farodin a hero to them and other kaldorei who have clearly advance much further than they in this field, and should they learn, I can easily see Blood elves willing to learn from them, and void elves possibly learning from Kaldorei whose highborne relationship s would have vastly improved since the she 'dralar joined fscilitstimg opportunity cities to I interact under the alliance banner

Treants could be created, or they...you know, stole one to experiment on? It's not like treants are that rare.

Just because a race likes more natural surroundings, don't mean they'll want to become it. The blood elves, as one example, are very attached to their rangers, who're generally very tied to and concerned about nature, but they're not shapeshifters. They instead ally with animals (usually), use naturally occurring things to help them, as well as some arcane and natural magic.

Nature is beautiful to many races. Also the nightborne, but a rather specific style, so they alter it to suit their needs, they keep it very manicured when it's within their city borders. They also have a zoo. Doesn't mean they want to, or see a need for, being druids, because they can do other things to accomplish their goals.

The thing is though, alchemy is a VERY broad 'science'. With the right materials you could almost do anything under the sun, and then some. More permament transformation via alchemy is already in the game, like I mentioned with the sandstone drake. And for it to be a class with the proper lore behind it, that's technically all it needs. Unless Blizz goes killjoy and states these instances were truly unique, or basically 1 in a trillion chance of happening 'correctly'.

So while there are a few unique people who are basically druids in all but name, doesn't mean they actually are druids, or should be, as a result can be achieved in different ways. My personal alternate go-to for the non-tree-hippies would be alchemy, failing that, plain old arcane magic. There's no need to complicate it the matters when there are answers already established and readily usable.

[Volardelis]

Blizzard seems to bring only dual druid combinations Tauren/Nightelf, Druid/Worgen, Zandalari/Kul'Tiran so there was no way they would do Voidelf/Lightforged Druids :P

They didn't bring in a dual partner for Highmountain Tauren though.

[mickybrighteyes]

Ye ok but let's say, nightbornes are basically the highborne (high elves) that changed due to nightwells and all, still, druids need contact with nature right, and kutlirans didn't train with cenarius either, or zandalari for that case.

My point is using the fact that druidism is a night elf thing and that nightborne are the old highborne is a poor argument since the night elves didn't really take up more wide spread teaching of druidism until post sundering. Malfurion being among the first to spread it among them and not doing so until events of the war of teh ancients transpired.

Kultiran druidism origins are different from night elves or taurens and even gilneans and if so, i don't see why not using a more sophisticated druidism without living in the trees but still having a connection with nature and balance in a luxury way.

That's all fine and dandy. But the nightborne are largely an example of sequestered arcanists practicing the arcane and how arcane magic works and that appears to be largely present at all levels of society that we see once we show up... main exceptions being demonic overlords and subjugation via fel

A simple thing that made me want druids was a boss in Nighthold "Botanist" and they are pretty related to nature, sun, moon, and nature.

A singular npc is not a very good indicator for the general public.

So in here you can see suramar culture can take you to the botanist - nightborne druid. And botanist uses arcane to shapes his plants and so does balance druids.

As I am sure I've stated many times on these forums... I believe the mechanical schools we see in game are not indicative of the functional schools of lore and the various devs and writers have done a very poor job mixing them. I have always believed druids were originally not intended to be using "arcane" in the same vein as what "Arcane Blast" and "Arcane Explosion" are but rather that making druids only use one school in the original launch and how interrupts worked would have been beyond retarded. I'd also argue the singular examples of "botanist" casters among the blood elves and nightborne (yes there is a singular named botanist among the bosses of... well no surprise "The Botanica" as well as numerous unnamed npc's among Kael's forces) are arcanists who dedicated to experiments on plants. The plant basis doesn't make them druids because they turned to plant bending any more than a rogue taking to swords makes them a warrior.

I would like for the horde to have elven druids. We have taurens and trolls, but never a elf in history on horde, not even blood elves, they are always so "corrupted" elves that can't never have the approval of being a druid.

Ah it seems you missed the Botanica... those botanists were more 'druid' than the parasite spewing thing in the nighthold.

[Ezyah]

how Nightborne being monks before druids makes sense?

my job here is done

[Shakana]

There wouldnt be an Ancient at the end of that instance if this was purely am alchemy thing, not to mention the treants that are part of Eversong woods and the Thalassian elf story and the love fir nature that the lire intrinsically puts in all elves, or do you feel only the arcane aptitude of the nightnelves passed on to the high elves, but the nature love somehow got lost aling the way. Notice how they choose a very heavily forested land as their new home, remarking how it reminds them of Kalimdor.

While you could be right, I think they were showing something more than alchemy, I dont think it was druidsm, but it is related because it is nature magically involved, just hot the druid version we are use to, but the same magic stream which would make it very easy for these guys to transition I to full druidsm.

When you have Ancient tree, an elf shifting into tree form, love of plants and gardens and a history of it in your race and treants, I do not think it is illogical to make the connection with druidsm first as this is where these themes are lost developed in, not alchemy.

Furthermore, there is no reason to believe this isnt an less developed form of said druidsm nor reason to believe only the night elven Kaldorei would have I terest in advancing nature studies.

