Should bailing on a M+ group be penalized?

[123youshowme]

Just because the enemy changes doesn’t mean shit. What about LFR? LFG HC dungeons? If you leave then you get a penalty. If you want to use your logic that you can quit just because you are not getting what you signed up for, you have to include all situations in that too. It’s their logic, not mine. Moving the goal to suit your agenda doesn’t make your logic any more sound.

Matchmaker things you get a penalty
premade things you don't

There you go. Anything with a queue is subject to a deserter.

[Ange]

There you go. Anything with a queue is subject to a deserter.

What about mythic raid lockouts or arena with a premade team?

Reward systems are just under stricter rules in WoW.

[123youshowme]

What about mythic raid lockouts or arena with a premade team?

Reward systems are just under stricter rules in WoW.

a lockout is a lockout. You leave and you aren't penalized, you are just locked to that raid id.
It's not a key where you can run it over and over again.

you aren't locked out from heroic/normal, which doesn't have a queue either.

There's no lockout in arena either, tf are you talking about? You leave the match and your team fights without you (or surrenders) but there's no penalty

[Ange]

a lockout is a lockout. You leave and you aren't penalized, you are just locked to that raid id.
It's not a key where you can run it over and over again.

you aren't locked out from heroic/normal, which doesn't have a queue either.

There's no lockout in arena either, tf are you talking about? You leave the match and your team fights without you (or surrenders) but there's no penalty

???

Locking you out from mythic raid for a full reset is no penealty?
Losing mmr and rating for bailing is again no penealty?
New years arena season canceling was again no issue, because the rated players could just do korraks revenge for honor?

And why do you mention normal/heroic difficulty? Is a mythic raider with a lockout fine, because he can just do LFR raiding for a week? Thats how you think about this?

[123youshowme]

???

Locking you out from mythic raid for a full reset is no penealty?
Losing mmr and rating for bailing is again no penealty?
New years arena season canceling was again no issue, because the rated players could just do korraks revenge for honor?

And why do you mention normal/heroic difficulty? Is a mythic raider with a lockout fine, because he can just do LFR raiding for a week? Thats how you think about this?

And in that regard, depleting a key is a penalty. (it isn't, its just failure. Abandoning a group just makes your group more likely to fail, there's no penalty)

and no, being locked out isn't a penalty. You can take your locked out ass and build a raid in that lockout. You leaving is not a penalty in any form or fashion, you just abandoned a group.

Losing MMR is just like failing the key. It's a consequence of losing, not a penalty. They sound the same but they aren't. A penalty would be like the deserter debuff, not losing.

New years season ending and all of this have nothing to do with anything, that was a bug that was fixed.

You're beyond stupid because you fail to understand that heroic and under are flex and mythic is a lockout. There's no penalty to leaving a lockout, you can rejoin *that same lockout* at a later time, assuming you get invited. Not getting re-invited isn't a penalty, either.

I really hope english isn't your first language




and let me reiterate, failing/losing isn't a penalty. It's just failing/losing. You aren't punished for losing, you just lose.

[crakerjack]

I understand people leaving when a group really shits the bed, but I can't stand the elitest who leave after one bad pull/mishap.

[Ange]

@123youshowme
Your burner account might need soon a replacement.
Infracted;

[outcomeofcum]

I understand people leaving when a group really shits the bed, but I can't stand the elitest who leave after one bad pull/mishap.

If I get deserter for leaving a battleground before its over, why dont I get that for leaving a M+.

[Protean]

So you are on shrine, first boss, boss does the charge and tank dies cause he got knocked down somehow, you leave cause you dont wanna bear a whole m+ with that braindead tank, and you get penalized, great system right.

The best solution is to not pug anyways.

Bad players need everything to go exactly according to the script. Great players make success of every situation.

