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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowsgrace View Post
    Roseanne - First episode date: October 18, 1988.

    Married With Children - First episode date: April 5, 1987.

    Married With Children drinks the Beer (Icehole specifically) and tosses back the Empty. *Burp*

    Edit: And just for Context. Seinfeld - First episode date: July 5, 1989.
    Um Sanford and Son, All in the Family, Taxi and so on all came way before Married with Children or Roseanne. What they did was nothing new or groundbreaking.

    It was just a break from 80's cheese.
    Last edited by matt4pack; 2020-01-03 at 04:45 AM.

  2. #22
    It was a show about nothing.
    I don't know if there were any predecessors to this concept, but surely that is why it changed TV, if it did at all.
    The characters were just brilliant.
    No plot needed.
    Is there a TV show on today that you could say the same for?
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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Hey There Guys its Metro View Post
    It was a show about nothing.
    I don't know if there were any predecessors to this concept, but surely that is why it changed TV, if it did at all.
    The characters were just brilliant.
    No plot needed.
    Is there a TV show on today that you could say the same for?
    I think Always Sunny, and, of course, Curb, are spiritual successors to Seinfeld in this way.

  4. #24
    Greatest TV sitcom of all time. Recently rewatched all 9 seasons all over again and still as funny as ever. Curb is pretty damn funny too, and you realise how well Jason Alexander did with capturing Larry David in his performance.

  5. #25
    It didn't change TV. It was basically Married With Children in a different setting. Married With Children broke new ground because it was the first nihilist sitcom that never tried to preach or offer a moral code. It just presented pathetic characters to laugh at. You could have the entire Bundy clan guest star on Seinfeld and they'd fit right in. Before Married With Children, sitcoms would be funny but often mix in moral lessons about life. MWC broke the rules.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    Married with Children had a similar sentimentality that Roseanne had. At the end of the day, they were family, struggling through their situation together.

    I will say, though that Al Bundy is a fat, married, beaten down version of, say, George Costanza. George could be his origin story.

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    I think you underappreciate the sentimentality of the family dynamic in that show (and Roseanne). Your family might not be friends with them, but the family's struggles are their own, and lots of families in America related to that.

    Whereas in Seinfeld, I could see any of the 4 abandoning and ghosting any of the others for no reason whatsoever. They're truly psychopaths.
    Roseanne was nothing like MWC nor Seinfeld. Roseanne still tried to deal with serious social issues and preached to the audience at times. MWC and Seinfeld did not.
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by VGAddict View Post
    For those who did, how did Seinfeld change TV?
    Single handedly got me to stop watching FTA TV and start downloading good stuff.

    Seinfeld was one of the worst TV shows in the history of TV - with the best psychologists money could buy manufacturing and selling it.

    Here sample it without the laugh track:

    Last edited by schwarzkopf; 2020-01-03 at 06:37 AM.

    Challenge Mode : Play WoW like my disability has me play:
    You will need two people, Brian MUST use the mouse for movement/looking and John MUST use the keyboard for casting, attacking, healing etc.
    Briand and John share the same goal, same intentions - but they can't talk to each other, however they can react to each other's in game activities.
    Now see how far Brian and John get in WoW.


  7. #27
    Those clips had me laughing, laugh track or no.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    Single handedly got me to stop watching FTA TV and start downloading good stuff.

    Seinfeld was one of the worst TV shows in the history of TV - with the best psychologists money could buy manufacturing and selling it.

    Here sample it without the laugh track:

    Remove the laughs from a stand up show, it will suddenly be a lot less funny and more awkward, does that mean the great standups are not funny?
    READ and be less Ignorant.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by IIamaKing View Post
    does that mean the great standups are not funny?
    Great standups are funny without the laughter ... the laughter is meant to be a sign OF it being funny, not as with Seinfeld, a sign of WHEN it is meant to be funny.

    Check out British comedy ... there are no scripted breaks for the laugh track, because the laughter happens organically.

    Challenge Mode : Play WoW like my disability has me play:
    You will need two people, Brian MUST use the mouse for movement/looking and John MUST use the keyboard for casting, attacking, healing etc.
    Briand and John share the same goal, same intentions - but they can't talk to each other, however they can react to each other's in game activities.
    Now see how far Brian and John get in WoW.


  10. #30
    Seinfeld was/is just great on a HUGE amount of levels. Why/What/How will be judged by history and the points of view.

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    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    Single handedly got me to stop watching FTA TV and start downloading good stuff.

    Seinfeld was one of the worst TV shows in the history of TV - with the best psychologists money could buy manufacturing and selling it.

