Please tell me how Nightborne being monks before druids makes sense?

[ravenmoon]

Druidism was not introduced as an elven thing. Cenarius taught it to Malfurion. Tauren claim they were taught first. This was later clarified in Chronicle that Cenarius lived among the Yaungol and they learned basic nature magic from Cenarius. Malfurion was the first trained mortal Druid, emphasis on mortal.

That doesn't make sense, Malfurion was the first druid and for 10k years until after wc3, only elves were druids...this is why I say druidsm in wow is an elven thing (for all you newer players, and I mean newer as in joined warcraft after wow and likely after wotlk). Malfurion developed Cenarius' teachings to the level that was high enough to be a class of it's own.

If you know your lore also, Cenarius involves himself with the night elves shortly after their creation, these arcane elves show a benevolent love for life and nature with an intelligence that so stands out, forest spirits spread words of their deeds to the demi gods on Hyjal and Cenarius their greatest physically reveals himself and teaches them.

When their arcane love grows so strong many stop following the forest ways (it's not druidsm yet) he leaves them (knowing he isn't getting through any longer I.e, appreciated is the implication), this is when he goes and starts hunting with the tauren, teaching early tauren some of his things (and where the early tauren druid connection comes in, but it's still not developed into what would later become druidsm at this point - but we use the name so you know what field this is).

So night elves first, then tauren.

However the tauren wander off too, (though unlike the night elves, I reckon they still revered him), and by the time when he is now a legend myth amongst the night elves just before the first demons arrive 10k years ago, Malfurion finds him searching for his calling and a way to save his people who in their arcane obsession had lost their souls (read WotA; The Well of Eternity) . Together with Malfurion, the story of the war of the Ancients continues and Malfurion wins the war, Cenarius continues teaching him and he develops his Shandos earlier teachings into what becomes druidsm, the night elves make a pact with the green dragonflight to work in evolving the world through the dreams, most of the male night elves who were Moonguard and highborne not loyal to Darth'remar switch to druidsm because of the need to ban the practice of arcane. The art/craft develops a sophistication pretty much like night elven society developed the arcane into the levels that 10k years later wc3 mages still hadn't come close to.

Only night elves are druids at this point until Malfurion teaches Hamul Runtetotem after Wc3 and we get tauren druids. If you were involved with warcraft in the early 00s you would know only night elves were druids and only Male night elves. Chris Metzen wanted to keep this for the game but his colleagues at blizzard wanted no gender differences, and wanted the factions to have the same classes, eventually, both druids and warlocks became a thing for both factions with the other devs barely accepting that Paladin and shaman should be unique too the factions which later changed in TBC.

Interviews revealed this. It is my opinion that Chris Metzen has not been the same concerning warcraft since then, I believe he became less influential and motivated after being undermined and over ruled on these issues (my opinion here), I think seeing his colleagues unwilling to protect and value the lore and uphold its integrity hurt the sensitive guy big time, and from a lore perspective, many of the gameplay changes like 2 factions, instead of 4, female and tauren druids, alliance warlocks, male night elf priests were criticised. But wow was so successful, no one cared at blizzard ( my opinion because nothing changed) I assume developers became vindicated in their choice when the great arguments of alliance advantage with Paladin or horde advantage with shaman sparked flame wars all over the official boards.

By TBC, they opened up both classes to the opposite faction.

But to answer your question, no, druidsm was an elven thing at first.

- - - Updated - - -

Try to proof read you when you use your phone to respond xD

I just noticed, I was busy typing another response, that then turned into a mini essay which I just posted, then noticed all the stupid typos. Will edit

- - - Updated - - -

they are another kind of druid, the druids are not just the ones with cenarius and night elf shenanigans

Night elf shenanigans? You have no respect for your elders do you, these are 10k yar old + people who formed and developed the arts of magecraft, druidsm, demon hunting from arcane, nature and fel studies to the greatest extents in warcraft lore.

