Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Breccia]

the berlin wall

Funny story: that was one of the walls the authors used as evidence that walls don't work. I did provide a link.

On topic: a resolution has been introduced specifically to block Trump from going to war with Iran.

Sen. Tim Kaine (D-Va.), a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, on Friday introduced a resolution to block President Trump from further escalating hostilities with Iran.

The resolution is privileged, which means Republicans cannot block it from reaching the floor, and comes the day after the surprise drone strike that killed Iraninan Gen. Qassem Soleimani, the leader of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps’s elite Quds Force.

That's right: Clinton's VP pick is trying to block Trump from going to war with Iran.

Read back the 2016 election notes. Who called who the warhawk? Trump's tenure is covered in so much irony it's magnetic.

[Dontrike]

we've got over 2k years of evidence to the contrary.

the berlin wall, the great wall of china, hadrian's wall, whatever the wall in israel is called. basically every roman outpost had a wall, they built them all over the place. every mansion, every embassy, all of these have walls and they work.

what use is there in denying objective reality? does just the plain base reality of existence offend people?

the wall was never an amazing idea, just due to the cost. but denying reality that they DO work is just stupid. it was either hungary or poland put up a dumb fence and it cut illegal crossings by a huge percent. just a dumb fence, like you'd see at a baseball park.

So if they work means the way to make them work would be to have about every 10 feet with someone guarding that section of the wall, various landmines, terrain, and guns to protect it. By the way, how do you expect the wall to be paid for? The wall will easily cost $100 billion to start with and just billions of upkeep on the wall alone, but now you are intending to bring the cost up by multitudes to make it work like the other walls you mentioned.

The funniest thing though is that you think all of those walls were 100% effective, used for immigration solely, and you actually brought up mansions as why a wall works. At that point why not bring up a normal fence around a middle class house.

[derpkitteh]

So if they work means the way to make them work would be to have about every 10 feet with someone guarding that section of the wall, various landmines, terrain, and guns to protect it. By the way, how do you expect the wall to be paid for? The wall will easily cost $100 billion to start with and just billions of upkeep on the wall alone, but now you are intending to bring the cost up by multitudes to make it work like the other walls you mentioned.

The funniest thing though is that you think all of those walls were 100% effective, used for immigration solely, and you actually brought up mansions as why a wall works. At that point why not bring up a normal fence around a middle class house.

i don't think there should be a border wall. i've always been worried about what it'd do the animal migration/travel, like jaguars making their way back into the northern americas and such. ultimately, a wall is effective at reducing the amount of people crossing an area, this is objective fact. nobody says it would be 100% effective and it's the most dishonest shit to pretend that's what everyone means.

but guns, mines, drones, i support that kind of "wall" very much. attempt to cross the border, get blown to pieces. if you do, it's your own fault, because you knew the risk. make it a lethal mistake, and you'll deter all but the most determined of criminals, and at that point, it'd just be removing the most negative elements from both US and mexican society, a net benefit to both our countries.
[Infraction]

[starlord]

DHS issues new terrorism advisory:

The Department of Homeland Security issued a new National Terrorism Advisory System bulletin on Saturday, detailing the drone attack that killed Iranian military leader Qasem Soliemani and warning of the potential for Iranian cyber attacks.

“Iran maintains a robust cyber program and can execute cyber attacks against the United States,” read the bulletin issued by Acting Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf, which expires on Jan. 18.

Wolf says in the bulletin that there is no specific threat against the United States, but warns that “Iran and its partners, such as Hizballah, have demonstrated the intent and capability to conduct operations in the United States" and that homegrown violent extremists could be inspired to launch their own attacks.

Wolf says the DHS is working closely with federal, state, local and private sector partners to detect and defend against threats to the United States.

https://www.wcjb.com/content/news/De...566725471.html

[Flarelaine]

we've got over 2k years of evidence to the contrary.

the berlin wall, the great wall of china, hadrian's wall, whatever the wall in israel is called. basically every roman outpost had a wall, they built them all over the place.

Let's just ask the Romans how their wall worked out for them!

Oh, wait.

[Skroe]

i don't think there should be a border wall. i've always been worried about what it'd do the animal migration/travel, like jaguars making their way back into the northern americas and such. ultimately, a wall is effective at reducing the amount of people crossing an area, this is objective fact. nobody says it would be 100% effective and it's the most dishonest shit to pretend that's what everyone means.

but guns, mines, drones, i support that kind of "wall" very much. attempt to cross the border, get blown to pieces. if you do, it's your own fault, because you knew the risk. make it a lethal mistake, and you'll deter all but the most determined of criminals, and at that point, it'd just be removing the most negative elements from both US and mexican society, a net benefit to both our countries.

