[Theory] Sylvanas is being controlled out of her own will by the Jailor

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

She didn't hesitate to save Varian's life which would've significally fueled the maw's power and as well as all the Horde and Alliance lives but when she became Warchief she slowly began to act different and then spiral out of control in BfA. We first notice her power when her eyes glow red for the first time and unleashes havoc upon her enemies with a banshee form we had not yet seen before. Sylvanas has been doing lots of OOC stuff what if the big plot twist of it all was her being controlled by the Jailor to cause as much death as possible and her "setting us all free" has a deeper meaning to it such as setting us all free from being used by the Jailor as she knows the champions of Azeroth can conquer the Legion, Alliance and Horde, so they can conquer death itself.

[Varodoc]

She saved Varian's life because she needed new allies in her long-term plan to become Warchief. Becoming Warchief was always her goal. With the entire military might of the Horde at her command, she was able to start the world war which greatly empowered herself and the Jailer. Thus saving Varian was ultimately done with a selfish goal in mind.

She's not mind-controlled. She's not even a pawn of the Jailer. They are partners who need each other.

Finally, she isn't acting different at all. Anyone who's surprised by the Burning of Teldrassil didn't pay attention to what she did to Gilneas. In Cataclysm.

"[...] and I will set us all free" has no deep meaning. Sylvanas was already shown as a nutjob who believes undeath is a higher state of existence and wanted to bestow that "gift" to the people of Stormwind. Thus, that line only shows that she wants to kill everyone so that everyone is "free from the shackles of mortality" (this is an actual line that she said in Before the Storm as well, if I am not mistaken). And, I mean, it's not like she repeatedly says in BfA that everyone will serve Death, and even said in the Loyalist cutscene that the Forsaken were naive fools for clinging to life and hope....

[Kisuke42]

I would hate it if it turned out like this "Sylvanas did alot of bad stuff but wait it wasn't her,she was controlled, she is actually one of the good guys, the real bad guy is xyz person"

IMO that a cheap exits to redeem a character in a story.

Yes, finding out that a character in a story is being controlled is a huge plot twist that can make a story really interesting but it has to be done correctly.

Its the same as time travel, it can make a story much more interesting, but some writers use it as a cheap exits once they write themselves into a corner.

[Langusta]

She saved Varian's life because she needed new allies in her long-term plan to become Warchief. Becoming Warchief was always her goal.

But in Before the storm she said in her inner monologue that she never wanted to be the Warchief and that she curses Vol'jin and ... nevermind, sometimes I forget I overestimate writers in their ability to remember their own story.

With the entire military might of the Horde at her command, she was able to start the world war which greatly empowered herself and the Jailer. Thus saving Varian was ultimately done with a selfish goal in mind.

Now, this is something I don't get. If more deaths means sending more souls to the Maw, which empowers her and Jailer, wouldn't be more easy let the Legion do the job and wipe out the life on Azeroth?

[Darknessvamp]

Yeah no Sylvanas is in control and the reason why she saved Varian wasn't related to Shadowlands in the slightest.

She saved Varian's life because she needed new allies in her long-term plan to become Warchief. Becoming Warchief was always her goal. With the entire military might of the Horde at her command, she was able to start the world war which greatly empowered herself and the Jailer. Thus saving Varian was ultimately done with a selfish goal in mind.

Absolutely not, Sylvanas never planned to be Warchief and they were even writing her as a reluctant leader in Legion before they decided to scrap all of that, drop focus on her in that expansion and set her up for Villain bating in BfA. In fact there's a major contradiction in your statement considering when she calls the retreat at the Broken Shore she doesn't take any interest in seeing how the Alliance are faring and escapes with the Horde Forces to save their losses without consideration for Varian or the other Alliance members survival apart from having signaled a retreat. In other words, saving Varian in the cg cinematic didn't have anything at all to do with her long term or future plans, especially as she doesn't attempt to ensure his survival later.

