Mythic is too tight, guilds are dying

[M00nty]

How many pulls do you have on Azshara that you are still working on p3? Even raiding 2 nights a week, you should be much further ahead, unless you didn't start raiding together until a month or two into the tier?

Let me quote myself:

"Our problems this tier were roster issues, pretty sizeable skill disparity within our roster and Orgozoa rekills.
We are one of the very few guilds, that only ever used 2 tanks (brw / bdk) and 4 healers on Orgozoa, which makes the fight a fkng nailbiter every time you have to kill her on farm, because every small mistake made by one of your tanks is going to wipe you. This issue got exaggerated by the roster issues & the skill disparity if for whatever reason, more than a few key players couldn't make it to the raid. That's the reason, why we are where we are, while having a decent pullcount to first kill ratio.

Edit:
Don't get me wrong, I'm perfectly fine with not getting CE. (A kill is just unrealistic at this point, if you've got 2ish weeks left and you're still progressing p3 & havn't even seen p4)"

We're about 70 pulls into Azshara. (We took a two weeks christmas break. We're going to raid again on Sunday)

[Celestraza]

So I just read through a 8.3 guide. Ye this grind is not for me.

From what I can tell you need to not only grind a lot of AP (again). You also need to grind a new currency in the visions (otherwise ur cloak and corruption resistance falls behind), grind new essences, grind corrupted gear with certain stats and spam M+ 15 because it awards loot superior to HC and only 10 ilvls behind mythic raid and is the most reliable and spammy way to boost your current ilvl to do mythic content.

I honestly doubt anyone in this thread claims they can keep up with just raid logging.

[Hctaz]

Weapon DPS=13.32 Critical Strike=5.36 Versatility=5.16 Haste=4.38 Mastery=3.29 Off Hand Weapon DPS=3.15 Agility=2.88

I didnt even optimize my sim and these are my stat weights, like i said, clueless lmao, nice one truth bearer, here raidbots link https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/repo...TqQ9Lckj264kiw

But remember guys DHs are...


VeRy DePeNdEnT oN pRiMaRy StAt BrUh.

Right... because raw stat weights tell the WHOLE picture.

You ever stop to look and see what actually HAPPENS when you increase the item level of gear?

Let's walk you through this example shall we?

Cultured Pearl Armbands ilvl 415
168 Armor
+245 [Agility or Intellect]
+430 Stamina
+99 Critical Strike
+55 Mastery

Cultured Pearl Armbands ilvl 430
188 Armor
+281 [Agility or Intellect]
+504 Stamina
+105 Critical Strike
+58 Mastery

Comparing these two pieces of gear you gain 36 agility, 6 crit and 3 mastery. Using your stat weights you provided from your sim shows that you would gain 103.68 DPS from agility, 32.16 dps from crit, and 9.87 DPS from mastery.

So yeah. Agility is the stat that is going to increase your DPS more than anything else.

Funny how you're telling me I'm wrong but you fail completely to understand how gear actually works in retail.

[asil]

Considering you have to do this every tier, it's just annoying, period.
And that also depends on your what sort of raid you're in, if you intend to clear early, having a higher Neck is obviously a lot more difficult.

Because this is the point, you need to do the same old shit each patch and something new on top of that.



Considering you there were like ~4 pieces of Benthic you had to upgrade to 425, which costs around 200 Manapearls each, i'd say that is a grind.

Ignoring the lottery you had to jump through in the first place to get the right pieces.



That is such a non argument, because 70 doesn't even offer a power boost, 65 is the last relevant level.
And that length of that grind entirely depends on when you intend to reach it, if you have no issues in waiting months for the bonus, it's super easy.
If you want it earlier however, you had to grind it out.

I also didn't grind any AP on my alt and he got 70 in freaking December, so yeah, bit "behind" schedule.

A) doing 10-15mins of daily quests a day is not a grind.

B) I got 65 fairly quickly with little to no grinding as well.

At this point it seems you're either bad at the game or simply do not want to play the game and are claiming easy/quick stuff in the game is actually somehow a grind.

Unless you are raiding at a bleeding-edge level in this game you are not required to "grind" anything.

[Kralljin]

A) doing 10-15mins of daily quests a day is not a grind.

Doing all world quests that award AP doesn't take 10-15min, let alone in the pre flying enviroment of 8.0 and 8.1.
Ignoring that there is absolutely 0 enjoyment in doing something everyday you just don't like.