Yes let’s put mines on the border. That way we can turn a humanitarian crisis into a full blown crime against humanity. Maybe we can start taking bets. Will it be the land mine that blows off Juan’s leg that gets him? Or will he die of thirst in the desert?

Completely and utterly insane.

Nobody should die for wanting to cross the border. Even illegally. It is not a “crime” worthy of death.

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Funny story: that was one of the walls the authors used as evidence that walls don't work. I did provide a link.

On topic: a resolution has been introduced specifically to block Trump from going to war with Iran.



That's right: Clinton's VP pick is trying to block Trump from going to war with Iran.

Read back the 2016 election notes. Who called who the warhawk? Trump's tenure is covered in so much irony it's magnetic.

Tim Kaine was also the leader of the “you’ll retire the USS Harry Truman carrier over my dead body” brigade. Doesn’t want to attack Iran, but being from Virginia short circuits the Early retirement of a major element of US power projection to wage expeditionary wars.

Another indicator that this is all quite complicated.

[Dontrike]

i don't think there should be a border wall. i've always been worried about what it'd do the animal migration/travel, like jaguars making their way back into the northern americas and such.

That's fair. A wall the size of what Trump and his supporters propose would completely fuck a lot of ecosystems. The fact that Trump wants those studies either rushed or not done at all shows that he knows it would completely screw over areas that have been designated important in one way or another. Hell one wall that was kickstarted went into the property of a butterfly sanctuary, so we know Trump's zealots have no problem fucking over animals or the environment with this useless piece of shit wall.

Of course your other idea does nothing in that regard either.

nobody says it would be 100% effective and it's the most dishonest shit to pretend that's what everyone means.

Trump and everyone that supports him says it would be 100% effective, when we know it won't at any of the things they said it would stop, mainly immigration and drugs, which we know for a fact that it doesn't stop drugs one bit and immigration it won't even stop 25%, let alone anywhere near 100%. The cost of this wall that will barley do a thing is such a waste of money it would just be smarter to put all of that money in a pile and burn it. You seem to think the wall will be somewhat effective, but at the costs to do so is a fucking dumb ass idea.

A fence and proper security would be far better than a wall, or the other "brilliant idea" you thought of.

but guns, mines, drones, i support that kind of "wall" very much.

And we're now at the bulk of why your idea is less than smart. You don't want a wall much like the other walls that have "succeeded", with a wall with armed men with guns and bombs, you just want the guns and bombs.......what? This is like asking for a sandwich but not wanting the bread.

You said you don't want something that would interrupt animal migrations, but seem to forget that these animals (at least ground animals) would also set off those mines and therefore interrupt their migration. Do you think animals have mine sensing powers?

Let's get to the biggest issue here of this brilliant idea is that you are putting those working in that area at risk. I would love to hear your solution to stopping security or even maintenance from dying to these mines. It must be okay though that Mike can't see his kids anymore 'cause her went out to fix something in a field and blew himself up just so you can stop a random immigrant family from seeking asylum.

Can't wait for the thousands of papers they'll have to print up to let people know where exactly those mines are and therefore eventually falling into actual criminals (you know, drug dealers and human traffickers and not a mother and her daughter escaping death) hands so they know where to put their tunnels and even how to sneak through on foot. So far this plan has 109% chance of succeeding already, and it can only get better!

make it a lethal mistake, and you'll deter all but the most determined of criminals, and at that point, it'd just be removing the most negative elements from both US and mexican society, a net benefit to both our countries.

It's a little funny, okay a lot funny, that you think that these criminals walk over like this is a shitty RTS game where you see the "enemy" walk across the map rather than what the criminals actually do. They have boats, planes, and tunnels; those right there are the reason actual criminal activity won't be stopped by the wall and why these mines and guns won't do anything either. Really the only thing that this idea of yours would stop are those seeking asylum or refuge.

Congratulations though, you blew up a family that was trying to live the American dream and escaping death, sure you didn't stop drug runners or human traffickers just walking through their tunnel underneath the mines or far away from them, but at least you took out the family of six from......living. Yay........?

You're right though, I already feel safer with this totally not insane idea of yours.

[derpkitteh]

Congratulations though, you blew up a family that was trying to live the American dream and escaping death, sure you didn't stop drug runners or human traffickers just walking through their tunnel underneath the mines or far away from them, but at least you took out the family of six from......living. Yay........?

