Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[cubby]

And another GOP rep tosses in the towel; GOP Rep. Phil Roe won't seek reelection

Rep. Phil Roe (R-Tenn.) announced Friday that he will not seek reelection, making the six-term lawmaker the latest House Republican to head for the doors.
"After prayerful consideration, I have decided to retire at the end of the 116th Congress," Roe said in a statement.
He is one of more than two dozen House GOP lawmakers to say they have chosen not to seek another term.

That number has to be approaching 30 by now. It's so far beyond norms....

[Twdft]

Here's the thing, it had been a long long long running policy for Fox News to specifically hire media personalities as reporters with the consideration that they were blonde, and had the look that Fox core demographics would want to look up her skirt.

Just like bombshell and all that other bullshit this was NOT a secret. So considering that While Trump is a sexist POS she was a willing part of the machine that created him.

Ahh the old victim blaming because of her looks. Disgustang.

That number has to be approaching 30 by now. It's so far beyond norms....

The man is 74, I hope at this age I have forgotten everything about my job and chill somewhere ;-)

[cubby]

The man is 74, I hope at this age I have forgotten everything about my job and chill somewhere ;-)

Of course normal attrition will be natural. The point is that over two dozen GOP House and Senate members are not seeking reelection. Which is WAY above the norms.

[DarkTZeratul]

That number has to be approaching 30 by now. It's so far beyond norms....

According to PBS just now, Roe is number 26.

[Xyonai]

I think this was posted in the thread on the attack itself, but I also think it bares posting here too:

In the five days prior to launching a strike that killed Iran’s most important military leader, Donald Trump roamed the halls of Mar-a-Lago, his private resort in Florida, and started dropping hints to close associates and club-goers that something huge was coming.

Which, if my grade school level math is correct, is two days before the actual Embassy attack that this was an alleged retaliation of. So what the fuck?

[Edge-]

I think this was posted in the thread on the attack itself, but I also think it bares posting here too:

In the five days prior to launching a strike that killed Iran’s most important military leader, Donald Trump roamed the halls of Mar-a-Lago, his private resort in Florida, and started dropping hints to close associates and club-goers that something huge was coming.

Which, if my grade school level math is correct, is two days before the actual Embassy attack that this was an alleged retaliation of. So what the fuck?

Posted about this in the other thread.

He could be bothered to tell Congress, other than Lindsey Graham because I guess he happened to be in shouting distance as he was a Mar a Lago as well, but he could be bothered to hint at a military action to civilian members of his club who pay him money for their membership.

If Republicans ever complain about Hillary's email security handling again I'm going to fucking lose my mind. This is part of a continuing pattern of Trump behaving recklessly with classified information and materials.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Are you really blaming her for getting a job?

I am not blaming her for anything, I am saying she was well aware of the kinds of people she helped to prop up, so it should be no surprise it turned out as it did. The only thing she is concerned with is how it can profit her now.

- - - Updated - - -

Ahh the old victim blaming because of her looks. Disgustang.

Yeah there is no excuse.

[Orbitus]

Why comment on something you are clearly out of the loop about? He's referring to a comment trump made long ago suggesting that he can do whatever he wants since he's a big time celebrity such as grabbing women by the pussy without consequences.

What about that screams "two adults doing consentual things in their bedroom?

Nevermind the literal countless allegations from various women claiming sexual harassment/assault against Donny over the years

Yep, including his first wife that accused Trump of rape, and only dropped it to get more money in the divorce settlement. And Trump Jr, stopped talking to his father for a year before he realized that he was cut off from daddy war bucks.

[omerome]

I think this was posted in the thread on the attack itself, but I also think it bares posting here too:

In the five days prior to launching a strike that killed Iran’s most important military leader, Donald Trump roamed the halls of Mar-a-Lago, his private resort in Florida, and started dropping hints to close associates and club-goers that something huge was coming.

Which, if my grade school level math is correct, is two days before the actual Embassy attack that this was an alleged retaliation of. So what the fuck?

I wonder if we can perhaps get some of these folks for potential insider trading if they did a massive buy or sell-off in the stock market because of the news.