B) I got 65 fairly quickly with little to no grinding as well.

"fairly quickly"
"little to no grinding"

I told you, i didn't grind at all besides the AP from the weekly farm raid on my alt and got in december.

At this point it seems you're either bad at the game

Doing world quests has nothing to do with skill, so that's moot anyway.

claiming easy/quick stuff in the game is actually somehow a grind.

If i had issues with grinding, i wouldn't play classic.

[asil]

it would be really funny if we put you on a timer from the time you log into the game to finish and the shit ended up actually taking an hour or at least 40 minutes to do



is anyone supposed to be insulted by this?

YOU ARE SO BAD AT COLLECTING BEAR ASSES

GIT GUD U NON BEAR ASS LOVING NOOB NOOB

like lmao is this guy serious?? i mean fuck dude you really caught me out here. i'm worst bear ass collector i just can't find the SINGLE fuck it takes to complete with all these ass collecting CHADS T____________T ams such bad at gaem

ppl just have shit they'd rather be doing with their time than completing a gatekeeping triathlon

You think doing 3 daily quests is an hour?

- - - Updated - - -

Doing all world quests that award AP doesn't take 10-15min, let alone in the pre flying enviroment of 8.0 and 8.1.
Ignoring that there is absolutely 0 enjoyment in doing something everyday you just don't like.



"fairly quickly"
"little to no grinding"

I told you, i didn't grind at all besides the AP from the weekly farm raid on my alt and got in december.



Doing world quests has nothing to do with skill, so that's moot anyway.



If i had issues with grinding, i wouldn't play classic.

At no point in this xpac have I done "all world quests" for AP. Not fucking once and I've always had a neck level that was perfectly fine for where my guild was - top 200.

If you don't want to do it, then don't do it. But it is not a large time investment, it isn't even close to a large time investment. If you want to raid at the highest level you're going to have to put at least some effort in.

[Kralljin]

If you don't want to do it, then don't do it. But it is not a large time investment, it isn't even close to a large time investment.

I'm not here to count every minute that i've spent on AP grind but my biggest issue is that's a constantly recurring thing.
If i had to drop a ton of time into the AP grind then be done for the rest of the expansion, i wouldn't give a shit about it.

But the problem is that it keeps coming back, every new patch, every new character you level.
Then you have to jump through the same trivial content every day that you didn't like doing in the first place.

If you want to raid at the highest level you're going to have to put at least some effort in.

Yes, because it's only the top percentage not liking AP Grind.
Same shit is if even i level an alt, not for raiding but for myself, then i think i about doing all this AP nonsense again and just go "fuck no".

Face it, the AP grind sucks, people don't like, the respone at Blizzcon spoke volumes about it.

[Krille]

So I just read through a 8.3 guide. Ye this grind is not for me.

From what I can tell you need to not only grind a lot of AP (again). You also need to grind a new currency in the visions (otherwise ur cloak and corruption resistance falls behind), grind new essences, grind corrupted gear with certain stats and spam M+ 15 because it awards loot superior to HC and only 10 ilvls behind mythic raid and is the most reliable and spammy way to boost your current ilvl to do mythic content.

I honestly doubt anyone in this thread claims they can keep up with just raid logging.

But do you think you will have to do all that? Just to raid? Nope. Yea there's stuff to do and things to max out, doesnt mean its absolutely necessary to raid mythic.

[Frozenbro]

Right... because raw stat weights tell the WHOLE picture.

You ever stop to look and see what actually HAPPENS when you increase the item level of gear?

Let's walk you through this example shall we?

Cultured Pearl Armbands ilvl 415
168 Armor
+245 [Agility or Intellect]
+430 Stamina
+99 Critical Strike
+55 Mastery

Cultured Pearl Armbands ilvl 430
188 Armor
+281 [Agility or Intellect]
+504 Stamina
+105 Critical Strike
+58 Mastery

Comparing these two pieces of gear you gain 36 agility, 6 crit and 3 mastery. Using your stat weights you provided from your sim shows that you would gain 103.68 DPS from agility, 32.16 dps from crit, and 9.87 DPS from mastery.

So yeah. Agility is the stat that is going to increase your DPS more than anything else.

