The death spiral that is AV

[OriginalName]

How is it their fault? Because horde stomp the alliance atm ??

Remember a couple weeks ago, when alliance won every AV? With threads on this very forum to make fun of horde like "AV, alliance won the war" etc.....

Guess what, the horde adapted. Now we win. How about the alliance doing the same and change strategy rather than threatening to stop queuing??

"Hurr if you dont let me win, I stop playing Durr"

Like fucking kids ...

I'm not threatening to stop queueing, i've stopped queueing because every pug AV is 40 min long, because horde just defends, it's the most boring and dull shit. People go AFK once horde has camped mid for 30 min, then horde wins because more than 1/4 of ally is doing random shit, can't be bothered anymore.

Doesn't help that pug AVs can start with only 20 allies too, horde is too dense to just go and win, eventually ally loses because starting on such a backfoot but w/e it still took 25-35 minutes.

[Beuargh]

Well, you dont care about the win. I do.
I dont give a shit about honor/rep/ranks. You do.

In the end, seeing whats happening right now in AV, it seems a lot of horde players (if not the great majority) care about winning more than they care about honor/rep/ranks.....

[OriginalName]

Nah, horde cares about wasting time which is fine, i'm not gonna have my time wasted is all.

[Gratlim]

It’s called adaptive strategy. Ally won like 90% of av after launch, so horde changed tactics recently and the alliance players still try and rush Zerg it

It only took 48h for horde to push turtles systematicaly and win over 50% of AV. As soon as raiders were finished with rep farming again a couple of days later, they won 90%.

[Kralljin]

Feels so nice when Horde players bitch about queues when it's their own damn fault. Refreshing.

Yeah, only the stupid ones complain about that.

You don't benefit from faster queues, because everyone else on your faction has faster queues.
Matter of fact, these long queues give you actually the opportunity do to something else during that time, whether it's in WoW or IRL.

I seriously don't want to trade with any Alliance who currently tries to rank up, because it's literally back to back AV, as Horde, i get a break between each AV without even losing honor.

The only ones getting fucked over are the casuals who only have like 1-2h to play, but those are screwed on both sides.

[Akka]

Ironically, before av launched in classic, the consensus was that Alliance had a definite advantage over horde, that it wouldn’t be a fair fight.

It's funny because during Vanilla, it was clear that Horde had a huge advantage over Alliance in AV, due to their entry being noticeably closer to the frontline, their base being much better defended by towers and choking points and the rear of the Alliance base being subject to infiltration.

[chronia]

Yeah, only the stupid ones complain about that.

You don't benefit from faster queues, because everyone else on your faction has faster queues.
Matter of fact, these long queues give you actually the opportunity do to something else during that time, whether it's in WoW or IRL.

I seriously don't want to trade with any Alliance who currently tries to rank up, because it's literally back to back AV, as Horde, i get a break between each AV without even losing honor.

The only ones getting fucked over are the casuals who only have like 1-2h to play, but those are screwed on both sides.

Agree with the last part, and its basicly those players you generally don't want to screw, as they are they ppl that generally make up the bulk of the income for the publisher. You always want a stable and healty casual population.

But for the rest i dont think ranking as alliance is that bad, unless the players on your server arent good at setting the brackets. I don't rank myself, but from waht i can see most rankers on my server (alli side) are done on sunday at the lastest and then have downtime till wednesday.

[Ruchia]

Yeah but it's no like you're in a rush to get anything - Classic is a finite game, you can take 10 years to get whatever you want. If you get it too fast, what will you do in a couple years?

That's why people wanted Classic - to know that it will never get changed, never get fixed, never upgraded, that it's a game you can count on never evolving. Which, of course, people will take advantage of - they'll exploit it the best they could, they'll optimize everything to the best efficiency. Yeah, with a "live" game you can't do the same tactic forever because the devs will change it sooner or later, but here, you can.
This is exactly why some people said Vanilla wasn't good, because they could figure that taking it out of context and making it a single unchangable experience is not as amazing as it was back in the day.

But I think eventually the devs will come around and make some changes to Classic. Not sure when, it's not gonna be soon, but it will happen - they'll even explain why. They'll say it's because the players are much more knowledgeable and can organize a lot easier than back in the day, they need to make some changes to balance things out to ensure that it's closer to Vanilla experience.
Some people will moan, saying #nochanges, not understanding the concept at all. Some will say the same, knowing their efficiency just suffered a hit. And we'll all be on this forum moaning one way or another.