You're right though, I already feel safer with this totally not insane idea of yours.

they knew the risks. nobody that chooses to illegally enter another country is innocent.

a few people get shot or killed by drones, word will spread that we're serious. you'd only use mines in specific areas, hotspots well traveled. with drones, boats would be the most unsafe way for a criminal to get in, and i'm pretty sure drones have ways of detecting people underground. detect them and missile strike the area.

[Pendulous]

The amount of people willing to kill anyone who commits a misdemeanor is too damn high.

[Polyxo]

If you guys think cartels can't build mine-clearing vehicles and stuff, you're crazy.

[Twdft]

they knew the risks. nobody that chooses to illegally enter another country is innocent.

a few people get shot or killed by drones, word will spread that we're serious. you'd only use mines in specific areas, hotspots well traveled. with drones, boats would be the most unsafe way for a criminal to get in, and i'm pretty sure drones have ways of detecting people underground. detect them and missile strike the area.

America: we are the land of the free, built by immigrants fleeing from oppression and death.

Also America: let's bomb immigrants fleeing from oppression and death. Fuck anyone who wants to come in later than we did.

How about this: tell everyone in border states to move about a thousand miles north and nuke the entire 1000 miles corridor. Noone can cross into the US then.

[Lanrefni]

If you guys think cartels can't build mine-clearing vehicles and stuff, you're crazy.

The cartels would love a mine field all along the border,would make it substantially harder to locate the tunnels they use.

[Dontrike]

they knew the risks

They know the risks of mines that they don't know is there? Nice back asswards logic there.

a few people get shot or killed by drones, word will spread that we're serious.

Now just to be sure. You hated the idea of a wall manned by security, with guns, but you're okay with men having guns and mines as long as there is no actual wall.

The real question is if you're actually serious about this totally smart idea.

you'd only use mines in specific areas, hotspots well traveled.

So there'd have to be a physical map to let our people know where they are, and again sooner or later actual criminals will get them and avoid the mines. You also didn't explain how to keep our people safe and not killing them with said mines or how it wouldn't impact animals. You'll also have to explain how killing random immigrants will protect us in any way.

with drones, boats would be the most unsafe way for a criminal to get in, and i'm pretty sure drones have ways of detecting people underground. detect them and missile strike the area.

So now we're potentially bombing U.S. territory to get at those tunnels. Jesus cock sucking Christ your ideas are so incredibly sane and smart.

By the way, what's your solution to planes? Going to hit commercial flights with missiles 'cause someone has a gram of coke in their ass?

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If you guys think cartels can't build mine-clearing vehicles and stuff, you're crazy.

Don't worry, apparently we just have to bomb them with something stronger, that's apparently the solution to everything.

[derpkitteh]

They know the risks of mines that they don't know is there? Nice back asswards logic there.



Now just to be sure. You hated the idea of a wall manned by security, with guns, but you're okay with men having guns and mines as long as there is no actual wall.

The real question is if you're actually serious about this totally smart idea.



So there'd have to be a physical map to let our people know where they are, and again sooner or later actual criminals will get them and avoid the mines. You also didn't explain how to keep our people safe and not killing them with said mines or how it wouldn't impact animals. You'll also have to explain how killing random immigrants will protect us in any way.



So now we're potentially bombing U.S. territory to get at those tunnels. Jesus cock sucking Christ your ideas are so incredibly sane and smart.

By the way, what's your solution to planes? Going to hit commercial flights with missiles 'cause someone has a gram of coke in their ass?

yes, we should bomb the US soil of the border to protect it.

what i suggest is basically our current level of border security forces, only lethal. with drones added.

as for the people smuggling shit through commercial flight, that's always something that has to be addressed when it's discovered. you can't make things 100% airtight, but you can be much more hardline about how you defend your territory.

it doesn't matter why they're coming here. there's a legal way to go about it. do that, or do not come here, you're unwelcome if you are unwilling to use the processes offered to you.

our immigration system should basically be a long process of immersion and basically indoctrination into respect for the constitution, respect for individualism(american individualism, that is to say, always being a nationalist patriot, but still an individual in all other ways), and dislike of any foreign and anti-american form of thought like communism.

[Dontrike]

yes, we should bomb the US soil of the border to protect it.

'Cause that's not worrying in the least. Tell me, what if those bombs also cause casualties of citizens? What then?

what i suggest is basically our current level of border security forces, only lethal. with drones added.

Also mines, but why ignore things you yourself said. After all you're just suggesting killing asylum seekers, so it's best to play that down.

as for the people smuggling shit through commercial flight, that's always something that has to be addressed when it's discovered. you can't make things 100% airtight, but you can be much more hardline about how you defend your territory.

