Av exploit legal?

[Hunterwep]

It's not and exploit. This was fixed in patch 2.3.0

Patch 2.3.0 (13-Nov-2007): All Warmasters are linked to each other and their respective Generals and can no longer be pulled individually.

Sad to read this, would probably mean it will never get patched or fixed like this.
So now we are stuck with these cheesy rush tactics forever.
Games already get as short as 5 minutes. Imagine players getting AQ40 gear and up.

[Kralljin]

Sad to read this, would probably mean it will never get patched or fixed like this.
So now we are stuck with these cheesy rush tactics forever.
Games already get as short as 5 minutes. Imagine players getting AQ40 gear and up.

Feel free to blame Blizzard, they chose 1.12 AV as their preferred version of AV.
With an earlier AV, these Rush strats would have been a lot harder to pull off, especially if the enemy faction actually wants to stop you.

[Unholyground]

#somechanges, we need it.

[jackofwind]

Sad to read this, would probably mean it will never get patched or fixed like this.
So now we are stuck with these cheesy rush tactics forever.
Games already get as short as 5 minutes. Imagine players getting AQ40 gear and up.

Imagine anyone playing AV ever again after hitting exalted within 48 hours of AV's release.

[Kralljin]

At every tiny little thing Blizz or the community looked to try and improve on.

Okay, did Blizzard offer any actual suggestions?

You see, that's kinda the problem whenever Blizzard talks about "discussion", it's the community arguing with eachother while Blizzard watches and then present people with already made decisions.
Blizzard is not an active participant of the discussion towards the community.

That aside, no_one_said "only use 1.12 content, anything before that is offlimits!", you can screech at at the #nochanges people all you want, but most of them would have been pretty chill if Blizzard had said "we want to use 1.6 AV because we believe that's the experience people want to have in AV in Classic".

There, read their bluepost and tell me whether you find Blizzard at any point saying "people want 1.12, so that's what we're giving them", not at any point their even suggested they decision has anything to do with "#no changes".

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...classic/128908

Also, there are handful of examples on Classic that aren't consistent with 1.12, such as:
-Mounts (Mounts are expensive, riding is cheap)
-Loot tables in BRD / LBRS
-"Catch up" loot in max level dungeons (the blue Cloth head from Drakkisath is better than the Mage / Warlock T2 headpiece for example)

Minor things, but there for some reason Blizzard was willing to shelve the 1.12 state.

[Hctaz]

People were literally setting the forums on fire because they announced they would be putting classic on the new bnet client, and you want them to then suggest actual gameplay changes after those animals made it VERY clear how hard shit was going to hit the fan if Blizzard tried to change/upgrade/etc Classic.

And in regards to 1.12 being the issue, while I agree that a previous patch would have made AV much more enjoyable, but what would you have Blizzard do? Using 1.12 was the only logical step in my eyes as if you use any previous patch as your guide you are surely going to set fire to a large portion of your playerbase and they are going to lose their minds with the "not my vanilla" crap. People would have been pissed that they chose 1.05 instead of 1.07 or instead of 1.12 even.

This entire project has just been Blizzard constantly stuck between a rock and a hard place with no real winning scenario for them to try and go for. The problems with Classic aren't Blizzard's fault, they are the players in my humble opinion. Something like Classic+ would have been so much better in my eyes, updating and upgrading the game we all know and love to be the best version of itself that it could be without these ridiculous bugs/exploits/inbalance/etc. But again, doing classic+ would have created pandemonium since many would have raised hell over it with the #NO CHANGES bs.

It's still possible to make Classic+ a reality, but the community would need to rally that towards Blizzard BEFORE they just up and announce TBC being released.

I actually have WiP discord server with some ideas for Classic+

There would be some changes to some of the Vanilla content while also introducing new content.

The goal would be that Classic would exist as mostly a museum section of the game with very minimal changes and would not be impacted by the new content while the new content would feel like Classic WoW more so than it would feel like TBC and beyond.

In terms of what the game could look like (in my opinion) we have:

A: The content release ends with Naxx. The game either stagnates from there or Blizzard wipes servers periodically for re-progression. Probably the death of the game long term.

B: The Classic servers are upgraded to TBC without your input. You either play TBC or you quit. This would reduce player count as there are undoubtedly many players who prefer Classic Classic and would not want to move on to TBC.

C: You create new TBC servers. This would allow people to choose which version of the game they would like but would probably split the playerbase and kill of already small Classic Vanilla servers.

