Who would you say is the main faction of the story?

[Jastall]

Ex-Horde characters aren't Horde. That's kinda what the "ex" part conveys. The more you know. By that metric WotLK is an Alliance expansion. The same applies a thousandfold to AU characters. But yes, if you have to count characters that have fuck all to do with the Horde like people from a whole other universe as Horde because it's convenient that way, of course you won't see how that's even arguable.




Would you look at that, you outright mentioned the Arthas example only to be inconsistent about your whole "let's count ex-faction members" shtick. Majestic.

There's an IF in that sentence precisely because I'm unconvinced that ex-members work and I outright used examples of current Horde members, with the sole exception of WoD because it as so heavily billed around interacting with old Orc heroes. Excise that from the post if it makes you feel better, the point still stands and you chose to ignore in favor of, again, immediately making things personal with an acerbic comment.

[Feanoro]

Vide Alliance players not acknowledging things like Alliance having more zones between Vanilla and WotLK which was an objective case of faction imbalance as it's something that could have been actually counted. Instead Blizzard fixing that imbalance is to this day treated as one of the biggest "proofs" of HORDE BIAS being totally real.

If you read what's been posted here plenty of times, you'd know the complaint around the zone changes is primarily focused on the quest lines and stories around them, usually involving a variant of "You lost, fuck off to the next zone". That doesn't fit your narrative though, so you'll ignore it and keep merrily twisting and mocking what people actually said, sprinkling it all with "clever" insults that somehow are allowed.

[Super Dickmann]

Depends on what you mean. In terms of stories about the faction as a faction and its dynamics with itself and the other one, the Horde. We've had two expansions around the Horde fighting itself while the Alliance spectate.

But when it comes to overall theme-ing, the Alliance. Every neutral organisation and every neutral-helmed storyline is either run by Alliance characters with a yellow tag - Velen, Khadgar, Turalyon, Magni, etc. or sports Alliance themes like heroic knights in shining armor, elven defenders of nature - Tirion, Val'sharah, etc.. The Horde has more screentime in its capacity as a faction, but what's Alliance is the default and the stories are written with the preassumption of investment in those stories.

The one time when this wasn't the case was with Thrall, and the degree of reaction that got, bad as it was, speaks volumes as to how alien it is to have the Horde and its themes and story beats in the driver's seat for a plot that isn't explicitly about the Horde.

[Kaver]

Of course the Alliance is the main faction. The Horde are playable villains.

[bowlink]

it might have started of as equal in vanilla. but as of Cataclysm horde are the main faction. Alliance is just the background on which they are painted.
We are experiencing the Moral Travel of the Horde faction. nothing more

[Super Dickmann]

And Thrall doesn't have that strong Horde themes anyway. He has EYEBROWS!

I know it's hard for me too, but set aside for a moment that we had a whole questline about beating up Thrall's mental problems and then watched him get hitched while Jaina cried in the background or that 4.2 nonsense.

What is the main Cata story, not so much the faction war stuff, but the bits with Deathwing about? It's about the elements being in imbalance and the main character being an orc needing to reconnect with his people's past and their shamanistic heritage to bring balance to the world. It's something only a shamn can do, which is a 'Horde' class in the same way paladin is an Alliance one, with shamanism being a huge deal to the Horde theoretically, but mostly being side flavor to the dwarves and draenei. And this isn't just some orc, it's the guy who was Warchief of the Horde for the entire course of the game up to that point. It's an inherently Horde-themed story, even if the guy has a yellow tag.

It's also really bad.

[Super Dickmann]

Also the real Horde theme is apparently about how orc warriors' ultimate form is actually becoming a mahou shoujo

This isn't even their final form.

I just don't see why people would be pissed about things they don't know. Nope, what they WERE pissed about was not the Horde themes, it was Aggra's baby bump overshadowing the end of the Aspects.

They were pissed off because there was nothing to relate to. If you were Horde, Thrall was no longer part of the faction and him being Superman had nothing to do to his faux-Moses noblesavage appeal, but you at least hypothetically had an existing interest in his spirit quest and making him better when he got a stroke because he was a character you were invested in. If you were Alliance, you were helping this guy who you had no interaction with while there was an Alliance-Horde war going on, being his therapist and helping him marry while in his brain he was yelling about how he was going to fuck your shit up. This during an expansion where the Alliance were generally on the losing end and where their Thrall-equivalent, Malf, is busy holding a single tornado while the Horde grab half of Ashenvale.

Yes, and Aggra was pretty dire too, but she's just such a massive nonentity that I couldn't bring myself to even get annoyed at her. I even went back to check over her appearances when you brought her up and she only exists to assure us that Green Jesus isn't playing for the other team.

[Syegfryed]

The one time when this wasn't the case was with Thrall, and the degree of reaction that got, bad as it was, speaks volumes as to how alien it is to have the Horde and its themes and story beats in the driver's seat for a plot that isn't explicitly about the Horde.

and even with that he was still a sidekick with other aspects, who surprise, were all just assuming alliance races apeparences, flying in the alliance ship, he didn't get the kill alone with us like Tirion with Arthas.

And even that expansion had the same amount of "alliance" focus with Malfurion and firelands, people rly like to bitch about everything

[Blackmist]

I don't think the problem is that one is the "main faction" of the story.

