BWL/AQ/Naxx will be demolished with ease.

[BrillGates]

It'll be puggable first day for all of the raids. Raid comes out. First day. PUGs will clear it. More groups will clear it first day than people will clear a normal raid in 8.3.

Haha Ok.

[Nitros14]

Gearing 4 tanks for Horsemen will no longer be an issue.

I think the minimum you can do Four Horsemen with is 6 tanks, and even then if all of them don't have 4 piece tier 3 and the ZG trinket taunt resists would be miserable.

People use the 8 tank strategy so they don't all need the tier 3.

[Jurwi]

This isn't criticism of the game, but a wake-up call to those who think Classic was just "hard" and that no amount of player experience will change that: [B]you are completely wrong.

I don't think anyone thinks that. Vanilla was hard only because majority of the players were totally new to the genre, and had no idea wtf they were doing. It's a whole different world today.

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It'll be puggable first day for all of the raids. Raid comes out. First day. PUGs will clear it. More groups will clear it first day than people will clear a normal raid in 8.3.

Some PUGs will surely clear it, yea. Most won't. And yea, of course 8.3 raid is harder. Mechanics are light years ahead of Vanilla.

[arkanon]

People are still baiting this same old subject and the same old bait threads keep getting though the net?

What a surprise.

Same ppl bumping the threads too.

[Nitros14]

I don't think anyone thinks that. Vanilla was hard only because majority of the players were totally new to the genre, and had no idea wtf they were doing. It's a whole different world today.

Some PUGs will surely clear it, yea. Most won't. And yea, of course 8.3 raid is harder. Mechanics are light years ahead of Vanilla.

Naxxramas is actually fairly tuned though. It's mostly not complicated but normal 8.3 raids have non-existent dps/healing checks compared to Naxxramas 60. You can go into normal BFA raids and ignore half the mechanics and still kill it. All the mechanics in Naxxramas actually kill you because they do a lot of damage.

The top guilds abusing mass world buff stacking and flasking the whole raid will crush it sure but good luck getting a pug to do that.

[vitor210]

This is bait

TIL "bait" means something obvious...

[Monster Hunter]

Naxxramas is actually fairly tuned though. It's mostly not complicated but normal 8.3 raids have non-existent dps/healing checks compared to Naxxramas 60. You can go into normal BFA raids and ignore half the mechanics and still kill it. All the mechanics in Naxxramas actually kill you because they do a lot of damage.

The top guilds abusing mass world buff stacking and flasking the whole raid will crush it sure but good luck getting a pug to do that.

Yea. Normal isn't ment to be difficult.

There's 4 difficulty setting for raids in wow now.

Lolfr, free loot, actual normal, and omfg. Also known as lfr, normal, heroic and mythic.

Nax is just Nax. Its sits some where between norm and heroic, as in you need to move, but not alot and shits still mostly patchwerk, in one case litteraly.

[Jurwi]

Naxxramas is actually fairly tuned though. It's mostly not complicated but normal 8.3 raids have non-existent dps/healing checks compared to Naxxramas 60. You can go into normal BFA raids and ignore half the mechanics and still kill it. All the mechanics in Naxxramas actually kill you because they do a lot of damage.

The top guilds abusing mass world buff stacking and flasking the whole raid will crush it sure but good luck getting a pug to do that.

Those checks don't mean shit anymore because everybody knows how to effectively optimize their gears and talents. You're really overestimating the difficulty.

[Nitros14]

Those checks don't mean shit anymore because everybody knows how to effectively optimize their gears and talents. You're really overestimating the difficulty.

Most of the less dedicated people aren't going to stack consumables the way the most dedicated people do though. That's what really makes the checks meaningless.

Consumables and world buffs are so powerful in classic in a way they really aren't at all in retail.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

"My version of the game is better than your version of the game." -this thread.

[Caperfin]

I doubt the problem is a lack of information, but a lack of willingness to process it.