Night elven shenanigans indeed - when it ccomes to mages, druids, demon hunting show some respect, and these are no novice hunters and preists either, they are the most long lived and well practiced/developed in all these of all the Azerothian native races. You youngster punks these days... that's the problem with humans and orcs, they get a few successes at things and now they thing they are unrivalled masters of all. pfft

[baskev]

Well your point about lightforged being death knights or void elves does make the point that nightborne druids is not the least likely class combination by a long shot, and my point was that it has legitimate reason to be.

Yes it make it not that weird for them to do it. But lore wise it does make no sense.

However your point about corruption is not true for all the nightborne or blood elves. Nightborne didn't corrupt a naaru or feed on fel power, they over indulged on a pure source of arcane power for a longer period and greater extent than normal kaldorei society did in the pre-sundering era, because their circumstances placed them in that position (their city was low on food resources, and they solved the problem by literally feeding off a pure arcane source in a clever adaptation albeit crude and not really natural way) this caused the twisting of their body to the skinny form we have and caused the curse they would endure when cut off from it. It wasn't a corruption really, but an abuse that gets healed thanks to nature balancing work with the arcane a project the VAlewalker order was working on gets perfected by the druid Valewalker Farodin.

So I don't think that is sufficient enough reason, and we see that even in a blood elf society where some corrupt powers, there are others who do not, the blood elves had a redemption arc remember, they may have once done that, but even then not all did it, and many who did turned away and started using some of their magics correctly in a non corrupt/feed way.

Who's to say some of those would be disqualified from becoming druids?

I have come to accept lightforged and void elf DKs I guess because if any race dies, when it is raised by death powers, it would have a natural affinity for death powers above the powers it's body in life was more naturally attuned to, whether that be arcane, nature, light, void, elemental etc. Therefore any race or class once killed and raised to undeath can become a death knight. - At least that is how I view it.

Nightborne are in a way corrupted elves. They are linked to a source of power. If they have non of that power they will withter and die ( pun intended). And in that regard they are like blood elves. They can not excist without that power. And yes Valewalker Farodin expermints helped them....by giving them a new source of "food".
Valewalker Farodin is not a druid but a proto druid. And shell, minor example of what a druid becomes....read the wiki/pedia and play the game.


You act like its a diet, you can heal from. Blood elves are less dependend since their "redemption" . But they still need it.

So they still have that power in them. And that causes them not to be druids. Prime example with shamans is thrall. Green Jeebus walked away from his path etc and lost his connection to his shamman side/powers. Most non night elf species have a biologicacl/magic barrier that prevents them.


I have alse accepted that LF and VE are becomming DK"s but i do not agree for the same reasons why blood,nightborn,void elves can not be druids.
Their body's are filled/build in part from energy's that clash with eachother. So in that turn they should not be DK's.
I think the reason why blizzard did make them dk's. Is for people like you who would be mad about that. And a other reason

i think void elves, lightforged en machagnomes are/should be immun to being raised. Same goes worgen or green ( fel) orcs.
But blizzards writing is just to crap to realize that problem.

[ravenmoon]

I have alse accepted that LF and VE are becomming DK"s but i do not agree for the same reasons why blood,nightborn,void elves can not be druids. Their body's are filled/build in part from energy's that clash with eachother. .

Are you implying that arcane clashes with nature? Because it doesn't, the nighte lves are made from the arcane, and the high elves though they wielded it more than the darnasisan night elves for 7k years (not more than the shen'dralar night elves or the moonguard night elves) have still less natural arcana in their body thanks to the exile.

Furthermore if the arcane actually clashed with nature, then night elves won't be able to wield nature, but their lore paints them as having being born from the arcane with an affinity to it, and also having a love for nature which they were taught to be good with.