Furthermore there is good reason to believe nightborne would want to learn from Farodin a hero to them and other kaldorei who have clearly advance much further than they in this field, and should they learn, I can easily see Blood elves willing to learn from them, and void elves possibly learning from Kaldorei whose highborne relationship s would have vastly improved since the she 'dralar joined fscilitstimg opportunity cities to I interact under the alliance banner

It's fun, worgen has roots on druidism just like paganism in Britain.
Then Nightborne just turned against night elves and got addicted to mana, just like the blood elves did and funny how they keep this as their best argument for every counter strike about druidism. They obviously had to give to us another mana junkies to horde and not let me fancy having a elf druid on horde.
They have 3 druids in alliance, 1 of them they took it out of their butt. But they have different races, while we have like basically 2 taurens, 2 trolls that can be druids and non-elf druid. I wanted it, but i guess i will never have one.

[Rhozul]

From a lore perspective, it's possible that being walled up in a city for 10,000 years would result in a civilization losing touch with their nature-based heritage. After all, the nightborne basically evolved from the highborne; i.e. the richest most magic-centric of the night elves. The same caste that the night elves kicked out of their society until Cataclysm, when they were welcomed back (which is when night elves got mage as an available class).

I'm pretty down with the nightborne getting druids, personally. I think that it would be a good idea for Blizzard to add questlines that allow players to unlock new race / class combinations that wouldn't otherwise be core. It would be a good way to progress the game and to create a reward for players doing meaningful content.

[Syegfryed]

I couldn't agree more with you but i can agree with my selfish self that druids can exist too on nightborne.

for that to happen then druids should exist also in every race, "nightbornes "deserving" druids would only make sense if other races also get the class

until they do not remove the class barrier i will be totally against of that

However your race doesn't have to have a druidic based lifestyle to be able to become druids last I checked.

they rly have to, not the "lifestyle of night elves" but their own druidic lyfestyles

Nature love, nature aptitude, and druidic teachers would be the key requirements, and judging from the Nightborne lore we saw, they have all 3.

they don't seem to be "nature love" neither have "nature padtitute", just the gardener it seems, and what druidic teacher? night elves? why they would even teach the enemy?


in other hand taurens and trolls of the horde could teach horde races like orcs, night elves could teach races like draeneis,t wo races who make way more sense tob e druid than some Arcane base elves with an arcane based society with little to nothing based on nature magic

And yes Botanists aren't really druids, but are sure much further along the way than o thers, with a fully trained druid and incentive for nature (such as the aracn'dor, not to mention 10k years only in a city), I think there is sufficient motivation amongst that race.

its one gardener who is dead, there is no suficient motivation, there is no motivation at all, they are arcane elves, their entire society is based around arcane magic, and arcane things, they are exactly like blood elves and they would care little about nature magic and druid lifestyle

What i don't get is why Tauren highmountain who have no interaction with druids or evidence of drudism in all their quest zones are automatically able to be druids..

it didn't have nothing on taurens druids before in wc3 either, there is nothing implying highmountain would not be druids when their ancesstors were and they even have the bless of Cenarius, just because there is no much relevance on then, because the focus was another, don't mean they didn't exist

]CLearly it asn't part of the highmountain tauren by decision of the creative team, but was part of the nightboren, yet highmountain got it, but nightborne didn't as a class option.

you are trying to tell me, that the race of taurens, who already had druids before they even separate fro the main race, who literally had the bless of cenarius, who do live in harmony with the nature in their ways, showed to dabble with nature magic and the animal spirits one way or another, was not part of the highmountain tribe ~~just because they didn't actively show that in the zones~~ but id does to nigthborne when they clearly have ZERO shit with druidism just an guy who use ARCANE magic in plants? thats seems a lot of bias to me

[ravenmoon]

Blizzard taking things away from the original group/entity and giving it to another? Unprecedented!

Hahaha, true, although I suspect this si the inevitable result of such a high staff turn over, those who actually were there at the start understoodt he original vision, are no longer there.

NEw people come in, and largely understand wow only from the point they enter. I guess if you started with wow at cataclysm, you'd feel druidsm was more a a trol/tauren thing, as a game developer you wouldn't thin kof the lore, or the histroy, or the roots etc, you would't know and likely would never have read, WotA, stormrage, wokfheart etc, you would likely see night elves as just wow's version of wood elves, Tauren and trolls being more animal looking as fitting the druid theme becuase it turns to animals, and not think twice about it, besides you already have main race taurens and torrolls able too, ah, it fits, its in the lore, and you'll make it happen.

You will then invite the lore/creative team, to make sure the lore for your choices is right. They probbalby have no say in the selection process of who gets what, otherwiseht they'd probably have suggested nightborne got the druids instead of highmountain.

[mickybrighteyes]

Then Nightborne just turned against night elves and got addicted to mana, just like the blood elves did and funny how they keep this as their best argument for every counter strike about druidism.

The nightborne... like most other elves were already attached to an arcane source before the sundering. The loss of that source or being cut off from it is what seemed to be what pushed them to seeking other sources of mana. EVERY elven society has adopted something to fill this void and it has been part of what causes their various splits or deviations in 'evolution'. There's only one exception to this rule in the form of the Shendralar who somehow took of demonic energy starting sometime after the sundering (something in the area of 15k-12k years before year 0) and continuing on until roughly year 25~.

They (Nightborne) didn't turn on night elves and get addicted. They were addicted to their substitute "Well of Eternity" option created while stuck in their barrier before they even knew of the existence of the night elves of the broken isles of the world beyond.


Jesus... I get you want elven druids in the horde but god damn pay attention to the lore.

[Ielenia]

Correction Tel'arn was NOT the only Nightborne Botanist, merely the only named one, there are also 2 mobs both called Terrace Grove-tender one from the raid and one from the Nightborne starting area, who can be seen casting spells on plants

He was the only one in the sense he "looks and acts like a druid" all the others can be chalked up at being just mage herbalists.