Iranian General Sulemain and others reported killed in Baghdad airstrike

[Kellhound]

By that measure we won Vietnam

We did not invade and occupy North Vietnam. Iraq post occupation had no choice but transition to unconventional warfare because their conventional defense was smashed in short order, it was not their first choice.

- - - Updated - - -

Godwin's law (or Godwin's rule of Hitler analogies)[1][2] is an Internet adage asserting that "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1";[2][3] that is, if an online discussion (regardless of topic or scope) goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will compare someone or something to Adolf Hitler or his deeds, the point at which effectively the discussion or thread often ends. Promulgated by the American attorney and author Mike Godwin in 1990,[2] Godwin's law originally referred specifically to Usenet newsgroup discussions.[4] It is now applied to any threaded online discussion, such as Internet forums, chat rooms, and comment threads, as well as to speeches, articles, and other rhetoric[5][6] where reductio ad Hitlerum occurs.

Or in this case it is a very apt comparison that you do not want to face and are attempting to hand wave off by invoking Godwin.

[Easo]

By that same logic should we execute Kim Jong Un? how about Putin terrible guy assassinate him as well? other countries consider some of our heads of state as bad guys are you okay with them doing the same? Should every country start assassinating heads of state they think are bad guys?

You don't seem to understand the concept of Pandora's box.

And you seem to be missing my point entirely. WHAT do you do with people like him? Ignore and suffer? Act and suffer anyway?
Damned either way.

[Muajin76]

Anyone else have the feeling that the shooting down of the airliner was on purpose and not an accident?

[Edge-]

Anyone else have the feeling that the shooting down of the airliner was on purpose and not an accident?

Why? What would Iran stand to gain from that?

[Draco-Onis]

And you seem to be missing my point entirely. WHAT do you do with people like him? Ignore and suffer? Act and suffer anyway?
Damned either way.

I got your point but I don't think you got mine the same international laws that protect people like him protect our diplomats, heads of states and US personnel overseas. There are a lot of horrible people in the world most of which we are friends with Mohammed Bonesawlmin is as much of a monster as him but we don't assassinate him. There's no moral high ground to nations just risks versus rewards in this case the risks outweigh the reward. We may look at this move as the point where the US lost any ground in the middle east because 80% of the fight is PR and this is really bad middle east PR.

- - - Updated - - -

We did not invade and occupy North Vietnam. Iraq post occupation had no choice but transition to unconventional warfare because their conventional defense was smashed in short order, it was not their first choice.

I don't think you get my point conventional war is the first punch in a 100 round boxing match it doesn't determine who wins the encounter. Back in the old days where armies faced each other and this was the end of it that's when conventional warfare was the last word now it's not.

[Puupi]

Anyone else have the feeling that the shooting down of the airliner was on purpose and not an accident?

Only if the shooter was someone else than Iran. So basically if it wasn't Iranian accident it was either Russia or the US - most likely Russia.

[Muajin76]

Why? What would Iran stand to gain from that?

No idea. They are plenty pissed at the US, so who knows. I'm pretty sure Iran knew it was an airliner before launching the missile.

- - - Updated - - -

Only if the shooter was someone else than Iran. So basically if it wasn't Iranian accident it was either Russia or the US - most likely Russia.

Hope it wasn't Russia, but fingers point to Iran.

https://edition.cnn.com/middleeast/l...ion/index.html

[Edge-]

No idea. They are plenty pissed at the US, so who knows. I'm pretty sure Iran knew it was an airliner before launching the missile.

What does being pissed at the US have to do with shooting a Ukrainian plane with Ukrainian, Iranian, and Canadian passengers? I don't even think there were any Americans on board.

You're making a pretty outrageous claim with nothing to back it up, man. All evidence points towards their military fucking up and mistaking the plane for a hostile aircraft, and them frantically trying to clean up the mess and save face now.

[starlord]

No idea. They are plenty pissed at the US, so who knows. I'm pretty sure Iran knew it was an airliner before launching the missile.

- - - Updated - - -



They have proof that it was Iran that launched the Russian missiles.

https://edition.cnn.com/middleeast/l...ion/index.html

it was likely due to something called "the fog of war", where people are more prone to confusion, misinterpretation, and panicking in the midst of a conflict going on.

[Muajin76]

Iranian ambassador "A thorough investigation is underway on the incident." Why would an investigation be needed, they could simply say *oops..we didn't mean to shoot it down and are very sorry* or be like *we meant to(

- - - Updated - - -

What does being pissed at the US have to do with shooting a Ukrainian plane with Ukrainian, Iranian, and Canadian passengers? I don't even think there were any Americans on board.

You're making a pretty outrageous claim with nothing to back it up, man. All evidence points towards their military fucking up and mistaking the plane for a hostile aircraft, and them frantically trying to clean up the mess and save face now.