D: They decide to make Classic+ with community-driven feedback reusing old assets and areas from future expansions but altered to fit Classic's design.

I personally think that D is the best timeline.

[Drusin]

#somechanges, we need it.

It's been #someChanges for a while now that's why I stopped saying #noChanges lol

[Kralljin]

People were literally setting the forums on fire because they announced they would be putting classic on the new bnet client, and you want them to then suggest actual gameplay changes after those animals made it VERY clear how hard shit was going to hit the fan if Blizzard tried to change/upgrade/etc Classic.

Yes, and?
I really have no idea why people feel the need to bring "#nochanges" up, i'm not suggesting that Blizzard should put anything into AV that wasn't in Vanilla.
Rather, i'm asking to put things in there that were removed over the course of Vanilla.

People would have been pissed that they chose 1.05 instead of 1.07 or instead of 1.12 even.

People aren't losing their crap over the other issues, why would they lose it over AV?
Because it's less efficient in terms of honor? You know, how the BG was generally seen over the course of Classic.
Because the battles are longer? The thing Classic AV has been famous for.

Take the lack of "catch up" blue from max level dungeons, it would have ruined a lot of the classic experience if even more raid items are worse than dungeon blues and are solely in because they're a part of 1.12.
Blizzard excluded them, because it improved the overall experience, as this catch up gear isn't even necessary at this stage.

The reality is, the current classic enviroment is a hodgepodge of 1.12 state, with content somehow being plastered over it and Blizzard sometimes just lapsing back to a non 1.12 version of things for no real reason.
Blizzard also chose 1.12 as their "default" version, despite the fact that some people wanted progressive servers, it's not like some people's suggestions (which aren't even related to nochanges) were ignored.

AV is in my opinion the picture perfect example where Blizzard should have chosen to break away from the 1.12 default client and chosen a previous version that is closer to the original spirit of AV.
Heck, their entire content release schedule is in itself a breakaway from the 1.12 state because 1.12 had everything.

Not everybody can get want they want, question is, was the decision to use 1.12 AV over a previous version really the lesser of two evils?

[Kagthul]

Feel free to blame Blizzard, they chose 1.12 AV as their preferred version of AV.
With an earlier AV, these Rush strats would have been a lot harder to pull off, especially if the enemy faction actually wants to stop you.

No, they chose 1.12 as the patch to base everything on, because shits like you would never have agreed to a pick-and-choose selection of "the best parts of all Classic patches".

That simple.

Its a very simple to understand decision:

Pick a single patch, base everything on that, make no exceptions and never deviate.

Because while YOU might have wanted AV 1.6 or whatever, OTHERS probably didn't. While YOU might have wanted a talent tree build from 1.8 for a particular class, OTHERS DID NOT.

So, rather than try to picka nd choose and please no one, they just picked one (the one that even back in Vanilla they considered the most complete form of WoW) and went with it, full stop.

Any time you want to quit whining like a 2 year old about it, let us know.

Until then, enjoy ignore.

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It's still possible to make Classic+ a reality,

No it isn't, because no one agrees what that is.

I 100% guarantee you my thoughts on Classic+ and yours are incompatible.

its a loser from minute one.

[OriginalName]

No, they chose 1.12 as the patch to base everything on, because shits like you would never have agreed to a pick-and-choose selection of "the best parts of all Classic patches".

That simple.

Its a very simple to understand decision:

Pick a single patch, base everything on that, make no exceptions and never deviate.

Because while YOU might have wanted AV 1.6 or whatever, OTHERS probably didn't. While YOU might have wanted a talent tree build from 1.8 for a particular class, OTHERS DID NOT.

So, rather than try to picka nd choose and please no one, they just picked one (the one that even back in Vanilla they considered the most complete form of WoW) and went with it, full stop.

Any time you want to quit whining like a 2 year old about it, let us know.

Until then, enjoy ignore.

Howcome private servers are able to emulate actual vanilla patch cycles with gear changes, loot table changes, boss changes from patch to patch while blizzard themselves are not able to?

[Askyl]

Not sure why so many people are against fixing what was broken in vanilla. It's possible to do without ruining the core vanilla gameplay and philisophy. #somechanges are needed.

[Seranthor]

Howcome private servers are able to emulate actual vanilla patch cycles with gear changes, loot table changes, boss changes from patch to patch while blizzard themselves are not able to?

It's not that Blizzard cant... its Blizzard has made the choice not to.

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Not sure why so many people are against fixing what was broken in vanilla. It's possible to do without ruining the core vanilla gameplay and philisophy. #somechanges are needed.

