Patch 8.3 PTR - New Auction House Interface and Updates

[|Dexter|]

time to delete my AH addons

[Rucati]

Feel free to remain ignorant then. Not really my problem if you choose to not educate yourself on very simple mechanics.

You're the one who chose to engage with me over something you clearly misunderstand.

You didn't answer my question. If I post something for 5000g and it doesn't sell for a week, and then I post it at 4000g the next week and it won't sell, and I post it at 3000g the week after and it finally sells, did the price drop because I was undercutting myself? Or did the price drop because nobody was ever willing to pay more than 3000g. Of course, you didn't answer because we both know it would prove you wrong, it's okay.

[Rucati]

Yes, you undercut yourself. You had no reason to drop that price except your own want. No one forced you.

The demand forced me. There was literally no demand for my item, so I was forced to drop the price until it got low enough for someone to be interested in it. I wasn't undercutting myself, I was finding the demand. That's literally how all of economics works. Linen cloth isn't selling for 20 silver because it started at 5 million gold and people undercut each other to get there, it's selling for 20 silver because that's all anyone will pay for it. You're starting to make my brain hurt though so I'm giving up now, I guess you can count that as a win if you want. Next patch when the AH changes make undercutting irrelevant and prices still continue to fall exactly the same as they always have though we can both look back on this and laugh.

[Rucati]

Yet.

Once again, the key qualifier you are missing. There was nothing forcing you to drop the price. The demand hadn't come yet.

lol keep trying, it's kind of funny in a sad sort of way.

[therealbowser]

Sure I am used to how things used to be, but TBH, anything that screws over those morons who think it's funny to post 50 pages of true iron ore or whatever at 1 stack each is extremely welcome by me.

- - - Updated - - -

AH changes are always welcome to me.

I found the "no need to undercut" a bit silly though, since selling the item faster would be the main reason to undercut today and that doesn't change with this new system.

The main thing is this. There are people who list like a stack of 200 of an item that is a little expensive that high, and people only want a few pieces. In this case, as a seller, I can list substantially higher and still sell because people want stacks of 10-20, not stacks of 200. In this case, the undercutting will be forced and more severe.

Overall it's not going to make a big impact on things, and as I implied when I posted previously, it's worth the risk to clean up the auction house. By far.

[Rucati]

I mean, if you like being proven wrong I'll gladly keep doing it.

This is nothing short of a leisurely activity for me, and you're clearly backed against a corner with no idea what you're talking about. I'm all ears on how you'd like to explain your incorrect opinion away this time.

I've already explained multiple times, you're too dense to get it, it's no longer worth the effort. Next week when the AH changes happens and the economy operates EXACTLY the same as it always has, you can come back and tell me I was right. See you in a week.

[Rucati]

And I've explained away what you claim is how economics work. So unless you have something else beyond a vague, incorrect understanding of economics, I'm afraid you have no leg to stand on.

And sure, but I don't know what you hope to accomplish in a week. It will take several weeks after launch for things to start to change at all. But that's just your ignorant side showing again, I guess.

You could wait a week, a month, a year, it doesn't matter. What you're saying is hands down the dumbest thing I've ever heard, so much so that I told a friend and he couldn't believe you were serious either.

I wish you were right, I'd love to sell every item for millions of gold each, would make the game way more interesting. Unfortunately that will never happen.

[Malekius]

I sincerely had to log in and at least share a laugh at this trainwreck of a discussion going on here.

I hope this Fleugen dude tries to sell his old car for a million dollars one day, to then hear it's not worth that much and that the buyer would only pay 10 thousand, just to hear him say "I'm not willing to drop the price from a million. I'll keep the price at a million until the day someone wants to buy it for a million.".

Whoever said some people need at least a basic economics class was 100% right.

[Sezh]

Wrong. In your example, Seller 7 can list his item at 19g, and his items will still be first sold. He lost 1c for literally no reason.

When you post, it puts you to the FRONT of the queue, not the back.

The mistake you make is believing people are intelligent and rational. Example: People make some crafted items, gathering mats costing say 400g. They go to the AH and see the items sells at around 450g. They post them at 449g. They don't sell immediatly because a new guy shows up listing his items at 448g. Next day, they post the items for 300g to get a quick sell. Some items are sold, but not all. Next guy comes along, do you think they look at the prices in the list? Do you think they think "Hmm, only a few items cost 300g, completely ignoring that they made a loss then there's a ton of items at ~450g. I should buy the cheap ones and re-sell them for profit." Nope. They post their items for 299g and suddenly a new "standard" price is created. Does this new system really prevent people with this mentality (which is the vast, vast majority) from doing this?

[tyrlaan]

My big takeaway here is that people are stupid, so undercutting will still happen on profession materials because they don't understand how the new system works.

Fortunately for those of us who understand how the new system works, this will have no net impact compared to how it works today anyway.

