Corrupted Hunter Bow in 8.3

[DazManianDevil]

Have any of you been able to get one of these and test it? Per the phrasing on Wowhead;
"Whispering Eldritch Bow: Your auto-shots reduce the remaining cooldown of a random Hunter ability by 1.0 sec."
This could sadly mean a few things.

For sake of example, BM Hunter impact.
If this bow can affect Kill Command and or Barbed shot, this would completely handle 3stack Pet Frenzy drought and smooth the dps floor nicely.
However, both of these skills aren't actually cooldown based, they're recharge based.
If this bow only affects Bestial Wrath, Aspect of the Wild/Turtle/Cheetah, Disengage and Exhilaration and Traps I don't see it as being all that impactful given that the weapon stats are garbage.

If any of you have/know of someone who has tested it I'd appreciate the input or speculation, don't wanna blow my reroll coins week 1 for a bow that doesn't pay off.
Happy hunting!

[keygy]

Have any of you been able to get one of these and test it? Per the phrasing on Wowhead;
"Whispering Eldritch Bow: Your auto-shots reduce the remaining cooldown of a random Hunter ability by 1.0 sec."
This could sadly mean a few things.

For sake of example, BM Hunter impact.
If this bow can affect Kill Command and or Barbed shot, this would completely handle 3stack Pet Frenzy drought and smooth the dps floor nicely.
However, both of these skills aren't actually cooldown based, they're recharge based.
If this bow only affects Bestial Wrath, Aspect of the Wild/Turtle/Cheetah, Disengage and Exhilaration and Traps I don't see it as being all that impactful given that the weapon stats are garbage.

If any of you have/know of someone who has tested it I'd appreciate the input or speculation, don't wanna blow my reroll coins week 1 for a bow that doesn't pay off.
Happy hunting!

em..kill command is cd based, and barbed shot have a recarge system but each stack of the ability have a cd to be recharged, why not gonna affect?

[FelPlague]

Have any of you been able to get one of these and test it? Per the phrasing on Wowhead;
"Whispering Eldritch Bow: Your auto-shots reduce the remaining cooldown of a random Hunter ability by 1.0 sec."
This could sadly mean a few things.

For sake of example, BM Hunter impact.
If this bow can affect Kill Command and or Barbed shot, this would completely handle 3stack Pet Frenzy drought and smooth the dps floor nicely.
However, both of these skills aren't actually cooldown based, they're recharge based.
If this bow only affects Bestial Wrath, Aspect of the Wild/Turtle/Cheetah, Disengage and Exhilaration and Traps I don't see it as being all that impactful given that the weapon stats are garbage.

If any of you have/know of someone who has tested it I'd appreciate the input or speculation, don't wanna blow my reroll coins week 1 for a bow that doesn't pay off.
Happy hunting!

Recharge=cd

if an ability has a timer between when it can be used
thats a CD.
the only things not effected are things with no cd's that just cost resource, or are just spammable.
like chaos bolt, no cooldown, incinerate no coldown, just mana/shard cost.

[CrawlFromThePit]

Have any of you been able to get one of these and test it? Per the phrasing on Wowhead;
"Whispering Eldritch Bow: Your auto-shots reduce the remaining cooldown of a random Hunter ability by 1.0 sec."
This could sadly mean a few things.

For sake of example, BM Hunter impact.
If this bow can affect Kill Command and or Barbed shot, this would completely handle 3stack Pet Frenzy drought and smooth the dps floor nicely.
However, both of these skills aren't actually cooldown based, they're recharge based.
If this bow only affects Bestial Wrath, Aspect of the Wild/Turtle/Cheetah, Disengage and Exhilaration and Traps I don't see it as being all that impactful given that the weapon stats are garbage.

If any of you have/know of someone who has tested it I'd appreciate the input or speculation, don't wanna blow my reroll coins week 1 for a bow that doesn't pay off.
Happy hunting!