Also in the lore the arcane boosts

nature - a

it extends life, makes it more intelligent, makes it grow bigger and stronger, in fact all life is built from the arcane according to warcraft lore, it makes a lot of sense why night elves are good at both the arcane and nature, and why practicing arcane elves, whether night, high, void, nighborne, blood wouldn't make them any less suitable for nature, but more.

[Aucald]

Are you implying that arcane clashes with nature? Because it doesn't, the nighte lves are made from the arcane, and the high elves though they wielded it more than the darnasisan night elves for 7k years (not more than the shen'dralar night elves or the moonguard night elves) have still less natural arcana in their body thanks to the exile.

The Arcane doesn't "clash" with Nature, per se; but they are culturally-speaking two very different ways of viewing the world in the context of WoW and especially Night Elven history and culture. In the history of the Night Elves there was a significant moving away from the more rustic naturalism of the Druidic path toward a more cosmopolitan and urbane culture that emphasized mastery of the Arcane over the mastery of Nature. This culminated in the disaster of the War of the Ancients, and a social schism that saw the rise of naturalism over the former cosmopolitan nature of Kaldorei society, and thus the rise of Druidism over the Arcane. The divide being intimated here is more cultural as opposed to elemental, as it were - with the Nightborne being a segment of the populace who upheld the principles of Arcane mastery like the High Elves who fled Kalimdor (though the Nightborne's reasoning was due to their being hid beneath the shield over Suramar City and thus not being part of the reformation of Kaldorei society led by Malfurion and Tyrande).

[Lolites]

Malfurion was the first druid and for 10k years until after wc3, only elves were druids...

well, malfurion was first MORTAL druid, and since keepers of the grove were druids in wc3, you are technicaly speaking wrong...
and as far as i know we have no clue when trolls become druids (lorewise), but their civilisation is older than the nelf one, so it seems unlikely they become druids only recently (however, its possible)

[Syegfryed]

Night elf shenanigans?

ye´elf shenanigans, meaning you don't need to follow their shenanigans to be an druid

You have no respect for your elders do you, these are 10k yar old + people who formed and developed the arts of magecraft, druidsm, demon hunting from arcane, nature and fel studies to the greatest extents in warcraft lore.

Zandalari are older, and developed the "arts of magecraft, and prob druidism before, and even then had their "kind" of demon hunter under the demoniac

Night elven shenanigans indeed - when it ccomes to mages, druids, demon hunting show some respect,

no, i don't think i will show it, i mean, even the draenei were mages before

they are the most long lived and well practiced/developed in all these of all the Azerothian native races.

except they aren't and are behind Zandalari, trolls and Draenei

You youngster punks these days... that's the problem with humans and orcs, they get a few successes at things and now they thing they are unrivalled masters of all. pfft

thats always the problem with elves, egocentric and self centered knife ears, thinking they are better than everybody, always funny

[ravenmoon]

The Arcane doesn't "clash" with Nature, per se; but they are culturally-speaking two very different ways of viewing the world in the context of WoW and especially Night Elven history and culture. In the history of the Night Elves there was a significant moving away from the more rustic naturalism of the Druidic path toward a more cosmopolitan and urbane culture that emphasized mastery of the Arcane over the mastery of Nature. This culminated in the disaster of the War of the Ancients, and a social schism that saw the rise of naturalism over the former cosmopolitan nature of Kaldorei society, and thus the rise of Druidism over the Arcane. The divide being intimated here is more cultural as opposed to elemental, as it were - with the Nightborne being a segment of the populace who upheld the principles of Arcane mastery like the High Elves who fled Kalimdor (though the Nightborne's reasoning was due to their being hid beneath the shield over Suramar City and thus not being part of the reformation of Kaldorei society led by Malfurion and Tyrande).

I think a lot of people are still caught up in mis understanding the motivation for the long vigil in relation to arcane and nature practice and culture amongst elves and in particular the night elf group and what it means in the current lore as well as why changes have happened in game and I sometimes make these unpopular assertions as you can see for yourself in Zyky, baskev and Specialka's responses above.