[tumppu]

Trump makes 90 false claims during final two weeks of 2019

Article goes into each lie told by Trump.

Oh wait, will this post get me a double infraction for calling out a liar and talking shit about Trump?! :O

Well, you're using cnn as a source, so they will just go with "fake news" and leave it at that. Tbh, after multiple people called him out of that one particular infraction, the "mod who shall not be named" - thwart, has been refreshingly quiet. Probably off celebrating russian new year?

[tumppu]

Rep Matt Gaetz praises Trump as "the first president to end one of these forever wars and not start one"

Trump totally didn't just send more troops out there

That aged really well. Now, were they going to protect more oil wells, or something else?

[Captain N]

Well, you're using cnn as a source, so they will just go with "fake news" and leave it at that. Tbh, after multiple people called him out of that one particular infraction, the "mod who shall not be named" - thwart, has been refreshingly quiet. Probably off celebrating russian new year?

You must have missed this thread.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...d-last-October

But I can't say anymore because pointing out intentional falsehoods is now deemed a rule violation.

[Breccia]

The University of Chicago, who narrowly edges out Trump in the Nobel Prize category by the score of eleventy bazillion to zero, has published a study -- based around fifty existing real-life examples -- on whether or not border walls work.

No

Okay, okay, the real study is here. Here's a brief snippet tho.

Published in the journal International Organization, Poast produced his latest study in partnership with political scientist David Carter of Washington University in St. Louis. Using economic models, the two scholars examined how physical walls reduce trade between neighboring countries—discovering reductions in median imports and exports of as much as 31 percent.

Previous research has found that in most instances, a wealthier state constructs a wall to slow or block the flow of goods and people from a poorer neighbor. Using data from 1800 to 2014, an earlier study from Poast and Carter observed that economic disparities between two states were a stronger predictor for wall-building than other factors including fear of attack.

They build on that research in their new paper, investigating whether border walls actually impacted global trade, or if the barriers served as mere symbols to appease domestic interests.

They found that although governments do not build walls to impede legal trade, the construction of physical barriers still reduces such traffic. That may occur because walls do not emerge out of a policy vacuum: A country that is concerned about border security also might increase inspection at legal ports of entry—a measure that would increase shipping times and costs.

In other words, Trump is intentionally trying to build hardware with the result of making trade with Mexico harder. By the way, has NAFTA 1.0.0.2 been signed yet?

[derpkitteh]

The University of Chicago, who narrowly edges out Trump in the Nobel Prize category by the score of eleventy bazillion to zero, has published a study -- based around fifty existing real-life examples -- on whether or not border walls work.



Okay, okay, the real study is here. Here's a brief snippet tho.



In other words, Trump is intentionally trying to build hardware with the result of making trade with Mexico harder. By the way, has NAFTA 1.0.0.2 been signed yet?

we've got over 2k years of evidence to the contrary.

the berlin wall, the great wall of china, hadrian's wall, whatever the wall in israel is called. basically every roman outpost had a wall, they built them all over the place. every mansion, every embassy, all of these have walls and they work.

what use is there in denying objective reality? does just the plain base reality of existence offend people?

the wall was never an amazing idea, just due to the cost. but denying reality that they DO work is just stupid. it was either hungary or poland put up a dumb fence and it cut illegal crossings by a huge percent. just a dumb fence, like you'd see at a baseball park.

[Thekri]

we've got over 2k years of evidence to the contrary.

the berlin wall, the great wall of china, hadrian's wall, whatever the wall in israel is called. basically every roman outpost had a wall, they built them all over the place. every mansion, every embassy, all of these have walls and they work.

what use is there in denying objective reality? does just the plain base reality of existence offend people?

the wall was never an amazing idea, just due to the cost. but denying reality that they DO work is just stupid. it was either hungary or poland put up a dumb fence and it cut illegal crossings by a huge percent. just a dumb fence, like you'd see at a baseball park.

This is a hilarious talking point. Implying that because walls are useful for some purposes, does not mean they must necessarily be useful for ALL purposes. That is silly.