[Amnaught]

I feel like a better solution to FILO would be as simple as restricting the amount that you can undercut. 10% undercut or greater, problem solved.

Also: Could someone please confirm or deny whether or not it's intended that we can't ctrl+click to view the appearance of transmog from the new Auction House? Because that's a pretty significant change...

[Rucati]

I'm still confused where you're getting this idea that I ever suggested anyone could sell anything for millions of gold.

You said the only reason prices ever drop is because of undercutting. Therefore as long as the first person posts an item at 5 million gold the price will never fall under that because there's no more undercutting in 8.3, so next patch every item will be worth millions on the AH as long as that's what it is first posted for.

Hopefully Blizzard uses real world economics for their design and not the fantasy economics you seem to believe in. Luckily it seems that's the case.

[Rucati]

Yeah, this is what I mean by ridiculous hyperbole. This is why the conversation is going nowhere, because you can't seem to hold a thought for longer than a second without descending into utter madness.

It isn't hyperbole at all. According to you prices can't drop in the next patch, so whatever people post for will be the price for the rest of all time or until they change the AH again. You literally said the only thing that drops prices is undercutting, which is being removed, so now prices will never drop. Unless, of course, you realize how fucking stupid that sounds and realize that undercutting has virtually nothing to do with why prices go down over time. Unfortunately you don't seem to be intelligent enough to realize that.

[Rucati]

This is all you're worth at this point, just reposting until you answer. (Or go back and read and realize what a dumbass you've been, but really, I don't expect you to have any modicum of self-reflection in you.)

I'm not even reading what you write because I already know it's going to be retarded. I knew that the minute you tried to tell me undercutting drives the market, you know just like it does literally nowhere else in existence. But please, spend hours typing me more essays so I can ignore them and laugh at you like I have been the last three days. And then come back and tell me I was right when nothing changes in the future.

[Rucati]

/10lessundercuts

Thought I should let you know Veiled Crystals started at 380g each on my server after reset and are already down under 200g each.

Really weird how what I said would happen did, and what you said would happen was complete nonsense. If you could just admit you're wrong now that'd be great.

[Rucati]

You truly are a very dense person.

Hmm, the patch came out and exactly what I said would happen did, and now you're not even man enough to admit you were completely wrong.

I feel really bad for you, honestly.

[Rucati]

To be honest, the idea you thought this was anything more than a "let's wait and see" experiment is amusing at best - But you seem genuinely hurt by the idea that I don't care even if I'm wrong. No, really - It's ok.

Believe it or not, I never considered myself a psychic. A huge shock - I know.

The fact that you argued for days that the market would stay high because undercutting was no longer required is even more amusing I promise. My friends and I all laughed quite a lot when I told them some idiot thought undercutting controlled the market.
.
You didn't consider yourself a psychic, but you spent days saying you were right? That sounds exceptionally stupid, which is par for the course with you I guess. You wouldn't argue so much if you weren't certain about it.

This also still has nothing to do with the idea that first in, last out is an awful idea

This sentence doesn't make any sense at all in any context. We were never even talking about last in first out, we were talking about undercutting. Besides, first in last out was their only choice because otherwise everyone would continue undercutting by 1 copper over and over (the thing you thought controlled the market) which is what Blizzard was trying to avoid (because it has no impact on the market).

Now if you'd be so kind as to admit you haven't the slightest idea what you're talking about we could all move on and you could stop looking so foolish. But I suspect you'll double down here and bring up more unrelated topics. Hey have you ever heard the expression "It's better to appear stupid than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"? Because I think it's quite fitting for you at this point.

[Rucati]

If this is all you're looking for, I promise you - You'll have a lot more success doing literally anything else.

Both because:

1) I haven't been proven wrong.
2) Even if I eventually am proven wrong, I most certainly am not going to keep coming back to this thread. I'm fine with being wrong - But even if I am, I most certainly wouldn't talk to you about it.

And as amusing as it has been, watching you ignore facts and repeatedly post real life economics as if they have any bearing on in-game economics - I think this is where I jump off the crazy train and get back to life.

You most certainly have not provided anything worth thinking about, so au revoir random internet stranger. I'll remember you never.

1) You have been proven wrong. You literally said prices wouldn't start going down anymore because Blizzard removed the need for undercutting, and then you went on to say even IF prices start going down it will takes weeks, not days. Then the patch came out and prices started high and immediately tanked over the course of two days exactly like I said they would and exactly like you argued they wouldn't. If that isn't you being proven completely and utterly wrong I have no idea what is.

2) You've been coming back to this thread nonstop, so I see no reason to think you wouldn't continue to do that. As sad as it is, it seems like you really wanted people to believe your completely idiotic idea.

Even though you refuse to admit it I guess it's pretty obvious you know you look stupid so now you have to try and bail to save face. It's alright, maybe next time you have a completely idiotic thought you won't say it in a public space, and then if you do you won't argue for days about it when it's very clearly wrong.