Now, this is something I don't get. If more deaths means sending more souls to the Maw, which empowers her and Jailer, wouldn't be more easy let the Legion do the job and wipe out the life on Azeroth?

Something, something Demons and Death don't mix or Sylvanas wanted to win by her own efforts or the Writers didn't think of this plot till halfway through BfA and didn't realise how much it contradicts a lot of past events by having stated it had started long ago retroactively.

[Sorshen]

Sylvanas is just retarded. Equipped with thick plot armor cause the writers are bad.

[Ielenia]

Now, this is something I don't get. If more deaths means sending more souls to the Maw, which empowers her and Jailer, wouldn't be more easy let the Legion do the job and wipe out the life on Azeroth?

No.

The Legion has soul engines that collect the souls of the dead and use them to power the Legion's machines. Basically, those the Legion kills don't go to afterlife, but instead have their souls consumed to power their war machines.

[Halyon]

I don't care if she is or isn't, she's on my chopping block, just waiting patiently for the green light to end her.

[Varodoc]

But in Before the storm she said in her inner monologue that she never wanted to be the Warchief and that she curses Vol'jin and ... nevermind, sometimes I forget I overestimate writers in their ability to remember their own story.


Now, this is something I don't get. If more deaths means sending more souls to the Maw, which empowers her and Jailer, wouldn't be more easy let the Legion do the job and wipe out the life on Azeroth?

That's the reason even if it is a retcon.

Also the Legion harvests souls en-masse to power their war machines.

[Powerogue]

Not convinced in the slightest. They made a point in BFA that everything evil she did traced back to feelings she's had towards life and hope since the day she was raised.

[Feanoro]

It's almost like the writers spewed out some crap that badly retcons everything from at least Wrath onward.

[Oneirophobia]

Fact of the matter is, blizzard doesn't plan out details. They do what D&D did with game of thrones and just pick large, exciting "rule of cool" events and then scramble to find ways to lead into those events.

This cannot possibly get anymore obvious with Sylvanas. They directly contradict things they've established in books that were supposed to set BFA up.

Sylvanas has been trying to grow the ranks of the Forsaken since Legion, as she's repeatedly told us and shown us in inner monologues in the books. Go click on her a few times, it's even in her voice lines for crying out out. By the end of BFA she reveals she's completely uninterested in the forsaken and couldn't give two shits.* With no set up or explanation whatsoever. Don't even get me started on "what joy is there in this curse?" being her core and central characterization since WCIII and they just up and ditched it with Z E R O development.

In the books she talks about how she basically hates Vol'jin for making her Warchief, we see her in the broken shore cinematic rescuing the Horde and then very plainly shocked that she's chosen as Warchief, starring at the throne in Orgrimmar for what appears to be hours while Vol'jin's body is removed.

However, by the end of BFA she's "conspired with the jailor"
to obtain Warchief (who she allegedly met when she died at icecrown but has never mentioned EVEN in her inner monologues or to nathanos when discussing her intentions!) so she can cause monumental death.

It's practically a given the writing process went like this:


A month into BFA

BlizzA: Hey let's do a Shadowlands expansion, haven't hit the death theme in a while

BlizzB: Yeah that might be good, how do you wanna set that up?

BlizzA: I dunno, which characters or zones have links to death

BlizzB: Uh that glacier place and that Sauron dude or whatever

BlizzC: Northrend and the lich king?

BlizzA: isn't that the place with the pandas? I think you mean icecrown

BlizzB: yeah icecrown, that one

BlizzC: there's a dead elf lady who players seem to do lots of porn and shit for, she's probably a better focus marketing wise

BlizzA: true, but lets tie in the lich king in one way or another just because that lich king expac they did a few years ago sold well

BlizzC: okay cool sounds like a plan, we'll get the interns to start drafting up some breadcrumbs to try to tie it into Legion and then we're good

BlizzB: BFA, Legion was the last expac lol

BlizzC: oh right lol

BlizzA: Are you sure?

