Patch 8.3 PTR - New Auction House Interface and Updates

[Machinelf]

All this means is that I won't even log back on to WOW to auction, because like many people I never adopted TSM4 and TSM3 probably won't be updated. Cockblocked by 2 different clueless developers GG

[Darkke]

That's how the market works. The price fluctuates. Undercutting is necessary.

That is true for undercuts that are deep enough to actually affect the price. What people are saying is that barely noticeable undercuts like 1c etc are going to be pointless after this change.

[Phurox]

This system seems pretty stupid. If I post 400 linen to 1 gold each, and three people post 600 each After me, it means all their 1800 linen needs to be sold before mine gets sold.

The last should be sold first, with the later added after. This will probably kill the AH for casuals.

[frott]

That is true for undercuts that are deep enough to actually affect the price. What people are saying is that barely noticeable undercuts like 1c etc are going to be pointless after this change.

And they're not smart.

Undercutting still exists, it's still a thing. People keep bringing up 1 or 2 more buyers = undercutting is pointless, in their vapid scenarios.

"6 auctions and you're the 7th but someone wants to buy 7 see undercutting is pointless!"


Realistic scenarios would include the rate that something gets purchased, the rarity of the item, and the volume available for sale. Essentially exactly like a stock market, you have buy walls and sell walls.


So say something is posted for 60g regularly. There are 1,000 up at 60g.
And on average, that thing sells once every minute at 60g BUT 100 are posted every minute.

If you post yours at 60g, depending on where in the "purchase pulse" you end up, you could be waiting 100 minutes to sell yours if you post at 60g
OR, you can guarantee that you are the next one sold at 59g99s99c

That's how the walls break down and prices lower in the first place. If there are waaaay more sellers than buyers, the price effectively, eventually drops due to people selling at <60 then <59.99.99 and so on, until they start selling.


Price points have "sales rates." 60g might sell once a minute, but the same item at 50g would sell once every 10 seconds, and so on.


Basically, I probably should delete this post because people claiming "it's the end of undercutting" are what allow people who know how to work the auctionhouse to make easy profits.

- - - Updated - - -

This system seems pretty stupid. If I post 400 linen to 1 gold each, and three people post 600 each After me, it means all their 1800 linen needs to be sold before mine gets sold.

The last should be sold first, with the later added after. This will probably kill the AH for casuals.

The last is sold first. (last in, first out) You mean the first should be first. (first in, first out)


Three people would just post 1800 linen for 99s 99c and still sell before yours... so what's the difference?


The reason why you do LIFO is to set the market around the most "recently valuated things."

If an item is up there for X for 3 weeks, and I post it also at X, I am essentially confirming that price point so my valuation goes first. Otherwise, I could easily just undercut it by minimum amount to do the same thing.

[LordVargK]

And they're not smart.

Undercutting still exists, it's still a thing. People keep bringing up 1 or 2 more buyers = undercutting is pointless, in their vapid scenarios.

"6 auctions and you're the 7th but someone wants to buy 7 see undercutting is pointless!"


Realistic scenarios would include the rate that something gets purchased, the rarity of the item, and the volume available for sale. Essentially exactly like a stock market, you have buy walls and sell walls.


So say something is posted for 60g regularly. There are 1,000 up at 60g.
And on average, that thing sells once every minute at 60g BUT 100 are posted every minute.

If you post yours at 60g, depending on where in the "purchase pulse" you end up, you could be waiting 100 minutes to sell yours if you post at 60g
OR, you can guarantee that you are the next one sold at 59g99s99c

That's how the walls break down and prices lower in the first place. If there are waaaay more sellers than buyers, the price effectively, eventually drops due to people selling at <60 then <59.99.99 and so on, until they start selling.


Price points have "sales rates." 60g might sell once a minute, but the same item at 50g would sell once every 10 seconds, and so on.


Basically, I probably should delete this post because people claiming "it's the end of undercutting" are what allow people who know how to work the auctionhouse to make easy profits.

Your calculation has a flaw: It only works if the market is not in equilibirum. Once prices have dropped enough then supply will dry out until supply = demand. And at that point undercutting stops being a thing. But I think you know that and meant "stop" instead of the marked text? Nevertheless, the new system is an upgrade form the old system.

[Flame6]

Still needs buy orders.

[Darkke]

So say something is posted for 60g regularly. There are 1,000 up at 60g.
And on average, that thing sells once every minute at 60g BUT 100 are posted every minute.

If you post yours at 60g, depending on where in the "purchase pulse" you end up, you could be waiting 100 minutes to sell yours if you post at 60g
OR, you can guarantee that you are the next one sold at 59g99s99c

The flaw in that example is that you assume that people would keep posting the item at 60g while your auction would stay as the only one at lower price and thus sell next. Realistically people would just start posting their auctions at 59g99s99c moment you posted your auction at that price and you would have to wait same amount of time regardless if you undercut or not.

Basically in current system undercutting has three effects:
- It moves your auction front of the listings
- It increases the demand as price goes lower
- It lowers the supply as profit gets lower and people don't want to sell their items at lower profits.
Trick is that the first effect is static while the others scale by how much you undercut. When you undercut by minimal amount you still move your auction to the top of the listings and two other effects are negligible.
In the new system your auction moves in front of the line regardless if you undercut or not so any undercutting where the other two effects are negligible is pointless.

[kaintk]

finally an AH fighting agains the abuser of it
took 15 years on the other side lol

[kaintk]

but how wanna ppl then play the AH game well ? this in fact kills a part of existing game ppl like. or what i am missing here ?

it kill the fact that people was abusing the things and was hiding the real deal with a mountain of the same item x1, it kill one apect of this and im happy for that

[Rucati]

Explain to me in this example where the cost drops again?