Druidsm is a class, it's own, its disciples follow a specific lifestyle that is most prevalent in the long vigil for an entire racial faction because of circumstances.

Now as you know, druidsm doesn't clash with the arcane or mage culture, they are merely different. Darnassian culture develops so uniquely under an arcane practice ban that prohibits any arcane magical QoL changes, it doesnt mean the cultures cant co exist or even inter mingle or you cant have followers of druidsm around mages or urban civilization in this age based on what they are, you can (as wow lore clearly shows in the post WC3 era), their code, like the monks' or a priests merely defined a different lifestyle.

The thing people keep confusing is that the arcane ban during the long vigil ais as some sort of arcane incompatability with nature or as Darnassian hatred for arcane, which is incorrect. Night elves ban the arcane primarily to prevent the Legiom returning during that era, Malfurion according to WotA you can guess also believes a little break from it would do wonders to restore his people's perspective, but that motivation is not a long term goal nor the reason fir the aggressive uphold and lethal penalty attached to the ban, the reason it lasts that long and is so vigorously enforced is to prevent a demonic invasion they 100% believe the world won't survive. So during the era, using the arcane for spells is tantamount to dooming the world, and their actions, laws all fit that extreme response. But in under to understand things now, these new users need to understand the reason for the previous era and what exactly was in conflict and why.

This would change after warcraft 3, but the insight is necessary to evaluate any nature/ arcane interaction amongst the elves.

Now culturally, the highborne arrogant culture around the invasion is what night elves dont want, even though the highborne return with the ancient kaldorei culture after Wc3, the part of it that became nasty due to addiction, arrogance and jealousy of the Queen would be gone. What they dont like about that era boils down to the arrogance of their kin and reckless use of magic as opposed to arcane magic itself or general customs of their people.

I think that if we could look into the current highborne we will find a culture similar to that shown in the Farondis in Azsuna, arcane but absent of the haughty hubris and squabbling over the Queens affection, and instead full of nobility and benevolence in the original spirit of these people.

The difference is they study the arcane not druidsm, but they aren't at odds with druidsm nor it with them any more than druidsm is at odds with Elunism. You can have a highborne mage that reverses the wilds and believes Elune a Goddess without living in a forest and adopting druid culture or priestly ways. Just like you have scientists and engineers who believe in Jesus Christ and love/enjoy nature though their field and fascination is technology and they are very much urban culture.

We also see highborne cultures develop and change from the invasion era state amongst other elven groups, the high elves develop a new high culture, it likely has similarities to the current shen'dralar culture amongst the Darnassians, as well as the Nightbodne culture (which is the pre sundering kaldorei culture around the invasion era where these guys just replace Azshara love with Elisande), but it is different.

Like the pre addiction night elves didn't clash with druidsm, there is no justification once you understand the history, for any enmity or incompatibility to exist, in fact they have more reason to interact and bond and grow in new and positive ways given the much increased knowkedge and understanding both of the 2 magical forces and the effects of things like addictions,motivations of the demons and their own races natural aptitude,inclinations undeveloped discipline and lessons learned being much more developed. Merely being out of isolation helps immensely.

[Stormdash]

It doesn't many any sense whatsoever. Blizzard just can't imagine a world where Horde players can be elves and druids at the same time. We can have all the other lol-lore you want, but that's just a bridge too far I guess.

[mickybrighteyes]

That doesn't make sense, Malfurion was the first druid and for 10k years until after wc3, only elves were druids...

This was how it was stated in wc3, when night elves were purely post-vigil following "wood elf amazons" in the lore. Now we have Cenarius roaming the pre-sundering Azeroth existing as he did and interacting with multiple groups so it's rather muddled now.

this is why I say druidsm in wow is an elven thing (for all you newer players, and I mean newer as in joined warcraft after wow and likely after wotlk). Malfurion developed Cenarius' teachings to the level that was high enough to be a class of it's own.