When people sign on to the 'somechanges' team what they are actually signing onto is the 'mychanges' team, because lets face it, changes you disagree with will cause a severe adverse reaction, despite the claim of 'somechanges' are needed.

[OriginalName]

It's not that Blizzard cant... its Blizzard has made the choice not to.

If that's the case then it's pretty sad, because a lot of the issues in classic rn is borne out of this decision.

Either case, it was a reply to the guy saying that there is only ONE WAY to do it, while private servers have been emulating actual vanilla for years now.

[Kithelle]

If that's the case then it's pretty sad, because a lot of the issues in classic rn is borne out of this decision.

Because...they didn't Classic to be a constant work, they made it to make people who wanted to play Classic a legit way to play it...make a little extra money. They went with the final version...it's not their fault you all will never be happy and basically expect them to make you a new game just to placate you.

[Seranthor]

If that's the case then it's pretty sad, because a lot of the issues in classic rn is borne out of this decision.

Then you probably need to get everyone together and get them to all agree on which version of Frankenvanilla you really want..

Because 1.5 version of this, and 1.8 version of that and 1.12 version of something else all cobbled together isn't going to be 'Vanilla'... it will be Frankenvanilla. The sad thing is that each of you pissing and moaning about wanting to fix this or that or change this or that for 'reasons' further validates that guy that said 'you think you do but you dont'.

[OriginalName]

Then you probably need to get everyone together and get them to all agree on which version of Frankenvanilla you really want..

Because 1.5 version of this, and 1.8 version of that and 1.12 version of something else all cobbled together isn't going to be 'Vanilla'... it will be Frankenvanilla. The sad thing is that each of you pissing and moaning about wanting to fix this or that or change this or that for 'reasons' further validates that guy that said 'you think you do but you dont'.

bruh you completely missed the mark of what I wrote.

I've not asked for any changes or fixes, i've just pointed out that other people (private servers) have done a much better and more thorough job than blizzard have, which is a dang shame because it reeks of laziness.

Because...they didn't Classic to be a constant work, they made it to make people who wanted to play Classic a legit way to play it...make a little extra money. They went with the final version...it's not their fault you all will never be happy and basically expect them to make you a new game just to placate you.

As Seranthor pointed out, putting together elements from 1.5, 1.8, 1.12 etcetera will simply makes a frankenvanilla, which you guys somehow attribute to what I want, when I would rather have actual patch cycles, i.e not frankenvanilla but vanilla.

I don't think it would take much more work, since, again private servers have been able to do this for years. Either way, I don't get your gripe with me, you're saying I shouldn't be arguing for a better product as a (core) customer of Classic content? That's not placation.

[Mirishka]

A: The content release ends with Naxx. The game either stagnates from there or Blizzard wipes servers periodically for re-progression. Probably the death of the game long term.

Nonsense. There are people who were content to play on private servers for like, a decade. All the while begging for Classic servers. And now the people who don't appreciate Classic for what it is, expect Blizz to create what amounts to fanfiction AU Classic servers with retail flourishes. Defeating the very purpose of Classic (experiencing WoW as it was) in the first place.

No. Just... no.

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Because...they didn't Classic to be a constant work, they made it to make people who wanted to play Classic a legit way to play it...make a little extra money. They went with the final version...it's not their fault you all will never be happy and basically expect them to make you a new game just to placate you.

Amen.

/10chars

[Terongor]

What happened to #nochanges? You can't change your oppinion when its covenient for you.

[MrKnowItAll]

I think people dont really feel like this is a big thing when hordes actually win all the games except when they play against ally premades. That prolly makes hordes have like 95% win ratio in AVs.

[Seranthor]

bruh you completely missed the mark of what I wrote.

I've not asked for any changes or fixes, i've just pointed out that other people (private servers) have done a much better and more thorough job than blizzard have, which is a dang shame because it reeks of laziness.



As Seranthor pointed out, putting together elements from 1.5, 1.8, 1.12 etcetera will simply makes a frankenvanilla, which you guys somehow attribute to what I want, when I would rather have actual patch cycles, i.e not frankenvanilla but vanilla.

I don't think it would take much more work, since, again private servers have been able to do this for years. Either way, I don't get your gripe with me, you're saying I shouldn't be arguing for a better product as a (core) customer of Classic content? That's not placation.

I missed nothing... you want your Vanilla to flow... That isn't going to happen... its going to be 1.12... It will be that snapshot in time... a museum... not a living breathing flowing thing.