Oh so now there's a limit to the insanity, well at least that's good. Still the ideas you put forth are fucking insane.

it doesn't matter why they're coming here. there's a legal way to go about it. do that, or do not come here, you're unwelcome if you are unwilling to use the processes offered to you.

Seeking asylum is legal, you get that, right? That means those mines you have out are there to kill people trying to come here legally through the process. Congratulations, you fucked your own argument, again.

our immigration system should basically be a long process of immersion and basically indoctrination into respect for the constitution, respect for individualism(american individualism, that is to say, always being a nationalist patriot, but still an individual in all other ways), and dislike of any foreign and anti-american form of thought like communism.

Wow.....I take back the limit thing from before.

[Belize]

The amount of people willing to kill anyone who commits a misdemeanor is too damn high.

They only want to kill certain people committing misdemeanors.

[happyliar]

Just a quick reminder....

illegal immigration is a misdemeanor, akin to jaywalking.... it's basically just jaywalking internationally. This thread is talking about killing people for jaywalking... due process says hello

[Breccia]

Trump asks an NY judge to dismiss the latest rape case against him.

"Ah, because there's no case so it should be summarily dismissed?"

Actually no, because the accusation was made in Washington and it should be tried there.

Trump’s lawyer said in a court filing Friday that E. Jean Carroll, an advice columnist, cannot sue the president in New York because the statements at issue were made in Washington.

Trump denies Carroll’s claims and said New York courts lack personal jurisdiction over him “even when the purported statements were published to New York readers/listeners, or were directed towards or caused harm to a New York citizen.”

The president also noted that he hadn’t been served the complaint in New York. Carroll has claimed that Secret Service agents blocked her attempts to serve the complaint, and a judge ruled she could serve it by mail to the White House.

Carroll’s attorney said Trump’s understanding of the law around personal jurisdiction is wrong and meant to avoid having to hand over documents.

Unrelated: the US-led coalition to combat ISIS has put their actions on hold. Yes, it's because of Iran. Which means that, even if you agree that the target of Trump's assassination was a terrorist (which opens the door to attacks on US politicians, don't forget) this has the immediate, direct result of allowing other terrorists to operate.

Hey remember when Trump said Obama was the literally the leader of ISIS? I remember it like CNN quoted it and here it is.

[Noxx79]

yes, we should bomb the US soil of the border to protect it.

what i suggest is basically our current level of border security forces, only lethal. with drones added.

as for the people smuggling shit through commercial flight, that's always something that has to be addressed when it's discovered. you can't make things 100% airtight, but you can be much more hardline about how you defend your territory.

it doesn't matter why they're coming here. there's a legal way to go about it. do that, or do not come here, you're unwelcome if you are unwilling to use the processes offered to you.

our immigration system should basically be a long process of immersion and basically indoctrination into respect for the constitution, respect for individualism(american individualism, that is to say, always being a nationalist patriot, but still an individual in all other ways), and dislike of any foreign and anti-american form of thought like communism.

You cannot indoctrinate people into individualism, that’s an oxymoron.

And which culture should we indoctrinate people into? There’s a vast difference in culture between NYC and LA and Kansas City and Stillwater Oklahoma, and unincorporated Wyoming. It’s what makes America great and successful: Diversity of thought.

Also the founders would vomit at your plan.

Also good luck forcing respect for the constitution when the freaking president, let alone many Americans (and yes I’m going to say BoTh SiDeS here) don't actually respect it.

It all comes down to this: who’s version of America should we force?

[Adam Jensen]

I didn't think my disgust for Donald Trump could get worse, but these last few days have proved otherwise.

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yes, we should bomb the US soil of the border to protect it.

what i suggest is basically our current level of border security forces, only lethal. with drones added.

as for the people smuggling shit through commercial flight, that's always something that has to be addressed when it's discovered. you can't make things 100% airtight, but you can be much more hardline about how you defend your territory.

it doesn't matter why they're coming here. there's a legal way to go about it. do that, or do not come here, you're unwelcome if you are unwilling to use the processes offered to you.

our immigration system should basically be a long process of immersion and basically indoctrination into respect for the constitution, respect for individualism(american individualism, that is to say, always being a nationalist patriot, but still an individual in all other ways), and dislike of any foreign and anti-american form of thought like communism.

Maybe we should have immigrants sit in front of a psychadelic spiral and chant at them:

YOU WILL HATE COMMUNISM
YOU WILL HATE COMMUNISM
YOU WILL HATE COMMUNISM
YOU WILL BUY SHIT YOU DON'T NEED
YOU WILL HATE COMMUNISM