Funny how you're telling me I'm wrong but you fail completely to understand how gear actually works in retail.

blablabla im dumb i try to sound smart https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/repo...4nDU2vMkQKKghd 455 haste mastery is a dps loss over my 10 less ilvl crit vers pants, i repeat, CLUELESS, so just stfu, all your math just so you could be proven even more wrong, how stupid and stubborn can someone be lmao, and in case you wanna change the subject to fit your narrative, here, ill quote you

You're going to have to show me some specific examples then, because stat weighting for Havoc DH shows them to be very dependent on primary stat

Thats your specific example, now leave this thread or change the subject so you stop showing your lack of IQ in this matter.

- - - Updated - - -

is anyone supposed to be insulted by this?

YOU ARE SO BAD AT COLLECTING BEAR ASSES

GIT GUD U NON BEAR ASS LOVING NOOB NOOB

The fact that you couldnt understand what he meant is more funny actually, he meant that most of the time the people complaining about the grind are terrible at the game cause thats their scapegoat, ive yet to see some1 complaining about it that isnt awful at the game.

[Drefan]

This is definitely a you thing, the obsession with having a bis list, just go to classic already, i got my CE months ago and havent grinded gear in ages, ofc i dont have my bis, but you see me crying? nope cause i understand that gear is just a means to an end, if i was like you people would ask me "why are you still grinding gear? you already got your CE" and i would be like you "CAUSE I DONT HAVE MY BIS BRUH I NEED EVERYTHING TITANFORGED THE GRIND IS TOO MUCH KILL ME", see how stupid that sounds? thats all of you, oh wait, i forgot that people feel the need to grind to compensate their lack of skill then use this as scapegoat in these threads.

You're completely missing the point but then again maybe you've not raided at the top level and you're unable to comprehend what I'm saying.
The point I'm making is that these systems that have been implemented to keep us interesting also puts you in an awkward spot if you want to min max your main for the upcoming tier.

Before you could reach a certain point and be done, you can't really do that these days or at least to the same degree. Is this a good change? Some believe so and others do not. You don't think there are "bis" lists these days? Or certain items just must have at all costs? You little delusional goblin...

[KaPe]

it would be really funny if we put you on a timer from the time you log into the game to finish and the shit ended up actually taking an hour or at least 40 minutes to do

They'd just move the goalposts. "Well, it might have been a *little* longer in the beginning". Or maybe "I don't count the travel time, since I alt-tab during that". Or "well, it takes few minutes for the quest mobs to respawn, but it doesn't *really* count." Or that one time when they got ganked and lost even more time. Nope, it was exactly 15 minutes - if we ignore everything that took longer.

[Krille]

TRUEEEEE haha

I mean the fact of the matter here is that it's bot content. So the whole thing is a waste of time because you are spending 100% of your time doing something that you do not want to do and essentially grind out a glorified all-access backstage pass for raiding.

it's just a garbage design.

FFXIV has Relics, which are basically raid tier equivalent weapons that are like Legendary grinding in WoW. These items are slightly weaker than the raid items or on par, may have better itemization... But they are in no way MANDATORY for raiding.

And uh... I'm gonna be honest lol I'm gonna play that game or classic long before I ever come back to retail because that's the way it should be. I bought Legion and barely played it and I bought BFA and barely played it. I don't think I'm even going to look into Shadowlands at all. 90% of the fun in WoW was raiding and if they want to keep raiders, like actual raiders from playing their game by gatekeeping them with casualcore design philosophy, I guess that's their problem.

Grinding is not mandatory for raiding either, I don't understand who told you that. There is stuff to better your character, but its in no way mandatory to raid. Lets just ignore everyone in here that's actually raiding in the current game and achieving CE every tier. I'm sure the people that can't even get CE know what they talk about (hint: they probably "grind" and still can't finish the raids).

Pathetic mindset, go play your weeb shit game sir.

[asil]

They'd just move the goalposts. "Well, it might have been a *little* longer in the beginning". Or maybe "I don't count the travel time, since I alt-tab during that". Or "well, it takes few minutes for the quest mobs to respawn, but it doesn't *really* count." Or that one time when they got ganked and lost even more time. Nope, it was exactly 15 minutes - if we ignore everything that took longer.

The fact you people think it takes longer than 15 minutes to do naz dailies is evidence you don't even play the game.

- - - Updated - - -

Grinding is not mandatory for raiding either, I don't understand who told you that. There is stuff to better your character, but its in no way mandatory to raid. Lets just ignore everyone in here that's actually raiding in the current game and achieving CE every tier. I'm sure the people that can't even get CE know what they talk about (hint: they probably "grind" and still can't finish the raids).

Pathetic mindset, go play your weeb shit game sir.