I don't know man. When talking in the guild. Many ppl came back partially for the nostalgia yes (well most likely the biggest part). But also the sense of community. I wouldn't mind if all of a sudden blackwing lair had new bosses or the bosses had new abilities to fuck over all the datamining.

The only sad part about classic is the datamining really. And I even thought the datamining sucked way back in the day.

So yea. I am all for a "classic / TBC" experience. I wouldn't mind WOD persé... but that was when interserver parties began and all that shit which basically was the beginning of everything i dislike about retail.

[Hawg]

If you're alliance and not taking advantage of instant queues with premades then you're doing it wrong. An organized ally premade wins in 5-6 minutes and can queue instantly for another AV after winning.

And where can you find these? The publicly advertised discord premades are all full and only taking applications from people willing to commit to 8+ hours a day, or healers, at least in EU.

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Personally, finished the rep grind a week or so ago and stopped queing. The only Alliance pugging arent connected to the pre-made GM groups. I pity puggers but theres a way to cheat the system and piggy back into premades if you think about how you queue.

What is this "way to cheat the system" and join premades? do share

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Feels so nice when Horde players bitch about queues when it's their own damn fault. Refreshing.

This.... When Alliance get no honor because Horde are not only kicking Alliance's ass but also defending all the sources of bonus honor, Alliance stop playing. The smart thing to do would give the alliance some hope, some reason to que.

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How is it their fault? Because horde stomp the alliance atm ??

Remember a couple weeks ago, when alliance won every AV? With threads on this very forum to make fun of horde like "AV, alliance won the war" etc.....

Guess what, the horde adapted. Now we win. How about the alliance doing the same and change strategy rather than threatening to stop queuing??

"Hurr if you dont let me win, I stop playing Durr"

Like fucking kids ...

You can dismiss it as childish, but its a fact, Horde ques will only get longer because alliance pugs are pointless at the moment

[Kralljin]

What is this "way to cheat the system" and join premades? do share

I think it has to do something with the Number of AV you're getting an invite.
You then can gauge whether it's a fresh AV BG or not, then decline invite and re queue or take the invite.

I glanced over it when i browsed through the classic reddit, but wasn't really interested because i'm Horde.

[Twdft]

What is this "way to cheat the system" and join premades? do share

You refresh the list of available AVs a couple of times and as soon as a new # spawns at the bottom of the list you join it.

Reasoning: premades have a countdown and click at the same time, forcing the system to open a new AV. They take a couple seconds to decide if enough of them got in to the same #AV, people start clicking accept. With good timing you can get the spot of the dude who took their time sipping tea before accepting.

[Kragragh]

I thought Alliance always had the benefit in classic A.V...

[Easyclassictopkeklel]

Wait. Is this really a whine thread by a member of the faction which can premade for AV because of instant queues? topkek lel

[Veggie50]

Sounds good, I'll just organize a meeting with the other 300k alliance players and we'll hash it all out. Lol.

Understandable argument, but I’ll counter with this; Horde manages to.

Im not saying it needs to be premade with clear leadership and a discord server. Just more than aimless chickens.

[Leefa]

Its funny, everything boils down to the choices the people who play horde has made since launch:
- Rolls horde even though they know its going to be overpopulated cause those sweet racials gives you a big advantage in pvp
- Decides to turtle, making games long and tedious
- Prevents alliance from making any honor at all, making pug bgs useless

The consequences?
- Alliance are forced to premade to rank while pug bgs deteriorate
- People stop queueing for pug bgs
- Horde queues get longer and longer
- Eventually, horde will meet 100% premade teams, while having queues that are 1-2+ hours long

Is this what ya'll want? You keep whining about alliance, premades and queues, but you fkin created these issues yourself in the first place. And you wonder why your queues are getting longer? The core of the issue is and always will be the horde players - anything that happens after is simply a result of the choices you made.

[Amaterasu65]

Its funny, everything boils down to the choices the people who play horde has made since launch:
- Rolls horde even though they know its going to be overpopulated cause those sweet racials gives you a big advantage in pvp
- Decides to turtle, making games long and tedious
- Prevents alliance from making any honor at all, making pug bgs useless

The consequences?
- Alliance are forced to premade to rank while pug bgs deteriorate
- People stop queueing for pug bgs
- Horde queues get longer and longer
- Eventually, horde will meet 100% premade teams, while having queues that are 1-2+ hours long

Is this what ya'll want? You keep whining about alliance, premades and queues, but you fkin created these issues yourself in the first place. And you wonder why your queues are getting longer? The core of the issue is and always will be the horde players - anything that happens after is simply a result of the choices you made.