BlizzB: yes, lol

BlizzC: alright let's meet again in a week or so and we'll fit whatever we've come up with together


It's so profoundly frustrating to have any interest at all in the plot when the characters have multiple personality disorder and their goals and motivations change monthly.

Can't wait for Baine to start eating human children to appease The Great Unclean One he met at a Starbucks 3 expacs ago that was conveniently never mentioned, foreshadowed, or explained.


*: By "giving a shit" I don't mean she cares about them, I mean they were viewed as necessary tools for her. She had, due to her deal with the Jailor, become powerful enough that she didn't need them anymore but at no point changed her established goal of raising all of Stormwind as undead. Until she did, seemingly at random and with no explanation. Did she ever need the Forsaken? Why update her voice lines for BFA talking about "I will expand the ranks of the Forsaken one way or another" if that wasn't going to central to your story? Or even relevant to it?

[Piamonte]

She didn't hesitate to save Varian's life which would've significally fueled the maw's power and as well as all the Horde and Alliance lives but when she became Warchief she slowly began to act different and then spiral out of control in BfA. We first notice her power when her eyes glow red for the first time and unleashes havoc upon her enemies with a banshee form we had not yet seen before. Sylvanas has been doing lots of OOC stuff what if the big plot twist of it all was her being controlled by the Jailor to cause as much death as possible and her "setting us all free" has a deeper meaning to it such as setting us all free from being used by the Jailor as she knows the champions of Azeroth can conquer the Legion, Alliance and Horde, so they can conquer death itself.

The devs already said that silvanas is not serving the jailor, she is doing her own thing.

- - - Updated - - -

Fact of the matter is, blizzard doesn't plan out details. They do what D&D did with game of thrones and just pick large, exciting "rule of cool" events and then scramble to find ways to lead into those events.

This cannot possibly get anymore obvious with Sylvanas. They directly contradict things they've established in books that were supposed to set BFA up.

Sylvanas has been trying to grow the ranks of the Forsaken since Legion, as she's repeatedly told us and shown us in inner monologues in the books. Go click on her a few times, it's even in her voice lines for crying out out. By the end of BFA she reveals she's completely uninterested in the forsaken and couldn't give two shits. With no set up or explanation whatsoever. Don't even get me started on "what joy is there in this curse?" being her core and central characterization since WCIII and they just up and ditched it with Z E R O development.

In the books she talks about how she basically hates Vol'jin for making her Warchief, we see her in the broken shore cinematic rescuing the Horde and then very plainly shocked that she's chosen as Warchief, starring at the throne in Orgrimmar for what appears to be hours while Vol'jin's body is removed.

However, by the end of BFA she's "conspired with the jailor"
to obtain Warchief (who she allegedly met when she died at icecrown but has never mentioned EVEN in her inner monologues or to nathanos when discussing her intentions!) so she can cause monumental death.

It's practically a given the writing process went like this:


A month into BFA

BlizzA: Hey let's do a Shadowlands expansion, haven't hit the death theme in a while

BlizzB: Yeah that might be good, how do you wanna set that up?

BlizzA: I dunno, which characters or zones have links to death

BlizzB: Uh that glacier place and that Sauron dude or whatever

BlizzC: Northrend and the lich king?

BlizzA: isn't that the place with the pandas? I think you mean icecrown

BlizzB: yeah icecrown, that one

BlizzC: there's a dead elf lady who players seem to do lots of porn and shit for, she's probably a better focus marketing wise

BlizzA: true, but lets tie in the lich king in one way or another just because that lich king expac they did a few years ago sold well

BlizzC: okay cool sounds like a plan, we'll get the interns to start drafting up some breadcrumbs to try to tie it into Legion and then we're good

BlizzB: BFA, Legion was the last expac lol

BlizzC: oh right lol

BlizzA: Are you sure?