Yeah, you're gated from the game because you have to play for more than an hour a week for sure.

[Krille]

The fact you people think it takes longer than 15 minutes to do naz dailies is evidence you don't even play the game.

- - - Updated - - -



Yeah, you're gated from the game because you have to play for more than an hour a week for sure.

I think theres a lot of people in this thread that havent played the game recently. It has become this false narrative echo chamber that the grind is whats killing the game or excluding people from raiding.

8.2 introduced essences, which was FUN to get because they were also fun to use. Thats about the only thing you had to play the game to get. AP is the biggest scapegoat in this game, neck level doesnt matter unless you're pushing high ranks.

Can these low tier sub 2500 several days a week raiders just realize they are not reaching higher because they are bad at the game. Grasp the harsh truth, good news is that you can get better if you care, just like in any game ever. But if you're going to not play the game and then complain about not finishing raid tiers you can and should probably just rip the bandaid and quit.

[Krille]

Yeah, and you don't need a job or to breathe to live, either.

Thank you for your amazing insight.

I have finished every tier since i started again in EN early legion (after a 5 year break). We ended at rank 150 this tier. We raid 3 days a week for a total of 10 hours, and i only play the game 30 minutes before raid in which i do any emissary i have, buy consumables and afk outside the raid. I might also stick around after either thursday or sunday raid for an extra 30 mins to get the weekly m+ done.

Since september, we raid once a week in which we full clear the raid. I havent done Island cap since early August, i dont do emissaries anymore, no weekly m+ and i dont play the game outside raids. But yes, lets all claim theres grind in the game, so you plebs can feel better about yourselves.

Meanwhile Bobby who can't finish the tier, even after 6-7 months and several nerfs. Cries about "the grind" and how the difficulty curve is to steep but will do fuckall to better himself or his raiders.

Yuck!

[Krille]

You ever heard of Macabre? vodka? Indestructible?

Sit down lmao.

I haven't played this dogshit game since BRF.

Achieving top 100 ranks while playing 4-5 days a week, grats bro. I know you dont play the game, you literally said so 1-2 posts ago. But that makes your grind remarks even more macabre, lay off the vodka you indestructible weeb incel.
Infracted;

[Video Games]

But that makes your grind remarks even more macabre, lay off the vodka you indestructible weeb incel.

[Krille]

Hey man, you wanted to whip your dick out. Don't cry now because you got a shriveled up little vienna sausage.

You should have known better than to even try to start some shit. Clout chasing cuck.

Not even impressed nor rattled one bit. The guys above us that raid 4-5 days are borderline nolife losers that were too bad at the game to actually compete so they raid a lot to make up for it.

I raid 50% of what they do, 0 splitruns, 0 alts and kill the end boss a week or two after they do. Thats the real bracket.

[JustForThisThread]

Not even impressed nor rattled one bit. The guys above us that raid 4-5 days are borderline nolife losers that were too bad at the game to actually compete so they raid a lot to make up for it.

I raid 50% of what they do, 0 splitruns, 0 alts and kill the end boss a week or two after they do. Thats the real bracket.

Curious as to what guild? You say you kill the boss a week or two after the no life guilds (previously the only 4 night guild mentioned was vodka, the other two being 3 nights), and in a previous post say your guild moved up to top 150ish (I'm going to assume world ranking?). Vodka killed Azshara 8/23, 150 killed it 9/23, four weeks later. BOD vodka cleared on 2/26, 150 killed it 3/20 (four resets later).

Just generally curious why you never link logs instead of saying, "they are garbage, im better".

[kaminaris]

Yeah well the real problem is that people are leaving the game because 6 months of progress is just too much. We have merged guild 3 times during this raid and only like 2 people went somewhere else while rest of them simply stopped playing.

And I don't blame them. Right now we have much better rooster than I had in siege of orgrimmar, yet we still cleared it in 3-4 months.
We barely made it with cutting edge in BoD, this time we wont make it probably.

So 4 months to clear 13 boss raid vs 6 months to not clear 8 boss raid with better squad (Yes I am positive we have better skilled people than we had before).

Difference is about 3.25 boss per month previously vs 1.16 boss per month now.

BoD was about 5 months so ratio was 1.8 boss per month. Of course we couldn't make it with Crucible of storms.

Just for the record:
T20 4 months = 2.25 boss per month
T18 4 months = 3.25 boss per month
T17 3 months = 2.5 boss per month