Malfurion developed the teachings after the sundering not before.

If you know your lore also, Cenarius involves himself with the night elves shortly after their creation, these arcane elves show a benevolent love for life and nature with an intelligence that so stands out, forest spirits spread words of their deeds to the demi gods on Hyjal and Cenarius their greatest physically reveals himself and teaches them.

Cenarius also left the night elves after a time and was reduced to a legend or myth in night elf society. A legend Malfurion/Illidan/Tyrande were surprised to find out was real.

So night elves first, then tauren.

Well not night elves first anymore. But really the writing team have sort of written themselves into a corner with a lot of the "ancient history" of early azeroth and have to keep retconning stuff.

Now we have Cenarius interacting with what might turn into Tauren before the night elves, mingling with night elves... leaving the night elves and later again teaching Malfurion.

But to answer your question, no, druidsm was an elven thing at first.

Druidism was a Cenarius/Malfurion thing. That spread into a night elf thing only later on when the society decided to shift away from arcane and adopted the Long Vigil mindset. Something to remember cause the various pockets of the old night elf empire wouldn't have associated with it.

Night elf shenanigans? You have no respect for your elders do you, these are 10k yar old + people who formed and developed the arts of magecraft, druidsm, demon hunting from arcane, nature and fel studies to the greatest extents in warcraft lore.

the 10k+ portion for mage/arcane sure... that might even be added on top of the time between war of the ancients. But demon hunting and druidism were 'new' when the legion was invading and had really just Malfurion and Illidan as the examples. Now when we get to wc3 and are a decade or so into the modern era? yeah the night elves are the premier druid/archer/ranger faction... they've been that since the sundering. But that was not the case when Kalimdor was one continuous landmass.

[Aucald]

The thing people keep confusing is that the arcane ban during the long vigil ais as some sort of arcane incompatability with nature or as Darnassian hatred for arcane, which is incorrect. Night elves ban the arcane primarily to prevent the Legiom returning during that era, Malfurion according to WotA you can guess also believes a little break from it would do wonders to restore his people's perspective, but that motivation is not a long term goal nor the reason fir the aggressive uphold and lethal penalty attached to the ban, the reason it lasts that long and is so vigorously enforced is to prevent a demonic invasion they 100% believe the world won't survive. So during the era, using the arcane for spells is tantamount to dooming the world, and their actions, laws all fit that extreme response. But in under to understand things now, these new users need to understand the reason for the previous era and what exactly was in conflict and why.

You are mistaken here, as what I said above was specifically that the two spheres don't clash, as in they're not mutually incompatible - but there was a preexisting cultural divide between those who studied Nature and those who studied the Arcane, as evidenced in the "War of the Ancients" trilogy of novels. This divide became several orders of magnitude deeper post-Sundering as the bulk of the Kaldorei blamed the Arcane and especially the Highborne practitioners under Azshara for what happened to Kalimdor and their civilization as a result of the war, but it was always present.

Night Elven society, as a result of the Long Vigil, has been culturally stagnant for nearly 10,000 years - the same being true of the society of Suramar City beneath the shield. Both of these societies are going to be very set in their ways and slow to change, but we have seen evidence of it - the Nightborne with their desire to reconnect with and explore the greater world post-Legion and the Night Elves with their re-acceptance of the Shen'dralar Highborne back into their ranks, albeit with pronounced skepticism and more than a little upheaval (as depicted in "Wolfheart").

[tankbug]

Lore reasons:
None. Every race should be able to be anything. Contradicts the past? Doesn't make sense physically? Invent new lore.

Practical reasons:
-Druid needs a lot of artwork.
-We don't need more elves on Horde.

[ravenmoon]

y
Zandalari are older, and developed the "arts of magecraft, and prob druidism before, and even then had their "kind" of demon hunter under the demoniac

Last I checked 200 years was an unusually long for a Zandalari, the culture may be older but not the individuals.