No Americans were on board, so it could have been accidental. and Nope..being pissed at the US has nothing to do with shooting down a Ukrainian airliner. Military fucking up.

[Edge-]

Iranian ambassador "A thorough investigation is underway on the incident." Why would an investigation be needed, they could simply say *oops..we didn't mean to shoot it down and are very sorry* or be like *we meant to(

Because they're claiming it was a "mechanical problem" to avoid taking responsibility for killing nearly 200 civilians, including their own. this is pretty straightforward stuff.

[Ihavewaffles]

Only if the shooter was someone else than Iran. So basically if it wasn't Iranian accident it was either Russia or the US - most likely Russia.

Yes, ofc it's Russia, it's always them, for instance it's their fault that Ukrainian air-force shot down Russian passenger plane Siberia Airlines Flight 1812, in 2001.

Those evil civilians were talking smack about Ukrainian missiles, so the Ukrainians had to show them what's what!

[Muajin76]

Because they're claiming it was a "mechanical problem" to avoid taking responsibility for killing nearly 200 civilians, including their own. this is pretty straightforward stuff.

Gotta love *mechanical problems + military fuck up*

[Levelfive]

Iranian ambassador "A thorough investigation is underway on the incident." Why would an investigation be needed, they could simply say *oops..we didn't mean to shoot it down and are very sorry* or be like *we meant to(

- - - Updated - - -



No Americans were on board, so it could have been accidental. and Nope..being pissed at the US has nothing to do with shooting down a Ukrainian airliner. Military fucking up.

I think they probably thought it was part of a US response to their missile strikes. It seems very unlikely they would have wanted to deliberately shoot down a passenger plane.

[Muajin76]

Yes, ofc it's Russia, it's always them, for instance it's their fault that Ukrainian air-force shot down Russian passenger plane Siberia Airlines Flight 1812, in 2001.

Those evil civilians were talking smack about Ukrainian missiles, so the Ukrainians had to show them what's what!

and here I was planning to visit Russia right after my Cambodia trip during Chinese new year. T.T
as if Russia isn't already hard to get into as an American citizen to begin with.

[Gaidax]

Anyone else have the feeling that the shooting down of the airliner was on purpose and not an accident?

No, this was a retarded accident. Iran has nothing to gain from something like this and plenty to lose.

This is the typical Middle East - people with big sticks and little training to use these.

[Themius]

ordinary people defend their war hero, so go find yourself some that aren't trump rep lobbyists that try to speak for iranians..

Who the fuck on this forum was defending him. Did you pay attention to the quote I was quoting?

[Easo]

I got your point but I don't think you got mine the same international laws that protect people like him protect our diplomats, heads of states and US personnel overseas. There are a lot of horrible people in the world most of which we are friends with Mohammed Bonesawlmin is as much of a monster as him but we don't assassinate him. There's no moral high ground to nations just risks versus rewards in this case the risks outweigh the reward. We may look at this move as the point where the US lost any ground in the middle east because 80% of the fight is PR and this is really bad middle east PR.

- - - Updated - - -



I don't think you get my point conventional war is the first punch in a 100 round boxing match it doesn't determine who wins the encounter. Back in the old days where armies faced each other and this was the end of it that's when conventional warfare was the last word now it's not.

I know, all I mean that it is a shitty situation with no good outcomes. Would be easier, of course, if the Iran was not bent of flexing muscles and having million zombies do death chants, but alas...

Just gonna add - we care more now. Carpet bombing cities and shooting everyone related to a partisan is a thing of past, mostly. Contrary to what is believed, you can defeat unconventional forces. Tamil Tigers is (were) an example of that.

[Thekri]

Anyone else have the feeling that the shooting down of the airliner was on purpose and not an accident?

No. That is crazy and conspiratorial.

Only if the shooter was someone else than Iran. So basically if it wasn't Iranian accident it was either Russia or the US - most likely Russia.

And that is even more crazy and conspiratorial. Why would Russia sneak in and shoot missiles at a passenger plane over the Iranian capital? How would they even do that? They don't have ground AA there, they would have to send a fighter to do it.

Occam's Razor here guys. It is far more likely that somebody was tired and scared, because they stayed up all night expecting to be killed by American bombers any minute. They were squinting into a radar scope for hours at a time, then they saw a blip that looked like what they had been watching for. They didn't confirm the contact, because if that had been an American Bomber at that range they only had seconds before they would be vaporized. So they fired off a desperate missile, hoping to hit it before the bomb load dropped.

But they were wrong, and a lot of people died because some scared kid made a very understandable mistake. Iran isn't copping to it right away because it is embarrassing to them as a nation and as a military, not because there was some sinister plan to murder random people on that plane.

[Muajin76]

Who the fuck on this forum was defending him. Did you pay attention to the quote I was quoting?

Maybe there are Iranians on this forum?