    Here sample it without the laugh track:

    look, thats what taste is about:

    first, in my opinion (thats the key point here) you must be a complete idiot to really say Seinfeld was the worst TV show ever. In my opinion the exact opposite is true. And when i look at statistics of this tastes, you will have a hard time to use that argument for lets say 70-80% of ppl.

    second, i still find this scenes very funny. i watched it and it changed nearly nothing for me to not have the laughs. but maybe thats just me. but at this point, i am the living proof that kills the „for all out there“ argument here. some need the laughs, some dont.

    on the other side i find mosts of your comments in the wow sections completely idiotic. so thats maybe a me/you thing here. maybe you just dont understand Seinfeld ? or maybe i just dont understand you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jotaux View Post
    Those clips had me laughing, laugh track or no.

    eeeexactly same here.
    Last edited by Niwes; 2020-01-03 at 07:22 AM.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Niwes View Post
    Seinfeld was/is just great on a HUGE amount of levels.
    Facts : It was an unfunny show (take the laugh track out to see), with horrible characters (self admitted by the show) that literally did nothing (self admitted by the show and show creators).

    Opinions : George was miserable, Elaine was annoying, Kramer was a moron and Jerry was a vacuum. The only good characters were the supporting characters like Newman.

    Challenge Mode : Play WoW like my disability has me play:
    You will need two people, Brian MUST use the mouse for movement/looking and John MUST use the keyboard for casting, attacking, healing etc.
    Briand and John share the same goal, same intentions - but they can't talk to each other, however they can react to each other's in game activities.
    Now see how far Brian and John get in WoW.


  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    Facts : It was an unfunny show (take the laugh track out to see), with horrible characters (self admitted by the show) that literally did nothing (self admitted by the show and show creators).

    Opinions : George was miserable, Elaine was annoying, Kramer was a moron and Jerry was a vacuum. The only good characters were the supporting characters like Newman.
    obviously you didnt read my post.

    facts: your facts arent facts, its called opinion.

    facts: i believe you are an idiot. but thats just my opinion.

    oh, and some hint to your „did literally nothing“ statement: you maybe should watch the episodes when George and Jerry do their own TV show which content is „nothing“. if you are intelligent enough for that, you maybe realize that they make a joke about Seinfled itself, and that excatly the big city neurotics „nothing“ IS the gag of the show. but in the end i assume this is just too high..., eeerm, not your sense of humor.
    Last edited by Niwes; 2020-01-03 at 07:31 AM.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Zelk View Post
    In America perhaps, but British sitcoms have always been this way. See The Young Ones, Blackadder and Dad's army
    I personally love the Black Adder series, especially because it has Rowan Atkinson talking! I always found him way more entertaining when he talks versus the silent shtick of Mr. Bean. The show had some comedians/actors that even most Americans would probably recognize in some capacity, like Hugh Laurie and Brian Blessed, and was created by Atkinson and Richard Curtis (wrote films such as Love Actually amongst others). It was a little slow to pick up, but it just got better as it went. Was short, sweet, and genuinely funny, as the pacing/timing/executing of the comedy was usually spot on.

    I never really got into Seinfeld, but it certainly was popular at the time.

    When it comes to the artificial laugh tracks... well, it depends on the medium and frequency of use. When it comes to sitcoms, I think it's more of an issue when the laugh track becomes a crutch versus icing on the cake. Yes, hearing others laugh is catchy and influences us to laugh, but that doesn't necessarily mean the content was actually funny. There are shows that don't use laugh tracks that are ridiculously funny, but producing such a response from a viewer is really hard. Overuse of the laugh track tends to get really distracting, to where it's queued every couple words/seconds... and when you're watching it, you start to realize what they said isn't really funny at all.

    I'll just leave it at this: laugh track is fine when used where it enhances actually humorous/comical moments, not when used as a Jeb Bush "Please clap..." cry of desperation. If you remove the laugh track and the comedy is almost never there, the laugh track is not present to enhance something that's already funny.

    *edit* - Just recalled a sitcom episode which was rather infamous with improper use of a laugh track: the two-part Bicycle Man episodes of Diff'rent Strokes. Literally getting laugh tracks as the bicycle shop owner is making sexual passes at two children, as well as when the kids are describing watching naked cartoons and getting drunk/drugged by the shop owner. Classic example of using a laugh track to purposefully manipulate the audience into laughing at stuff that is really not funny.
    Last edited by exochaft; 2020-01-03 at 08:44 AM.
    “Society is endangered not by the great profligacy of a few, but by the laxity of morals amongst all.”
    “It's not an endlessly expanding list of rights — the 'right' to education, the 'right' to health care, the 'right' to food and housing. That's not freedom, that's dependency. Those aren't rights, those are the rations of slavery — hay and a barn for human cattle.”
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  14. #34
    The best of Frasier beats the best of Seinfeld. Period.

