Plz...someone tell me why a female mary sue cant exist?
Im really curious...
There are SO MANY MALE "mary sues" in the media...an infinite amount...
So...why cant sylvanas be a mary sue?
Plz...someone tell me why a female mary sue cant exist?
Im really curious...
There are SO MANY MALE "mary sues" in the media...an infinite amount...
So...why cant sylvanas be a mary sue?
Ya'know, before someone linked it at the beginning of this thread, I had no idea that the term was supposed to pertain *by definition* to female characters... because people on the internet sure don't use it exclusively for females.
I saw so many people call Thrall a Mary Sue during Cata it made my head hurt.
This is a really stupid justification. There's just as many Gary Stus there are Mary Sues. It's just that you're called a sexist asshole for pointing out the Mary Sues. Sylvanas, Jaina Proudmoore, and Tyrande are ALL Mary Sue characters. Just because there's a bunch of Gary Stus doesn't justify the large collections of Mary Sues in popular stories.
Re-posting point #1, with the important part put in bold:
She failed capturing the Val'kyr, but then we find out a couple expansions later she "immediately found a better solution" with the deal with the Jailer.
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In other words: she failed... but her failure was inconsequential because she found another solution soon after. And as for 'serving others', we know she's working alongside the Jailer, not under him.
"Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
"You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
"They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...
Immediately found a new and better solution?
It literally takes from v7.0 to v9.0 in game, before that solution presents itself. Each expansion usually takes 1 year in-game (2 years real time)... Can you please explain the word IMMEDIATELY for me, because TWO YEARS doesn't not seem very immediate to me.
Last edited by FuxieDK; 2020-01-01 at 08:21 PM.
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How is Tyrande a Mary Sue?
She had to "get empowered" in a supposedly life-risking ritual and team up with Malfurion to take out one Val'kyr, then Nathanos leaves having gotten pretty much what he wanted and needed, gloating at Tyrande all the while.
Her race are only ever relevant to be glorified target dummies for the Horde. She's portrayed as being so unreasonable that she pushed the Nightborne to the Horde single-handedly and people constantly make fun of her being distressed over Malfurion in Val'sharah. Oh, and she, a 10.000+ year old fighter was taught a lesson in patience by a human King not even a fraction of her lifespan.
She's the chosen of Ysera, she survived a ritual that has killed everyone else that has attempted it, she has never suffered a defeated in battle, and she literally has NO flaws. So...yeah. Definitely a Mary Sue. Just because the night elves aren't written as being powerful doesn't change the fact that Tyrande HERSELF is a Mary Sue.
"Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
"You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
"They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...
Because Mary Sue's are freaking annoying, no matter their gender. We already have a big male Sue in WoW in the form of Manduin, but he isn't being shoved down our throats as hard as the morally grey lady. Besides, the thread is about Sylvie. If you want to complain about incels, the offtopic forum is =====> that way.
@Shadoowpunk other franchises having plenty of male Sue's is completely irrelevant to the subject at hand.
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Tyrande definitely smells of Mary Sue, but the narrative doesn't bend over (not yet, at least) to give her the spotlight.
Sylvanas is not a Mary Sue. But she's a victim of bad writing nonetheless. Certain examples that make it appearent are these:
1) She failed to stop Arthas. If she was a mary sue, she would've kicked Arthas' ass back to Northrend and saved Quel'thalas.
2) She was blind to Varimathras/Putress' schemes until it was too late.
3) She was all around a terrible Warchief in comparison to Orgrim or Thrall, and led them to the jaws of death and destruction for the third time in the faction's history.
4) She blew up her own carefully created plans out of spite/idiocy, for example, the Mak'gora and Teldrassil.
If she was a legit mary sue, she would've been successful at everything and even her enemies would've liked her. Instead she fails. Everytime.
Admittedly, I am still salty over Saurfang/Bolvar fight, but oh well.
Last edited by Dark Succ; 2020-01-01 at 09:37 PM.
"You stand at a dangerous crossroads. You can either stay here and be slaughtered by human hands... Or choose a darker path... To freedom."
A massive portion of Val'sharah was dedicated to Tyrande. Everything about Darkshore is about Tyrande. She even outright refuses the orders of the King, which is treason in a monarchy, and nothing bad happens to her as a result. She's totally gotten the spotlight. She just hasn't gotten it as much as others. And she's getting her own big story in Shadowlands.
Last edited by Dark Succ; 2020-01-01 at 09:51 PM.
"You stand at a dangerous crossroads. You can either stay here and be slaughtered by human hands... Or choose a darker path... To freedom."
"Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
"You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
"They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...
The *ORIGINAL* Mary Sue, was a parody of badly written (usually) female self-insert characters in Star Trek fanfiction. There is nothing in the concept itself that says a Mary Sue has to be male or female. In early Star Trek fanfiction, they were *usually* female, but that's just in Star Trek. The concept of a Mary Sue works just as well for male characters as female characters.
Not really. I wouldn't even give her a high percentile. From the well known key points that form a mary sue she lacks some of the most notable, like being an author self-insert or being loved by everyone, even her enemies. For this to be true Anduin would need to be salavating at her sight like the dipshit that writes her character, which already brings us to what she really is, the waifu of some sorry fuck that fell up in Blizzard's internal hierarchy until he was allowed to shape expansion narratives around his dream girl.
She is just an OP waifu and we are stuck playing her character arc as spectators, the goal is clear as well, ascension to some form of divinity. She will be WoW's Kerrigan.
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The issue with your points is that while being poorly written is the main cause of her terrible character at the moment, this wouldn't neccessarily negate being a mary sue (again she isn't one imho). For one the characters in WoW don't really belong to anyone anymore (with a few exceptions which are purely based on courtesy from one author to another, like Thrall), which means if the writing team changes, the character can become someone elses self-insert for example. Jaina has pretty much become the self-insert of Golden, doesn't apply to Sylvanas, but it's not really an argument against a character being a mary sue. So failings in the distant past don't mean much today.
The oher points you mentioned have been kinda retconned by now. There are hints that she might have known of varimathras/putress all along, same with her "tactical failures", which were just sacrifices to the Maw and various other things. The only reason she keeps failing is pretty much that Blizzard, no matter much of an idiot the lead narrative designer is, can't have the players keep losing. Comporate money >> somone's bodypillow.
Last edited by Cosmic Janitor; 2020-01-02 at 02:48 AM.
You are welcome, Metzen. I hope you won't fuck up my underground expansion idea.