They used nature, arcane and other spells schools but not to the level that would be the mage or druid disciplines

think i will show it, i mean, even the draenei were mages befeore

I said Azerithiannative races

thats always the problem with elves, egocentric and self centered knife ears, thinking they are better than everybody, always funny

Isn't that their charm tho?

- - - Updated - - -

well, malfurion was first MORTAL druid, and since keepers of the grove were druids in wc3, you are technicaly speaking wrong...
and as far as i know we have no clue when trolls become druids (lorewise), but their civilisation is older than the nelf one, so it seems unlikely they become druids only recently (however, its possible)

nOT REALLY, i'M TRYINGTO HELP PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THAT BEING DRUID IS A LEVEL OF ADVANCMENT AND PARTICULAR WAY OF USING NATURE AND ARCANE ARTS TO A COMPREHENSIVE ENOUGH DEGREE OF ADVANCEMENT AND PHILSOPHY.

Using nature magic is not exclusive to druidsm, and the earlier practicioners of the magic were not called druids, becuase the elvel at which it was used and the way it was used was not structured and developed enough to what you call the druid today.

this is shat teh developers want to convey as they speak of Night elves and Tauren learning nature magic wielding millennia before Malfurion is sadi to become the first druid, some of them even shapeshift, yet they aren't caleld druids any more than the botanist blood elf in the Botannica that can change into a tree form is called a druid. Druid requires a certain high degree and breadth of knowledge and practice that incorporates thenature, arcane, solar , healign and shapeshifting elements that constitute the class, you can wield various parts of these to a certain level, but you're not really a druid until you become highly trained and sufficiently advanced to the level Malfurion teaches those who want to follow that way.


According to the lore, Trolls only become druids recently, Gonk kicks this off by speaking to Darkspear priest and tells her to go seek the Cenarion circle, it is likely at htis time that he also starts training the Zandalari priests in his sect further with teh techniques that Malfurion and Cenarius has develped. Remember Cenarius doesn't just dictate things to Malfruion, it is Malfurion utilising and expnding Cenarius' teachings, structuring them in a way that get to be called druidm a fey like Cenarius would not need such classification, structuring or limits, these things only exist for civilzised societies who have order and functions, roles and parts with the limited capacity of mortals breaking and re-organising them into ways that best make sense to them. I don't know if this helps.

- - - Updated - - -

You are mistaken here, as what I said above was specifically that the two spheres don't clash, as in they're not mutually incompatible -

Then I owe you an apology and confession, I didn't carefully rad through what you said and was in a rush to reply. I however hope my response is more helpful for the less familiar users I mentioned in the reply above. I assumed you were familiar with what I was saying and most of what I wrote was for there benefit.

but there was a preexisting cultural divide between those who studied Nature and those who studied the Arcane, as evidenced in the "War of the Ancients" trilogy of novels. This divide became several orders of magnitude deeper post-Sundering as the bulk of the Kaldorei blamed the Arcane and especially the Highborne practitioners under Azshara for what happened to Kalimdor and their civilization as a result of the war, but it was always present.

Yes, and it would have some culturally influences even in the most intelligent races even when there is no logical need for it any more due to the change in circumstances (like the legion returning and being defeated, curing of addiction) and the intelligent people knowing this, some manifestation of divide will naturally still be there., it's form would change, and over time it would erode, I think a way it would show itself is in general segregation between orders, they may not hate each other, even trust each other, but they won't mmix, each order has lived in its own circles for nearly 10k years, we are told this, the druids didn't mix with the sentinels and order of Elune much at all during the long vigil, and the shen'dralar highborne and Moonguard were completely cut off from the others, - so even after addiction is ended, arrogance replaced with humility, responsible and accepted arcane practices prevalent, they still won't mix much, I think that is one of the proofs of some measure of divide still existing

Night Elven society, as a result of the Long Vigil, has been culturally stagnant for nearly 10,000 years - the same being true of the society of Suramar City beneath the shield. Both of these societies are going to be very set in their ways and slow to change, but we have seen evidence of it - the Nightborne with their desire to reconnect with and explore the greater world post-Legion and the Night Elves with their re-acceptance of the Shen'dralar Highborne back into their ranks, albeit with pronounced skepticism and more than a little upheaval (as depicted in "Wolfheart").