If you tell your entire raid to use consumables (and they actually do it) pretty much any boss in MC rolls over automatically, because the dps increase allows you to bypass almost any mechanic.
If you however, have people that aren't doing any research on their character and just equip whatever they want, do not use any (Fire resistance) Potions, Tanks just not giving a shit about taunting, i can see that rag can turn into a struggle.

Let's not forget, people also love to showcase "how few" people actually clear heroic on retail, would love to see some stats on how many people have reached 60 and killed Rag.

Completely agree. It's still demoralising to possibly think that people have a harder time in Classic than in Retail, considering the very basic and low standard required. But I guess you singularly narrow your demographic since most people who value the hardcore/challenging value of raids play retail.

[kamuimac]

This is bait

how can truth be bait ?

[Machismo]

Most dungeons will be downed with ease by the top guilds. Most of the semi-decent guilds will have those on farm within a few weeks. The one exception will be Naxx, mainly because a few fights have strong wipe mechanics that we really hadn't seen before. Casual guilds are still going to suffer.

[Lolites]

I don't know why retail people want to make classic seem like it's only about raiding, maybe because there is nothing else on retail

quite the opposite, on max lvl whats there to do on classic but raids?
i know, classic is not about rushing to cap, but the content on cap is really pvp and once you got dungeon gear raids and thats it...
you might have issue with quality of content on lvl cap on retail, but in quantity theres far more than on classic...

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"My version of the game is better than your version of the game." -this thread.

you mean this forum

[justandulas]

The boss fights may be harder in mythic retail, but the gearing, value of gear, and social structures are far stronger and more rpg in classic

I’ll never have to worry about my raid gear being reset with a new season.

I’d also argue it’s harder to get the top end raid gear in classic than vanilla. Not only is 40 man harder to organize than 20 mythic, but you have to be top of the pecking order for the legendary’s.

[Nitros14]

Completely agree. It's still demoralising to possibly think that people have a harder time in Classic than in Retail, considering the very basic and low standard required. But I guess you singularly narrow your demographic since most people who value the hardcore/challenging value of raids play retail.

I think the only people left raiding retail are the ones that actually like Mythic+. I value hardcore/challenging content and got cutting edge in 9 of the last 10 tiers but I quit retail because the mobile game style unending grindy game design got exhausting.

I know the retail raiding population has cratered. There were 50,000 guilds raiding at the end of Pandaria. 30,000 at the end of Warlords and 25,000 at the end of Legion. It's down to 14,000 now on wowprogress.

[Kralljin]

Completely agree. It's still demoralising to possibly think that people have a harder time in Classic than in Retail, considering the very basic and low standard required. But I guess you singularly narrow your demographic since most people who value the hardcore/challenging value of raids play retail.

I've explained this in another post, the issue in comparison to Retail is the multitude of difficulties.

Vanilla is a joke in terms of difficulty, but a hard flooring still exists.
Take Onyxia, if you just entirely ignore the Bosses position, there's a chance that you get roasted by the Breath, which will kill you unless you are extremely overgeared with Stamina.

Now take LFR, you can't die on this difficulty unless the healers start to stop healing you, nothing kills you, even the most blatantly obvious mechanics.

Vanilla is like going up some stairs, if you don't like lifting your feet, you're not going to get up there.
Is lifting your feet difficult? Obviously not.

However on Retail, Blizzard installed even escalator for those that refuse to lift their feet.
The difference being that Retail in terms of difficulty now stretches between Escalator to actual rockclimbing.

That's just the thing about difficulty, if you take people that are used to rockclimbing and present them a set of stairs as "challenge", they laugh at it, if you now take a group of people who don't want to lift their feet, that might be a different story.

[Sondrelk]

The later vanilla raids being a complete joke is less of a problem than the social impact the AQ gate event being over will have.

Once that is over and especially once Naxxramas is on farm we will truly get a feel for who are dedicated to Classic.
Will be fun.

[Snackpack]

Very few, if any, said that RAIDING in Classic would be hard, contrary to the OP. Everyone knew the raids were a joke compared to retail.

Other factors are a different story for their reasoning why Vanilla was "harder".

[Sunderella]

so, does anyone care how fast a boss goes down?