BlizzB: yes, lol

BlizzC: alright let's meet again in a week or so and we'll fit whatever we've come up with together


It's so profoundly frustrating to have any interest at all in the plot when the characters have multiple personality disorder and their goals and motivations change monthly.

Can't wait for Baine to start eating human children to appease The Great Unclean One he met at a Starbucks 3 expacs ago that was conveniently never mentioned, foreshadowed, or explained.

you are right in some things like silvanas inner dialogues not matching the overall story, but you are wrong in one thing: Silvanas has always seen the forsaken as tools

- - - Updated - - -

But in Before the storm she said in her inner monologue that she never wanted to be the Warchief and that she curses Vol'jin and ... nevermind, sometimes I forget I overestimate writers in their ability to remember their own story.


Now, this is something I don't get. If more deaths means sending more souls to the Maw, which empowers her and Jailer, wouldn't be more easy let the Legion do the job and wipe out the life on Azeroth?

the legion also consumes souls, thats how fel works.

Also if you let the legion go rampart, then there wouldnt be a way to stop them later because they would grow too powerful.

[Artelia]

I love how people read few months old lore that was just rewrited for sake of fan crying after Teldrassil and ignore everything before just because blizzard wants.

Even when there are proofs about retcons everywhere.

[Kithelle]

Yeah no Sylvanas is in control and the reason why she saved Varian wasn't related to Shadowlands in the slightest.



Absolutely not, Sylvanas never planned to be Warchief and they were even writing her as a reluctant leader in Legion before they decided to scrap all of that, drop focus on her in that expansion and set her up for Villain bating in BfA. In fact there's a major contradiction in your statement considering when she calls the retreat at the Broken Shore she doesn't take any interest in seeing how the Alliance are faring and escapes with the Horde Forces to save their losses without consideration for Varian or the other Alliance members survival apart from having signaled a retreat. In other words, saving Varian in the cg cinematic didn't have anything at all to do with her long term or future plans, especially as she doesn't attempt to ensure his survival later.



Something, something Demons and Death don't mix or Sylvanas wanted to win by her own efforts or the Writers didn't think of this plot till halfway through BfA and didn't realise how much it contradicts a lot of past events by having stated it had started long ago retroactively.

Yup, when she saved Varian she wasn't even working for Helya yet much less the Jailer. She doesn't like serving people but will do it when it's a means to a end...if she succeeded with Helya she probably would have never even made a pact with the Jailer

[Varodoc]

Yup, when she saved Varian she wasn't even working for Helya yet much less the Jailer. She doesn't like serving people but will do it when it's a means to a end...if she succeeded with Helya she probably would have never even made a pact with the Jailer

She made the pact with the Jailer in Edge of Night, at the end of WotLK.

[Kithelle]

She made the pact with the Jailer in Edge of Night, at the end of WotLK.

Like they haven't forgotten their own lore in the past? Makes no fucking sense because then she wouldn't have needed Helya.

Someone who hates serving others having 2-3 masters, just more royal fuckups...

[Ielenia]

It's practically a given the writing process went like this:


A month into BFA

BlizzA: Hey let's do a Shadowlands expansion, haven't hit the death theme in a while

Actually, said "conversation" happened while BfA was still under developed, and not "one month after BfA launched".

- - - Updated - - -

Like they haven't forgotten their own lore in the past? Makes no fucking sense because then she wouldn't have needed Helya.

Those aren't mutually exclusive. She could've wanted Helya's power to further her power in Azeroth, considering the Jailer doesn't seem to do anything to the living world.

Someone who hates serving others having 2-3 masters, just more royal fuckups...

Sylvanas never had any masters. She never "served" anyone. 'Striking a deal' doesn't mean 'become subservient to someone'.

[Shakana]

The plotwist: Sylvanas is using the Jailor for her own ends.

[Syegfryed]

if they pull out the "she was just being controlled guys, she was good all along" it will be some gigantic grotesque asspull, that shit is so bad that the potential shenanigans that can come up with that are awful