Indeed, and this is what I find interesting and wish they would explore detail. This is the richness of wow that their story telling has created and can provide a lot of interesting development.

Now I wish a clever writer who understands sociology, but is quite creative, and intelligent to maintain the racial parameters and characteristics of the night elf race (seeing it is a fictional non human race so you can't predict their behaviour solely by human standards like in the real world). would be able to write interesting stories and interactions. The post WC3 era, the shen'dralar coming in, Suramar returning the nightborne, the Farondis, The Illidari, Illidan being proved to have being right, revelations of the demons true intent, Elune and the arcane connection both in druidsm and night elf cultural society... these are all things that are big changes from the pre 3rd war state we initially see them introduced in WC3 (even when we are told their backstory in the manual).

Sigh if only they would explore it more. I feel the nightborne in many respect was an exploration from the kaldorei highborne angle, but much of what we could get has been interfered with by them going horde and the need for races in opposite factions to all of a sudden forget everything about themselves that is connected with those in the opposing faction, including language - (see human /forsaken, human/blood elf - etc)


Sigh, I guess there just aren't enough resources.. but surely someone could have written a book, or another updated RPG book, with a lot more detail, etc. but then the zones and races don't get updated either after huge events that would forever change them.. we have seen this before in Cata, MoP, WoD for other races too.

- - - Updated - - -

Lore reasons:
None. Every race should be able to be anything. Contradicts the past? Doesn't make sense physically? Invent new lore.

Practical reasons:
-Druid needs a lot of artwork.
-We don't need more elves on Horde.

There is a truth to that, I caould write ways where every race being everything could be a thing without undermining the cultural identity of the race, and an alternative method where if every race can't be everything, then at least every playstyel avvialble to every race where certain playstyles (i.e. classes) are given unique skins or identities that are more in line with that race or a group of races to amke it work.

[Syegfryed]

Last I checked 200 years was an unusually long for a Zandalari, the culture may be older but not the individuals.

it matters little the individual, but the culture and race, and the culture and troll race is older

They used nature, arcane and other spells schools but not to the level that would be the mage or druid disciplines

they literally are, trolls mastered all forms of magics way before other races

I said Azerithiannative races

trolls are still above

Isn't that their charm tho?

you mean their defects and why so much people dislike then and their players? no thanks

i'M TRYINGTO HELP PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THAT BEING DRUID IS A LEVEL OF ADVANCMENT AND PARTICULAR WAY OF USING NATURE AND ARCANE ARTS TO A COMPREHENSIVE ENOUGH DEGREE OF ADVANCEMENT AND PHILSOPHY.

thats rly odd, when you are the one preaching the nightborne should be druids when they don't have any of this

Using nature magic is not exclusive to druidsm,

but nature magic is what define a druid, hence why nightborne druids make no sense

yet they aren't caleld druids any more than the botanist blood elf in the Botannica that can change into a tree form is called a druid.

because that blood elf is using arcane magic to manipulate nature, a fake

Druid requires a certain high degree and breadth of knowledge and practice that incorporates thenature, arcane, solar , healign and shapeshifting elements that constitute the class

another point who disqualify the nightborne as druids

According to the lore, Trolls only become druids recently,

only the darkspear trolls become druids recently, not the zandalari, and the amani and drakari could be druids even before

it is likely at htis time that he also starts training the Zandalari priests in his sect further with teh techniques that Malfurion and Cenarius has develped

not its not, thats nonsense and not likely at all

[cparle87]

Nah, they shouldnt even have priests. They are much less religious/faithful than other elves

They're basically a copy of what the night elves were 10,000 years ago. That's why Tyrande was so spiteful to them. They're a literal reminder of everything the kaldorei have spent the last 10,000 years trying to distance themselves from. Quick reminder, the Priestesses of Elune were already well established and a powerful force in the old Kaldorei Empire.