    But Frasier couldn't maintain its brilliance in the later seasons, while Seinfeld held the same quality until the end.

    I'd call it a tie.

    Every other sitcom is far inferior to these two.

    It is the way.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    Married with Children had a similar sentimentality that Roseanne had. At the end of the day, they were family, struggling through their situation together.

    I will say, though that Al Bundy is a fat, married, beaten down version of, say, George Costanza. George could be his origin story.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I think you underappreciate the sentimentality of the family dynamic in that show (and Roseanne). Your family might not be friends with them, but the family's struggles are their own, and lots of families in America related to that.

    Whereas in Seinfeld, I could see any of the 4 abandoning and ghosting any of the others for no reason whatsoever. They're truly psychopaths.
    I actually Appreciated that show quite a lot. Despite kids that would rather spit on Al, and call each other Slut or Virgin, and a Wife that would rather spend all his Money and do nothing but watch TV and eat Bon bons, when it came down to an "Us vs Them" scenario they stuck together like no one else. Or in the Rare occasions where Al could finally improve his own life, at the cost of his family's, he wouldn't. There are not a lot today in the Real Would who wouldn't hesitate. My entire mentioning on "Married with Children" was the OP's mention that Seinfeld was the show to break the Traditional sitcom tropes, while both Married with Children and Roseanne had done just that, albeit in different ways, 1 year (Roseanne) and 2 years (Married with Children) before Seinfeld did their take on the "New sitcom" spin. I liked and Watched all there shows, though to be fair, I can't watch Seinfeld in reruns. For me it was funny the first time around, but lost it's humor in the 2 time round. Married with Children and Roseanne (original) still can make me laugh in reruns.
    Last edited by Shadowsgrace; 2020-01-03 at 03:51 PM.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    Facts : It was an unfunny show (take the laugh track out to see), with horrible characters (self admitted by the show) that literally did nothing (self admitted by the show and show creators).

    Opinions : George was miserable, Elaine was annoying, Kramer was a moron and Jerry was a vacuum. The only good characters were the supporting characters like Newman.
    Facts, your opinion is irrelevant, Seinfeld is and will be remembered as one of the top 5 or 10 Sitcoms of all time.
    Yes the characters are miserable, that's part of the joke. Yes, its a show about nothing, thats literally the HOOK of the show.
    GTFO with your "hate whats popular" edgelord tripe.
    READ and be less Ignorant.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by VGAddict View Post
    I've been getting into watching TV shows and analyzing them lately. I've been reading that Seinfeld is the most influential TV show of all time. I was just a kid when Seinfeld ran, so I didn't watch it growing up.

    For those who did, how did Seinfeld change TV?
    I'd argue frasier and cheers were more influental

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    Quote Originally Posted by IIamaKing View Post
    GTFO with your "hate whats popular" edgelord tripe.
    Because it's impossible to hate the show that's popular. Sounds like the hook was for idiots honestly. People who want nothing more than to binge watch a literal self described nothing because they themselves have nothing better to do.

    Misery goes full circle

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by prwraith View Post
    Because it's impossible to hate the show that's popular. Sounds like the hook was for idiots honestly. People who want nothing more than to binge watch a literal self described nothing because they themselves have nothing better to do.

    Misery goes full circle
    I don't like Cheers or Frasier, but that was like four burns in one sentence.

    I indulge in Frasier myself because of its simplicity and innovation. It didn't invent the wheel, but it did damn well with it. It's a show about nothing, yeah, but after an 8-9 hour work day of using my brain and dealing with dick heads LIKE Jerry, Elaine, and George Costanza, on the most stressful days, I really have no interest in insightful story. I just want to watch a bunch of dislikable like-minded morons I deal with on a daily basis with the worst qualities the average person can possibly have, just a sliver short of being a complete sociopath engage in complete and utter pointless car crash situations, or meaningless squabbles and self-defeating endeavors. It's just good scandalous TV. I definitely don't expect to learn a life lesson from Seinfeld or any sitcom really.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowsgrace View Post
    Roseanne - First episode date: October 18, 1988.

    Married With Children - First episode date: April 5, 1987.

    Married With Children drinks the Beer (Icehole specifically) and tosses back the Empty. *Burp*

    Edit: And just for Context. Seinfeld - First episode date: July 5, 1989.
    Both of those shows were still very family oriented in a house in the suburbs.
    Neither of them were ground breaking or different than the "family ties/growing pains" model. Except the characters were a bit more dysfunctional.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Kami Dende View Post
    Because the Actors played off each other instead of the Actors being directed 24/7. They had amazing Chemistry, they all have extremely different Acting backgrounds. Yet they made it work.

    It's much the same reason why It's Always Sunny works so well. But that itself has been described as Seinfeld on Crack.
    And I love both!

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