I can point it out to you, really. It's "After a while, the 'new' items aren't as rare" - Except you skip the part here where the rarity drop is also including those numerous new people with access to the item undercutting one another to drop the price in the first place. How does the price drop if no one is undercutting? Does it not just stay the exact same?

(I'm not talking about 1c undercuts. Prices rapidly drop as people undercut by golds, dozens of gold, sometimes hundreds of gold for more expensive items, to sell their item faster. As that snowballs, prices drop. But why do this if you'll sell first by just posting at the same price?)

Do you really need this explained? lol

The price of items drops because of one or two reasons. Either people no longer need the item, so the demand goes away, or the item starts getting farmed so the supply goes up. It has literally nothing to do with undercutting.

For example the prices for consumables will go up when the new raid comes out because there's demand for them. Then in a month when everyone has cleared the new raid the demand will slow down and the price will decrease over time. Not because people are undercutting each other, but because less people are buying the item in the first place.

If undercutting tanked the price of items then literally everything on the AH would sell for under 10g, which very obviously isn't the case. I honestly can't even fathom how you came to that conclusion.

[dragnipur]

Yeah GW2 has a really robust player driven economy/auction system... I don’t get why blizzard is only implementing half of their system. Maybe the buyer side will come in Shadowlands?

Yea the GW2's AH is pretty great.Anet nailed this aspect quite well.

[ErrandRunner]

The current AH is awful so any change is welcome.

[garminexpress8]

Nice change, but giving priority to auctions that were added last logic is stupid.

[Maell]

People are mashing two concepts into one that are different.

One thing is what is the undercut for minimal amount so you get to the front of the queue so your stuff sells faster and you can make your turnover faster. - This is done when the item will sell that price it is just that maybe there 100 items in the price range that will sell and only 60 will be bought for a time period (12 or 24h or whatever).

Another thing is when you undercut by a decent amount (10%, 20% or more) because that item is not selling so you make your item seem a great buy because it is so much cheaper than what it is established. This is the case of IF the item sells not WHEN will it sell.

You do sometimes get stuff in between these two cases when like the previous example someone drops a large amount of an item in the AH undercutting it by some margin to just sell it fast. If it does sell really fast and while it is up and no other player sees that price as the new norm the price will revert back to what it was.
If the item does not get sniped/sells fast and it stays for a while it will become the new price since if you want to sell it you have to undercut it so your item sells.

Like everything in economics not everything is a straight line that you can follow easily, there are a lot of nuances and small events that can trigger larger scale events.

[Daevied]

Havent read it, but i guess we still missing a "request" tab for us to ask for items at certain prices to whoever is willing to offer.

[Rucati]

So when does the price go down?

Are you... Are you serious? Surely you're trolling at this point. I didn't even bother reading the rest, don't I just can't, like I don't know how to make it any more obvious so either you're trolling or you're beyond help.

[Dziubla]

This thread (and similar thread that happened on r/woweconomy back when they announced the changes) is perfect example why they should start teaching some basic economy in schools.

[talmar]

Well, personally, I'm of the opinion this should help the 1c undercutting. I don't think it will eliminate 1c undercutting for the very reason you see the lengthy debates posted in this thread. There will always be people will believe undercutting by 1c will benefit their auction. However, as stated, these changes will most likely reduce the amount of people doing it, especially as people become more aware of how it actually works.

Very thankful these changes remove the stack size mini game. Hated breaking things down into stacks of 2 or 5 or 10 as most people don't need 20 of an item and smaller stack sizes were more efficient. Just post away and it's all a big pool. Very much like that.

I do very much wish they would implement the buying screen so many have mentioned. I have never played GW2 but from what others say the auction environment and player economy works very very well.

I'm very much a pet collector and post and buy pets frequently. When I undercut it's usually by thousands as I don't believe pets will sell at some of the exorbitant prices I see them posted at. I'll reference the The Undermine Journal and then post/undercut accordingly.

[Rucati]

But you literally didn't say any point when the price drops.

You explained supply. You explained demand. When does the price drop? When demand outdoes supply, prices rise. But when supply outdoes demand, prices only drop if people drop the prices - By undercutting. They don't magically decide to drop, there's no system in place to force people to drop prices - PEOPLE need to drop them BY UNDERCUTTING.

No, people drop prices to sell items. I mean sure, technically it's being undercut because people are posting at lower prices, but that's because otherwise it won't sell. According to your logic literally every item on the AH should sell for millions of gold, but because people are undercutting each other the price drops? Yeah, okay. Linen cloth is totally worth 5 million gold each, good thing people are undercutting each other or it would be so expensive to craft anything. Although presumably in your world those crafted items would be worth a billion gold each so I guess it'd be fine?

That's literally like saying the only reason bread sells for $1 a loaf in real life is because it used to sell for thousands but everyone around the world undercut each other and that's why it's so cheap now. Like no, the reason it sells for that is because that's all people are willing to pay because it isn't worth more. Same reason herbs in WoW are only worth 5g each, nobody is willing to pay more, so if every single person posted at 10000g a herb they would literally never sell and eventually people would have to post for less and less.

I can't fucking believe this is that complicated for you. It's baffling.

[Rucati]

/thread


.

Didn't bother reading the rest of your essay. The fact you think anyone posting for less than someone else is the definition of "undercut" in this context is completely absurd. If I have something worth 5000g and I post it and it doesn't sell for a week, I'll drop the price to 4000g, did I just undercut myself? I can't make this any clearer. Please try using your brain for 5 minutes before typing an essay I'll ignore because you prove you're clueless one sentence in.