Yeah let them qq and suffer now. They brought this on themselves. The Alliance adapted in order to fix the issues they were facing. Let the Hordies get long queues now, since they wanted to be Horde that much.

[Daymanmb]

What is this "way to cheat the system" and join premades? do share

Its not exactly a cheat and its not fool proof, but it works and if it doesnt, youre no worse off. Essentially you ditch 'join first avilable', scroll to the bottom and wait for a new game to pop up and queue that specifically. The newest AVs are always the last on the list. Premades queue in the hopes of juking the system into creating a new game for them and this is a way of letting you piggyback into one of their games.

[Shalaator]

So rather than expect Alliance players to improve and be more strategic, you actually expect Blizz to modify the Classic version of AV to cater to inevitably AFK/inept players? All based on your uninformed assumption that the game cannot be sustained as is? What?

Am I reading this right?

Classic is what it is. It does not need to changed, it does not need to be Classic+'d, the only reason Classic servers exist at all is because millions of people love that version of the game and clamored for it. So the idea that Blizz should make changes to Classic PvP systems because of your personal experience with bad AVs is almost explosively laughable.

Nah, just give us AV1.0, the original. That will force Alliance to play it correctly.

[Kralljin]

Is this what ya'll want? You keep whining about alliance, premades and queues, but you fkin created these issues yourself in the first place. And you wonder why your queues are getting longer? The core of the issue is and always will be the horde players - anything that happens after is simply a result of the choices you made.

I really have no idea why some people feel the need to put on some "smack talk" for this issue.

1. I've explained this above, queue times aren't an issue for Horde players that want to rank up, because the queues affect everybody, if i have an hour long queue, i simply do something else during that time while sometimes looking at the screen and not getting auto logged out.

2. At this point, Horde only loses to competent Pre mades, Horde wins against terrible ones because they don't know how to rush properly and get wiped on Drek or even beforehand, then Horde turtles hard to make their lives as miserable as possible.
A 30min+ match is not horrible for Horde players but terrible for Alliance players, i even had a Pre made that flat out rage quitted and left the BG after their 2nd attempt at rushing Drek failed.

3.Horde has no problems with pre mades and queues, Alliance has, they're the ones who need to jump through loops to join a pre made in order to win some games, stay competitive in terms of honor gain while also playing AV the entire time.


Like seriously, your attempt to make Horde players feel "bad" is rather hilarious, considering that ranking as Horde is far more relaxing than as Alliance.

Oh and by the way, the longer the queue times get, the more likely it is that the Hardcore rankers move back to World PvP, which mainly comes at the detriment of Alliance (again).

[Nathasil]

I really have no idea why some people feel the need to put on some "smack talk" for this issue.

1. I've explained this above, queue times aren't an issue for Horde players that want to rank up, because the queues affect everybody, if i have an hour long queue, i simply do something else during that time while sometimes looking at the screen and not getting auto logged out.

2. At this point, Horde only loses to competent Pre mades, Horde wins against terrible ones because they don't know how to rush properly and get wiped on Drek or even beforehand, then Horde turtles hard to make their lives as miserable as possible.
A 30min+ match is not horrible for Horde players but terrible for Alliance players, i even had a Pre made that flat out rage quitted and left the BG after their 2nd attempt at rushing Drek failed.

3.Horde has no problems with pre mades and queues, Alliance has, they're the ones who need to jump through loops to join a pre made in order to win some games, stay competitive in terms of honor gain while also playing AV the entire time.


Like seriously, your attempt to make Horde players feel "bad" is rather hilarious, considering that ranking as Horde is far more relaxing than as Alliance.

Oh and by the way, the longer the queue times get, the more likely it is that the Hardcore rankers move back to World PvP, which mainly comes at the detriment of Alliance (again).

And you believe that all of which you just stated is a healthy state for a game with 2 factions that relies on both factions doing the exact same content for there to be any PvP at all?
Would you agree that it is EXTREMELY more likely that Alliance players fed up with this situation will either quit or reroll Horde before there is any major change in how "the factions generally" approach this content?
If yes, what is your conclusion how this situation will develop further over the next 3-6 months?

Edit:
I agree with your observations, by the way. The only point i would add to them is that the most miserable experience you can possibly have in Classic right now is that of an Alliance player who is not part of a premade for whatever reason, because those players will generally start a match with half a team and have all the downsides of a premade (rush getting blocked etc) without any of the upsides.