Iranian General Sulemain and others reported killed in Baghdad airstrike

[Dacien]

That's nice, but we still remember living through 2016 and having you and the rest of the Trump camp continually insist Hillary was going to lead the nation into war and pointing to Obama's foreign policy as an example of it.

So you here saying "you're optimistic" about Trump's policy while in the same breath trying to justify it by its similarity to Obama's foreign policy is just clearly letting your bias hang out.

I came back to post after a four-year hiatus in late November, 2016, after Trump won. So your memory isn't very good.

[Elegiac]

I came back to post after a four-year hiatus in late November, 2016, after Trump won. So your memory isn't very good.

"2016" referring to the electoral cycle, perhaps I should have been more specific.

Point still stands. Like with illegal immigration, you're trying to use Obama's policies as a shield while forgetting you spent his entire Presidency complaining about Obama's policies.

Fact of the matter is that 'optimism' in this case is just willful ignorance. It's an incredibly delicate situation for which not one person in the current administration is remotely qualified at this point.

[nonameelf]

Yep. I'm not sure why we're suddenly supposed to treat this administration as business as usual when the Commander in Chief is a chronic and habitual liar that has literally been impeached for obstruction of justice.

Yeah, unfortunately the Trump admin's word is worth less than dirt.

[Dacien]

"2016" referring to the electoral cycle, perhaps I should have been more specific.

Point still stands. Like with illegal immigration, you're trying to use Obama's policies as a shield while forgetting you spent his entire Presidency complaining about Obama's policies.

I didn't really begrudge Obama that at the time. I was tempted by the arguments that he circumvented Congress, but I understood that there was no foul play there; he took decisive actions in America's interest. And I sort of take the same view here.

Fact of the matter is that 'optimism' in this case is just willful ignorance. It's an incredibly delicate situation for which not one person in the current administration is remotely qualified at this point.

I dunno, that's just how I feel. Wouldn't it be great if we tackled terrorism abroad and it was decisive, measured, and appropriate? And that we handled it with all due care and avoided missteps? I like to think we can actually do it this time.

[Hif]

from what I can find, their bases were bombed for attacking a Iraq Base that a US contractor was killed? then they attacked the Embassy, then we attacked their leader.

If they are over their attacking ISIL I've not dug up why they were attacking the base the US person got killed in?

Link from a credible source?

[Dadwen]

Link from a credible source?

https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/world/2020/01/03/iran-iraq-trump-soleimani-assassination/2803733001/
https://www.france24.com/en/20191228...-rocket-attack
https://www.dw.com/en/iraq-us-civili...ase/a-51815590
https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/27/polit...led/index.html

[nonameelf]

https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/world/2020/01/03/iran-iraq-trump-soleimani-assassination/2803733001/
https://www.france24.com/en/20191228...-rocket-attack
https://www.dw.com/en/iraq-us-civili...ase/a-51815590
https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/27/polit...led/index.html

These say that it could have been ISIS, which is still active in the area, but that the US is blaming Iran.

So it's basically down to trusting the word of the Trump admin on this.

[Xeones]

Link from a credible source?

I wasn't aware this was a question.

It's not in doubt that the man who was killed is responsible for the deaths of hundreds of americans. He was training Shia militias in Iraq initially to fight ISIS but now that they are gone the US is the target.

[Dadwen]

These say that it could have been ISIS, which is still active in the area, but that the US is blaming Iran.

So it's basically down to trusting the word of the Trump admin on this.

Or it was the same people that knew where Soleimani was going to be when and where. (guessing cheetos man would not even know where Iran or Iraq is on a map).

Also kinda of Odd no one took responsibly for it (most the little groups eat up that kinda Publicity.)

[Halicia]

Yeah, unfortunately the Trump admin's word is worth less than dirt.

And this is the problem that's caused longterm harm to the credibility of the United States.

Trump showed the world that allies and agreements made by the US only last as long as the people involved remain in office.

Even if Iraq & Iran were inclined towards some form of peace treaty, why would they make one in an election year when the next President might simply ignore it to spite Trump ?

And who the !@#$ authorized Trump to unilaterally declare war ? Even Nixon's powers of the military were restrained as his political situation became tenuous.

- - - Updated - - -

I wasn't aware this was a question.

It's not in doubt that the man who was killed is responsible for the deaths of hundreds of americans. He was training Shia militias in Iraq initially to fight ISIS but now that they are gone the US is the target.

The US is only a target because Trump broke the treaty on a whim in the first place. So how much of that blood are you willing to assign to him ?

[Edge-]

Yes but this isn't all that different than what was done under the previous administration. Sort of quasi-legal Executive action. There's nothing to be "terrified" about.

If you completely ignore her comment about the fact that we don't have a functional national security process in place, sure I guess this is just a standard quasi-legal Executive action.

But you've conveniently ignored that part, which was literally the whole point of the tweet, to dismiss this as just another "Executive action". We can debate their legality, but they had actually functional NSC's staffed with qualified people. Not this current ghost town of sycophants.

John Kelly comes to mind.

Past tense, both in his tenure and his qualifications.