[callipygoustp]

very rarely do people leave good groups.

my 2c

^This
{10char}

[Kaver]

I understand the idea behind this, but this is also not really a solution, because how else do you find your groups?
Ok, of course the answer is "get a guild", but how do you get a guild? Why would you apply to random guild which you know nothing about with people you do not know? I understand that this is true for very high end mythic raiding guilds, but for the rest of the player base I think the usual way is to join the guild of a person they already know and not the other way around.

Not at all. It’s very common and easy to find a guild which focus on m+ runs and then get to know the players in the guild. Most likely you’re going to like them and if not you can just go and find another guild. It’s not hard work at all and a lot of people use this simple method to find people they can play with more regularly and trust. It’s definitely not just for finding high end mythic raiding guilds anymore.

Extra: and now it doesn’t even have to be a guild anymore. With the new “community feature” you can find one that focus on m+. It’s by far the best way to find good people to play with.

[123youshowme]

@123youshowme
Your burner account might need soon a replacement.

Ah, can't prove a point so you cry to moderators.
Nothing new, basically reinforces what I know.

[clevin]

Idk how you'd track it. I think people have a right to leave if it's a total wipefest and not getting anywhere.

If I were designing the system it would not be a straight penalty system but something like a point system (a little like the infractions here).

Points are made up here just for illustration:

IF you leave after one pull, 10 points.
Leave after 5 pulls, 5 points.
Leave after 10 pulls, 0 points.

Penalty after, say, 30 or 40 points.

Points age out... after, say, 2 weeks, your point total is zeroed out.

So for the people saying "what if something IRL really forced me to leave!" or "Most of my groups are fine but what if I run into a really bad groups?" - you'd be fine. You'll get some points, but if it's really the exception for you to leave, no penalty. You leave at the drop of a hat over and over again? Penalty

"But why a penalty at all?"

Because right now the person leaving hurts the group that they leave but incurs nothing. Not even a deserter debuff. That feels unbalanced to me.

[123youshowme]

If I were designing the system it would not be a straight penalty system but something like a point system (a little like the infractions here).

Points are made up here just for illustration:

IF you leave after one pull, 10 points.
Leave after 5 pulls, 5 points.
Leave after 10 pulls, 0 points.

Penalty after, say, 30 or 40 points.

Points age out... after, say, 2 weeks, your point total is zeroed out.

So for the people saying "what if something IRL really forced me to leave!" or "Most of my groups are fine but what if I run into a really bad groups?" - you'd be fine. You'll get some points, but if it's really the exception for you to leave, no penalty. You leave at the drop of a hat over and over again? Penalty

"But why a penalty at all?"

Because right now the person leaving hurts the group that they leave but incurs nothing. Not even a deserter debuff. That feels unbalanced to me.

then don't be shit, i guess.
Or in your fantasy, can I report the group for being shit? what's the metric? Am I supposed to suffer through terrible groups, just cus? Hard pass.

They get their time wasted plus a repair bill. that's more than enough.

Thread reeks of terrible players seeking revenge because noone wanted to endure their shenanigans.

[SkagenRora]

"Should being a group that people feel the need to bail from be penalized?" Should be the proper question.

[bullseyed]

I strongly doubt the game itself would add any form of penalty but I would love for raider.io to incorporate some stat to tell me how often a player has been the first to leave a group - or something to that effect. If i'm chosing between 2 dps for a key and one guy has been the first to leave a key 8-10 times then I know who to pick.

The truth is far too few people care about others.

Right, like someone who cares about others would never stop them from leaving a key they cannot get any reward from. And they certainly wouldn't die enough times to put the timer out of reach.

- - - Updated - - -

If you want to increase your io score, search for pushing.

All groups are assumed to be push groups unless otherwise indicated. This is due to the primary purpose of M+ being to push the key.

Some groups do go the extra step to signify push, but I find that most often means the group is inexperienced, ironically.



The thing I find funniest though in this area is the "6/8M main leader" or whatever type stuff you see... when raider io addon shows your main's progression, and almost every time you see this in LFG, they're lying about their progress.