An ability that you can do all the time assuming you have enough ressource is an ability not affected by this. Everything that becomes unusable because of any form of time restriction IS a cooldown. Kill command, barbed shot, bestial wrath, turtle thing, feign death, traps, all the same, all cooldown based, all affected by the bow's effect.

[Khallid]

Since it's an effect on a weapon it shouldn't really work on defensives, because that would instantly make it worthless, but you never know. I would expect it to be weak for BM even if it doesn't affect defensives/utility.

1 second off of Kill Command sounds good, since my current cooldown is like 6 seconds. So that's significant, although easy to waste if you cast Cobra Shot at the same time and end up wasting it.

Barbed Shot could also be decent. More Barbed Shot means more Dance of Death, so that's potentially good.

But 1 second off of Aspect of the Wild sounds completely useless, since it won't really increase the total amount of times I get to use it in the entire fight.

Bestial Wrath may not be worth either, since you often end up wasting a few seconds from the last cd reduction of Barbed Shot. You can't always line up refreshing 3 stacks with BW cooldown reduction.

So overall, I don't have high hopes for it.

It could potentially work a bit better for Marksmanship. Aimed Shot and Rapid Fire are strong skills, worth getting some CD reduction. Although Rapid Fire can also be wasted if you get the proc that gives you a free one (I forgot the name of the Azerite trait that does this).

Trueshot could have a similar issue of not reducing it enough to get an extra cast. But Trueshot is also more powerful than individual BM cooldowns. So if you can get just one more cast of Trueshot then it could be useful.

[Eapoe]

Since it's an effect on a weapon it shouldn't really work on defensives, because that would instantly make it worthless, but you never know. I would expect it to be weak for BM even if it doesn't affect defensives/utility.

1 second off of Kill Command sounds good, since my current cooldown is like 6 seconds. So that's significant, although easy to waste if you cast Cobra Shot at the same time and end up wasting it.

Barbed Shot could also be decent. More Barbed Shot means more Dance of Death, so that's potentially good.

But 1 second off of Aspect of the Wild sounds completely useless, since it won't really increase the total amount of times I get to use it in the entire fight.

Bestial Wrath may not be worth either, since you often end up wasting a few seconds from the last cd reduction of Barbed Shot. You can't always line up refreshing 3 stacks with BW cooldown reduction.

So overall, I don't have high hopes for it.

It could potentially work a bit better for Marksmanship. Aimed Shot and Rapid Fire are strong skills, worth getting some CD reduction. Although Rapid Fire can also be wasted if you get the proc that gives you a free one (I forgot the name of the Azerite trait that does this).

Trueshot could have a similar issue of not reducing it enough to get an extra cast. But Trueshot is also more powerful than individual BM cooldowns. So if you can get just one more cast of Trueshot then it could be useful.

Until someone gets one to test, we won’t know; however, going by previous experience, there was a set bonus or a trinket that had the same effect of “loading a random Hunter CD by 1 second,” and it did actually apply to defensive s.
The bow seems kind of shitty by comparison to other classes getting straight throughput increases. That’s not to say it will be bad, but if the effect applies to defensives it makes me feel bad for using them, as well as the old MM problem with getting an extra TS during the start of the xpac where if you get one it’s a great thing, but if you don’t then it is wasted slots.

[Turtel]

I don't think it matters whether it applies to defensives or not; if the proc rate is high enough then it could be a very powerful DPS effect on top of providing additional utility (kind of like how Prydaz ended up being BiS for MM late in Legion). The question is whether the proc rate is 'high enough', which isn't something that is going to be revealed by playing around with the weapon ingame; we'd need to wait for sims to come out.

EDIT: I just looked at the weapon, it's a 100% proc rate on every auto-shot, which seems quite low (at least when considering that most of the time it won't apply to something impactful).

[DazManianDevil]

Thanks for the feedback guys, I'll probably do myself a favor and just bonus roll this sucker week 1 of heroic and test it myself (which is a very, very small sample size and only valuable if it's ahead of simcraft ) since there isn't a heck of a lot of good raid loot anyway until N'zoth himself.

