BWL/AQ/Naxx will be demolished with ease.

[Grimreaper]

Because players got better, and characters had bigger toolkits

Players never get better.

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The players whom are demolishing classic raids currently are doing so not because they are better players than they were 15 years ago, but because they have already cleared said content hundreds of times already.

[OriginalName]

Players never get better.

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The players whom are demolishing classic raids currently are doing so not because they are better players than they were 15 years ago, but because they have already cleared said content hundreds of times already.

This doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

[Grimreaper]

This doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

If you think you are a better player today than you were in vanilla, i got bad news for you...

[Loeko]

I actually probably came close to dying more leveling from 110 to 120 at the start of BFA than I ever did in classic.

A few days earlier and you were winning the funniest MMO Champ comment of 2019. But you set the bar really high for 2020. This year is gonna be fun

[OriginalName]

If you think you are a better player today than you were in vanilla, i got bad news for you...

How do you even quantify something like this?

[Redroniksre]

If you think you are a better player today than you were in vanilla, i got bad news for you...

People are definitely better now than back then, also have better internet. For example my tank friend used to raid with a bear claw fist weapon all because his name had bear in it. People also explored more with builds, while now it is easy one stop shop to get all the best.

[Equoowe]

Players never get better.

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The players whom are demolishing classic raids currently are doing so not because they are better players than they were 15 years ago, but because they have already cleared said content hundreds of times already.

Just look at any esport and say players aren't better, compare the best at the start of SC2 to now, even in WoW you can compare the best PvPers from Vanilla and TBC and it's really easy to see how much better people are now.

If you think you are a better player today than you were in vanilla, i got bad news for you...

??? I clicked everything outside of my main damage spells in Vanilla just like a lot of people did, I'm 1000x better now.

[TJ]

That's great! Personally I have more fun in retail. Fortunately it's not a competition. It's a good thing that there is something for every taste

Definitely, everyone's taste is different and the more things that cater to that, the better!

[Echocho]

How many times did you die in Classic 1-60?
How many times did you die in Retail 1-120?

How many times did you wipe on mythic G'huun? How many times did you wipe on Ragnaros?

[EasyE]

People with down-syndrome usually have more fun on simple stuff so this isn't anything new.

[arkanon]

If you think you are a better player today than you were in vanilla, i got bad news for you...

Easily the dumbest comment on this forum in months. Do any activity frequently for 10-15 years, for many people 10+ hours a week, and you will greatly improve.

[Annelie]

Vanilla is harder than retail, when it comes to leveling. Raids where never hard. People did just not optimize the gear etc like they do now. And some other changes, but i still expect naxx to go down within an hour or two of release. I wish they would put in pre-nerf C'thun just to see the "unbeatable " boss go down like a little ****whore offred 5 dollars for some suki suki.
But they wont, just look at AV, they took the latest and worst version just because.

I remember when i did all the raids back then, +spell gear was almost nowhere to be found on raid gear except for some weapons, trinkets and set bonuses (more or less anyway), most of the raid in Naxx was in MC/ZG/AQ20/BWL/AQ40 gear mix. It was a fun time. But that time is gone now.

[Grimreaper]

People are definitely better now than back then, also have better internet. For example my tank friend used to raid with a bear claw fist weapon all because his name had bear in it. People also explored more with builds, while now it is easy one stop shop to get all the best.

Chances are your friend is still a bad player.

[relaxok]

Sure, but if you only raid 6 hours a week, if you're taking 2-3 hours clearing MC now (2 hours is the average across the board on warcraftlogs), you're not gonna be able to do clears on; MC, BWL, ZG, AQ in your incredibly narrow schedule that leaves no room for error, question is wether you will even be able to clear MC + BWL if you take 2 hours on MC now.

A lot of items in MC, ZG, BWL are relevant through the entire game, people will leave your casual guild if they don't get to clear for their choker, toep, bre, thunderfury, sulfuras etc etc

As I said, before is that Classic raiding isn't hard, but neither is retail raiding, it's infinitely more punishing to fail in classic than retail though.

I disagree. Retail Mythic raids are ACTUALLY genuinely hard.

[Grimreaper]

Just look at any esport and say players aren't better, compare the best at the start of SC2 to now, even in WoW you can compare the best PvPers from Vanilla and TBC and it's really easy to see how much better people are now.

You are confusing experience with skill. Your player skill isnt quantified by your knowledge of the game, but by the rate at wich you aquire it and your ability to put it into action. There isnt more skilled players today, there is just a larger focus on performing better.

??? I clicked everything outside of my main damage spells in Vanilla just like a lot of people did, I'm 1000x better now.

So? You dont need a single keybind to be completly skill-capped at classic. It's way too a simple game. The skill-cap ceiling is just that low. Easy? no. Simple? yes.

I still havent seen any players who are more skilled today than the players in my average guild way back then. Even looking at the top guilds that downed Rag week one.

[Frozenbro]

I still havent seen any players who are more skilled today than the players in my average guild way back then. Even looking at the top guilds that downed Rag week one.

Its hard to compare player skill just like that, at the same time its hard to compare classic and retail difficulty cause 1 is new while the other isnt, you can just compare mechanics, and we know what version comes up on top, then with this same logic you can compare a player who killed M Azshara and a player who killed Rag or w/e classic boss pre Naxx, you already know whos better.

[Altami]

You are confusing experience with skill. Your player skill isnt quantified by your knowledge of the game, but by the rate at wich you aquire it and your ability to put it into action. There isnt more skilled players today, there is just a larger focus on performing better.


So? You dont need a single keybind to be completly skill-capped at classic. It's way too a simple game. The skill-cap ceiling is just that low. Easy? no. Simple? yes.

I still havent seen any players who are more skilled today than the players in my average guild way back then. Even looking at the top guilds that downed Rag week one.

Your ability to put your knowledge into action is usually greatly improved by your experience though.

Are you seriously saying you're not more skilled now than you were 15 years ago? I am a great deal more skilled now than I was back then, for sure. I am better at almost everything actually in my life. Except endurance things, but that's just age.

[Spl4sh3r]

What difference does it make?

You mean people have learned in 15 years how to use pots, wizard oil, flasks, potions, stack buffs and itemize vs showing up in greens and yelling “PULL!”?

So bosses don’t have 5 phases, you don’t need players to nuke adds or set up stacks/spread out etc. SO WHAT?

You’re basically complaining that people want to play a game they enjoy in an version/era they loved or never got to see?

That isn't the biggest reason why it is different in Classic. The biggest is that with the high patch number, bosses have been nerfed (ie fixed) too much to compare it to Vanilla.

[OriginalName]

I disagree. Retail Mythic raids are ACTUALLY genuinely hard.

In what context? Is Uldir mythic still hard in retail, despite being several raids out of date, now?

That's exactly what MC through AQ is in classic.

[Elias01]

I disagree. Retail Mythic raids are ACTUALLY genuinely hard.

Thing is mythic raidin on retail is optional which means it isnt relevant for most players which means it can be difficulty like crazy but it doesnt matter becouse its easy mods is what bring diffuclty of retail down. In classic you clear content or you dont. There is no easy mod you can swap to and press button to clear MC. Thats why classic is percieved harder. Remove LFR, normal and heroic and you can say retail is harder. And even with it 99% of retail content can be solo facerolled anyway.

Only thing what is harder on retail is current mythic raid and mythic+. Old raids even in current expansion on mythic are at this stage joke thanks to giant power creep. So you have 1 raid diffuclty what nobady cares about and 2-3 difficulty levels in mythic + which also nobady cares about and are sold by bossters anyway what are actualy hard but rest of wow content on retail is joke.