[Amnaught]

They're basically a copy of what the night elves were 10,000 years ago. That's why Tyrande was so spiteful to them. They're a literal reminder of everything the kaldorei have spent the last 10,000 years trying to distance themselves from. Quick reminder, the Priestesses of Elune were already well established and a powerful force in the old Kaldorei Empire.

They were cut off from the stars and moons for 10,000 years. There's not one Nightborne priest in lore, none of them mention worshiping Elune. Tyrande was spiteful of them because she thinks Elisande represents the majority of Nightborne, and she's not wrong.

[cparle87]

They were cut off from the stars and moons for 10,000 years. There's not one Nightborne priest in lore, none of them mention worshiping Elune. Tyrande was spiteful of them because she thinks Elisande represents the majority of Nightborne, and she's not wrong.

I'm saying that the priestesses of Elune were already an established presence in Azshara's kingdom, which the nightborne in the present are pretty much a pristine copy of. Tyrande looks at the nightborne and sees the kaldorei from 10,000 years ago who enabled the Legion's invasion. The kaldorei she's done everything in her power to distance.

[The True King]

It doesn't

[Syegfryed]

Doesn't matter, regardless of experience in WoW you either have magical affinity or you don't. You can learn to get better with your magic - you can't learn to be magic

everyone in wow can and have 'magical affinity" if a race can't be a certain race is pure because the race, generally don't do that, like Draeneis not being warlocks, don't mean don't have the affinity, their society just despise the practices

Monks are fucking easy to be, thats why every race can be with just a teacher in their homes, just like warriors, hunters, rogues and even mages

otherwise literally everyone would do it because having magic is objectively better than no magic

but every race indeed does, one are more inclined to other because cultural things

[Kithelle]

I don't understand why this didn't happen. Valewalker Farodin's close and integral role with the nightborne as well as the Val'sharah druids and priest refugees who join them up, not to mention the very active Botanists who work with nature magic amongst the nightborne...


This demonstrates both an aptitude for nature and relationships with druids who are actively help and like them. Valewalker Farodin is fond of them. Furthermore you see they have members that love nature, why aren't they druids?

The Arcan'dor the centre of their new identity replacing the Nightwell with its dual arcane/nature composition

How the F*** are they able to be monks before druids...?


I don't understand...? Druidsm in wow no longer efels elven, seriously 1 out of 6 playable druids are elves. It feels more a troll/tauren thing now. I use to feel druidsm was the elven equivalent of other races shamanism, a more intellectual approach to nature full of elven softness and love for the beauty of nature.. it has that tone for it. Whiles shamanism felt more Tauren/orc/troll like - based not on love but on respect/fear for nature of w hich the lements are a major part of (just as when we think of natural sources, we think of wind, storms earthquakes, as well as trees and animals - it's all part of nature in our understanding).

Anyway, druidsm in wow had a distinct elven feel to it that it has lost by the failure to bring it to the other elven groups. The most likely candidate were the nightborne.

Nightborne gave up their connection to nature when they closed themselves off from it?

[Psykho]

Just had a thought what if the reason the Suramar disguised Feral Druids were only able to run around with the exception of the guards was because they just though someone let their pet Manasaber out or perhaps "goddammit the botanists are trying to figure out druidism agains

- - - Updated - - -

Nightborne gave up their connection to nature when they closed themselves off from it?

technically they only cut themselves off from the nature that wasn't controlled like their gardens and zoo