Lets look at the examples you named. The Great Wall of China and Hadrian's Wall were intended to stop military invasions, not immigration. They were also both heavily garrisoned (Which is important to make any wall work, and Trump's wall doesn't include that), and both were SPECTACULARLY unsuccessful at their intended purpose. When the Mongols conquered China, they did not even not the existence of the Great Wall of China anywhere in their rather extensive records of the conquest. It was simply no obstacle at all. Even if they had been successful, which they were not, that would not have implied anything about the ability of an unmanned wall to stop immigrants, as opposed to armies.

Berlin Wall, huge difference in scale here, also manned by thousands of people over the span of a few miles. Intended to keep people in, not keep people out. Spectacularly failed at that purpose as well. Israeli wall, actually quite effective, but again much smaller, and supported by a massive number of people. It is a counter-terrorism wall, not an anti-immigrant wall.

Roman Outpost, Military Bases, Mansions, Embassies, etc. These have about as much in common with a border wall as they have with the walls in your house. They are closed compounds completely surrounded by walls, not thousands of miles of empty wall in a desert. Again, they are intended to stop criminals and attackers, not immigrants. How successful they are depends on how badly someone wants to get across them, any determined person usually does get through that wall.

To summarize, the effectiveness of a wall at completely unrelated tasks, such as stopping invasions or sieges, is not helpful to determining if it stops immigrants. No wall works without people patrolling it, or other security devices actively monitoring it anyway. This "argument" makes about as much sense as using a gun to defend yourself against cybercrime, it is a completely different problem then a gun is suited to handle. As has been noted dozens of times, this absurd idea that illegal immigration mostly consists of people running across the border is wrong. In overwhelming numbers they come through legal ports of entry and just overstay their visas. A wall will not solve that any more then your gun can detect a pishing email.

[Clone]

we've got over 2k years of evidence to the contrary.

the berlin wall, the great wall of china, hadrian's wall, whatever the wall in israel is called. basically every roman outpost had a wall, they built them all over the place. every mansion, every embassy, all of these have walls and they work.

what use is there in denying objective reality? does just the plain base reality of existence offend people?

the wall was never an amazing idea, just due to the cost. but denying reality that they DO work is just stupid. it was either hungary or poland put up a dumb fence and it cut illegal crossings by a huge percent. just a dumb fence, like you'd see at a baseball park.

They don't work, not even the Great Wall of China. It failed to stop one invasion, and its maintenance crippled China fiscally that it couldn't afford to stop another invasion. Raids often circumvented it too.

[Belize]

the berlin wall

Was barely 27 miles long, littered with landmines, over 300 guard towers with machine guns and people still go through.

the great wall of china

Was build on top of mountains (very different terrain) and also *laughs in Mongolian*

hadrian's wall

I'll just quote an article:

The limites of Rome were never expected to stop tribes from migrating or armies from invading, and while a frontier protected by a palisade or stone wall would help curb cattle-raiders and the incursions of other small groups,[18] the economic viability of constructing and keeping guarded a wall 72 miles (116 km) long along a sparsely populated border to stop small-scale raiding is dubious.

Oops.

basically every roman outpost had a wall, they built them all over the place. every mansion, every embassy, all of these have walls and they work.

Which is why every army carried these things called "Ladders". It's a now lost ancient roman technolo- oh wait no, we have the at Home Depot.

But hey.

what use is there in denying objective reality?

[Masark]

It amazes me that a particular someone can still be a mod.

Because the rest of the staff agree with them.

[starlord]

a lot of migrants also come by sea (and the trump admin hasn't been keen on funding the coast guard.)

[Kiri]

They don't work, not even the Great Wall of China. It failed to stop one invasion, and its maintenance crippled China fiscally that it couldn't afford to stop another invasion. Raids often circumvented it too.

And let's not forget that the Great Wall of China was notoriously porous for small warbands and groups of immigrants, especially in the more remote areas. Heck, all you really needed to do - and still would with a Trump wall - is to just go up and bribe some guards. The US border patrol already has enough issues with personell and hiring, without plopping a massive wall there for them to guard. Only takes one corrupt or even negligent guard to undermine the work of hundreds.