The problem is appalling story telling, and specifically only telling one side certain things. For example, what the fuck was going on at Uldir? As an Alliance player, I'd have to play a horde toon to max level to find out...

[Soulwind]

The Horde is an active antagonist, as they make the choices, but those choices lead to conflict. The Alliance is a reactive protagonist, they don't make the choices, but they solve the conflict.

The Horde is the "main character" in the same way Thanos was in Infinity War.

[VladlTutushkin]

The Horde is an active antagonist, as they make the choices, but those choices lead to conflict. The Alliance is a reactive protagonist, they don't make the choices, but they solve the conflict.

The Horde is the "main character" in the same way Thanos was in Infinity War.

The thing is - Alliance dosent “solve” anything. They just tag along as Horde fights Horde and then wag a finger at whatever faction that wins the civil war.

[Amarys]

Humans. Everything else is background noise.

Id say orcs and humans.. as it should be. Both have the most major lore character and most important events center around orcs and humans.

[Syegfryed]

Khadgar is half-quel'dorei, Alexstrasza is quel'dorei, and I think Nozdormu is so too.

I know it's painful to remember but the blood elves are part of the Horde and as you all keep repeating, high elves don't exist as an Alliance race.

Khadgar?

Ysera is night elf, Kalegos(?) is human, Nozdormu is half-elf(sort) Alextraza is so thick she is almost a night elf except in color

- - - Updated - - -

Id say orcs and humans.. as it should be. Both have the most major lore character and most important events center around orcs and humans.

coming from the game warcraft: orcs and humans, and both factions and te major conflicts being created and centered around then, kinda explain why

besides, those days we are far away of that, and perhaps is the reason why lore went downhill

[Syegfryed]

Yes sorry, Kalecgos. He is half-elf, not human. Only Ysera is Night Elf.

he have human model, human clothes, a human to me... the only half elf i can see is nozdormu

even Dath wing and Nefarianw ere humans too, all dragons either go elf with blue-eyes or human

[Varodoc]

Horde, no doubt. Even back when Varian was High King, the Alliance still was relegated to sidekick at best, while the Horde got all the love and the attention.

Boy, I sure did love using a small cat to spy on the barricades outside of Orgrimmar while the Horde player was literally marching on Razor Hill with an army at their back.

[bowlink]

Horde, no doubt. Even back when Varian was High King, the Alliance still was relegated to sidekick at best, while the Horde got all the love and the attention.

Boy, I sure did love using a small cat to spy on the barricades outside of Orgrimmar while the Horde player was literally marching on Razor Hill with an army at their back.

Or the time we get into a plane with a webcomic character and it fades to black. while the horde gets to fly in on a flying armada.

Yea blizzard is never gonna live that down.

[Varodoc]

Or the time we get into a plane with a webcomic character and it fades to black. while the horde gets to fly in on a flying armada.

Yea blizzard is never gonna live that down.

Or BfA which is blatantly pandering to Forsaken fanboys, as if the Burning of Teldrassil and the travesty that are Undead NELFs wasn't clear enough.

[Feanoro]

But when it comes to overall theme-ing, the Alliance. Every neutral organisation and every neutral-helmed storyline is either run by Alliance characters with a yellow tag - Velen, Khadgar, Turalyon, Magni, etc. or sports Alliance themes like heroic knights in shining armor, elven defenders of nature - Tirion, Val'sharah, etc.. The Horde has more screentime in its capacity as a faction, but what's Alliance is the default and the stories are written with the preassumption of investment in those stories.

Then maybe the Horde fans should demand something other than "RAWR ME KILL PUNY ALLIANCE".

[VladlTutushkin]

Or BfA which is blatantly pandering to Forsaken fanboys, as if the Burning of Teldrassil and the travesty that are Undead NELFs wasn't clear enough.

Whole undead night elfs plot was made solely to rub the salt into fresh wounds and enrage/depress the community. And then they baited and switched and forced us to forgive and forget. Yeah, dosent look like literally using development “power” to troll Alliance players.

- - - Updated - - -

Then maybe the Horde fans should demand something other than "RAWR ME KILL PUNY ALLIANCE".

Thats the problem though - they only demand frothing warmongers (okay maybe just warhawks) and complete “nationalists” (no i am not drawing nazi parallels here) who would never breathe the same air with Alliance character. BUT to save the world we need both factions to somehow cooperate so... Blizz are forced to use Alliance-related characters because they at least will tolerate Horde and work with them for the sake of Azeroth.

[bowlink]

Whole undead night elfs plot was made solely to rub the salt into fresh wounds and enrage/depress the community. And then they baited and switched and forced us to forgive and forget. Yeah, dosent look like literally using development “power” to troll Alliance players.

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Thats the problem though - they only demand frothing warmongers (okay maybe just warhawks) and complete “nationalists” (no i am not drawing nazi parallels here) who would never breathe the same air with Alliance character. BUT to save the world we need both factions to somehow cooperate so... Blizz are forced to use Alliance-related characters because they at least will tolerate Horde and work with them for the sake of Azeroth.

Blizzard should bring back Sky-Admiral Catherine Rogers. make her depose Anduin like some Oliver Cromwell Archetype, with less beheading the king ofcoarse.