Let's not forget that time he blatantly lied in a character assassination attempt against Rep. Frederica Williamson - https://www.poynter.org/newsletters/...lys-falsehood/

Or that time he defended known spousal abuser Rob Porter repeatedly, lying multiple times in the process - https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...935_story.html

Bonus points: He tried to get his staff to stay quiet about his lies in this matter and, because he'd lost their confidence and trust by that point, that meeting immediately leaked.

Or his interview where he confirmed that no, the White House isn't a "well-oiled machine" and spent time bashing the administration he worked for to try to save his reputation - https://www.yahoo.com/news/john-kell...181041711.html

He was at least qualified in terms of his bona-fides. But he proved that his reputation wasn't worth shit and he was human garbage as well.

I trust Pompeo to be quite capable.

Mike Pompeo has been a boot-licker since day-1, and under his tenure has lost the trust and confidence of diplomatic staff - https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/04/u...epartment.html

And it's not just his cabinet; there are people from the top down involved in this kind of far-reaching foreign policy action.

I'd love to know who was involved, actually! Because we legitimately don't know, and neither does Congress. But I guess some of the members of his club get to know, since they have the qualification of paying him to be members.

I dunno, it's just the sense I get. I am optimistic.

Well, your dogged optimism in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary is at least admirable, I guess.

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The US is only a target because Trump broke the treaty on a whim in the first place. So how much of that blood are you willing to assign to him ?

While withdrawing from the treaty definitely added to this, it's hardly the sole cause by any stretch of the imagination. Trump absolutely bears responsibility for this escalation, but there would have been continued provocations one way or the other. The US will remain a target for Iran as long as the current regime remains in power.

[Hif]

https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/world/2020/01/03/iran-iraq-trump-soleimani-assassination/2803733001/
https://www.france24.com/en/20191228...-rocket-attack
https://www.dw.com/en/iraq-us-civili...ase/a-51815590
https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/27/polit...led/index.html

Wait an Iraqi military base is attacked and you blame another iraqi military group? Seriously? They fought along side the regular iraqi army for 10 years. Yeah i call BS.

France 24 and DW say the coalition didn't blame anybody. On the US sources say its Iran like good little propaganda tools.

- - - Updated - - -

I wasn't aware this was a question.

It's not in doubt that the man who was killed is responsible for the deaths of hundreds of americans. He was training Shia militias in Iraq initially to fight ISIS but now that they are gone the US is the target.

Just like every US army general is responsible for 100,000s of civilian deaths. Remember the war in Iraq was illegal and everyone who served is a war criminal.

And again who said they targetted the US? The links provide say it could be ISIL.

[Dadwen]

Wait an Iraqi military base is attacked and you blame another iraqi military group? Seriously? They fought along side the regular iraqi army for 10 years. Yeah i call BS.

France 24 and DW say the coalition didn't blame anybody. On the US sources say its Iran like good little propaganda tools.

It's not odd at all no other groups came up and took responsibility? and the weapons uses is one commonly used by them, and by some reports as many as 30 of those long range rockets were fired?

[Xeones]

The US is only a target because Trump broke the treaty on a whim in the first place. So how much of that blood are you willing to assign to him ?

All of it.

This happened because of a decision Trump made and his decisions to escalate tension every step of the way.

My comment was to make it clear I wasn't ware anyone was questioning the culpability of this particular individual. Apparently Bush and Obama had both considered having him killed and declined because they were concerned over the response, not because they had concerns over whether he deserved it. He definitely deserved to die.

[Hif]

It's not odd at all no other groups came up and took responsibility? and the weapons uses is one commonly used by them, and by some reports as many as 30 of those long range rockets were fired?

No its not because if you knew the area you would know there are constant attacks that nobody takes responsibility for. Every day of the week. And evidence about the weapons? Please show me where the weapons they use are not used by any other group in the region.

[Dadwen]

No its not because if you knew the area you would know there are constant attacks that nobody takes responsibility for. Every day of the week. And evidence about the weapons? Please show me where the weapons they use are not used by any other group in the region.

I'm not familair with this news site but they seems to have a point.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world...n-ISIS-Iranian

On Twitter the UK based ELINT News, which monitors global conflict, suggested pro-Iranian militias are the most likely culprit.

They commented: “How many ISIS fighters do you see driving around with MRLS [multiple rocket launchers] mounted on vehicles these days in Iranian based Iraqi forces controlled areas.

“This pretty clearly points to Iranian backed forces.

“Didn’t drive off with the vehicle to avoid being targeted in an airstrike.”

[eschatological]

so they were still by proxy fighting for Iran?

*seems Iraq should not be too happy about a Iran backed (especially Iran giving their history) militia operation inside their borders.

Iran and Iraq have been much closer ever since...you know....we got rid of the Sunni government led by Saddam Hussein......and it's since been replaced with a very pro-Shia government.

Who could have foreseen that?

[nonameelf]

I'm not familair with this news site but they seems to have a point.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world...n-ISIS-Iranian

Iraqi's attacked their own base because?

[Dadwen]

Iraqi's attacked their own base because?

Because they are against the US backed Iraq gov't just maybe, and being paid and organized by the Iran Gov't.

I not 100% up on the Iraq but I'm fairly sure all the Iraqis don't play well with each other.

[nonameelf]

Because they are against the US backed Iraq gov't just maybe, and being paid and organized by the Iran Gov't.

They're sponsored by the Iraq government. They're against the government that they're working for?