- - - Updated - - -

If I were designing the system it would not be a straight penalty system but something like a point system (a little like the infractions here).

Points are made up here just for illustration:

IF you leave after one pull, 10 points.
Leave after 5 pulls, 5 points.
Leave after 10 pulls, 0 points.

Penalty after, say, 30 or 40 points.

Points age out... after, say, 2 weeks, your point total is zeroed out.

So for the people saying "what if something IRL really forced me to leave!" or "Most of my groups are fine but what if I run into a really bad groups?" - you'd be fine. You'll get some points, but if it's really the exception for you to leave, no penalty. You leave at the drop of a hat over and over again? Penalty

"But why a penalty at all?"

Because right now the person leaving hurts the group that they leave but incurs nothing. Not even a deserter debuff. That feels unbalanced to me.

So if you want to leave, cause as many wipes as possible as quickly as possible for no penalty. Got it.

- - - Updated - - -

then don't be shit, i guess.
Or in your fantasy, can I report the group for being shit? what's the metric? Am I supposed to suffer through terrible groups, just cus? Hard pass.

They get their time wasted plus a repair bill. that's more than enough.

Thread reeks of terrible players seeking revenge because noone wanted to endure their shenanigans.

If people actually cared about completing the key, they could just 4 man it and miss the timer.

They important part is wanting to be carried.

[Aphrel]

The best solution is to get rid of the key downgrade system when a run fails tbh.
Sure, it would make it easier to push even higher for the top end players but.. does that really matter so much? Imo its even more interesting to see what players can accomplish with enough tries as opposed to how far players can get on "one try".

[clevin]

then don't be shit, i guess.
Or in your fantasy, can I report the group for being shit? what's the metric? Am I supposed to suffer through terrible groups, just cus? Hard pass.

They get their time wasted plus a repair bill. that's more than enough.

Thread reeks of terrible players seeking revenge because noone wanted to endure their shenanigans.

Jesus Christ, read the fucking post. If you're in the occasional shit group, you can leave with no penalty. If you're ALWAYS in shit groups, maybe it's you. or maybe you should find a guild or community who's up to your standards.

- - - Updated - - -

"Should being a group that people feel the need to bail from be penalized?" Should be the proper question.

They are. The get less/no loot and the key gets downgraded. Try thinking before you post next time.

- - - Updated - - -

So if you want to leave, cause as many wipes as possible as quickly as possible for no penalty. Got it.

If you're an asshole, yes. Now... do you have a better suggestion or are you just whining?
Infracted;

[bullseyed]

Just because the enemy changes doesn’t mean shit. What about LFR? LFG HC dungeons? If you leave then you get a penalty. If you want to use your logic that you can quit just because you are not getting what you signed up for, you have to include all situations in that too. It’s their logic, not mine. Moving the goal to suit your agenda doesn’t make your logic any more sound.

The equivalent to LFR for dungeons is queued normal dungeons. There is a deserter for queued normal dungeons.

Mythic raid is the equivalent for mythic + dungeons. There is no deserter for either activity.

[LanToaster]

Mythic raid is the equivalent for mythic + dungeons. There is no deserter for either activity.

With the Exception that you can Replace peopl in the MythicRaid.

To answer the Topic:
Yes, there should be a penality.
But I cant find any solution that would not be to easily Abuseable or Impact the wrong people to much.

A more feasible approach would be:
If you leave the Group, you dont get Loot and the Group can Invite another player. (Though this is also abusable)

If people actually cared about completing the key, they could just 4 man it and miss the timer.

They important part is wanting to be carried.

Yea, if a DPS leaves you might be able to 4 mann it. And then the asshat who left will get loot. That even punishes the Group who pulled through and rewards the one who Leaves.

I never finish a Dungeon when someone Leaves, I´d rather do it again one score lower.