Side note, on PTR last night I got a pair of shoes for my Warlock that had the Hour of Devastation rank 3 on 'em, which is the 2 handed sword corrupted affix iirc.
Rank 3 was 18% of HP as damage, on shoes. Yikes. (Incinerate casts did proc it, about 2 PPM. Big ol black tornado of Naruto Anime flames that travels 25 yards forward, did 58k damage non-crit in crap gear)
Maybe this bow affix will show up on armor? I could see stacking this being absurd. Say, 3 seconds of CDR every auto, which will be around 2.5 seconds without any haste proc?
Good bye killer cobra, KC has no cooldown

[TOM_RUS]

This thing got buffed, now gives 2 sec CD reduction, up from 1.

[DazManianDevil]

This thing got buffed, now gives 2 sec CD reduction, up from 1.

Yeah I noticed that today whilst derping around. I have a feeling hitting 20% raw Haste may be a thing, just to manipulate a 2.5 auto timer outside of Haste windows. 33% for 2.0 won't be attainable without hardcore corruption stacking me thinks.
Can't wait for some proper math wizards on this one, even the DragonScale which looked awful apparently has a 3ppm which makes it rather appealing.

[Dracodraco]

Message from the proper math wizards: In a scenario where you *DO NOT* use any defensives, it is a competitive option that beats most other effects after this most recent buff.

In a real world scenario it is a lot more questionable, especially because you will likely have your utility/defensive spells on CD quite a lot *due* to corruption; Disengage+Posthaste breaks the slow, trap/feign death counters the thing from beyond, and 100% mobility makes it possible for BM to stack more corruption than any other class purely based on "what can they handle being thrown at them". But the more we have to use our utility and defensive tools to counter higher corruption, the less useful the bow becomes.

(also yes it procs on literally ANY hunter spell - even shit like Flare).

[Khallid]

(also yes it procs on literally ANY hunter spell - even shit like Flare).

Wow that sounds horrible xD

I tend to use Disengage all the time, so that's quite bad.

[DazManianDevil]

Message from the proper math wizards: In a scenario where you *DO NOT* use any defensives, it is a competitive option that beats most other effects after this most recent buff.

In a real world scenario it is a lot more questionable, especially because you will likely have your utility/defensive spells on CD quite a lot *due* to corruption; Disengage+Posthaste breaks the slow, trap/feign death counters the thing from beyond, and 100% mobility makes it possible for BM to stack more corruption than any other class purely based on "what can they handle being thrown at them". But the more we have to use our utility and defensive tools to counter higher corruption, the less useful the bow becomes.

(also yes it procs on literally ANY hunter spell - even shit like Flare).

So what the proper math wizards are saying is, double it.
If PTR testing makes it to live, this effect will show up on armor pieces. (My warlock got rank 3 Twilight Devastation on a pair of shoes, which is the 2handed str sword effect from Nzoth).
I really want to play around with this, but I can see a world where this corruption affix really only starts to get used to parse farm bosses, like we're already seeing in Mythic EP.
Sadly the "better" corruption to stack will likely be that juicy Mastery proc, as it's so overstatted our KC will hit like a truck with high crit and animal companion, without sacrificing the current Thrill of the Hunt playstyle. iirc a 3x stacked Mastery affix will give 2955 mastery for 10 seconds at less than 45 corruption? That's 1.5 Primal Instincts!
*Brain explodes with napkin math*

[Dracodraco]

So what the proper math wizards are saying is, double it.
If PTR testing makes it to live, this effect will show up on armor pieces. (My warlock got rank 3 Twilight Devastation on a pair of shoes, which is the 2handed str sword effect from Nzoth).

No. There's 6 affixes that has not showed up on anything but the designated weapons so far. This is one of them (it's hunter specific - it'd be very akward to have it proc for other specs).

I really want to play around with this, but I can see a world where this corruption affix really only starts to get used to parse farm bosses, like we're already seeing in Mythic EP.
Sadly the "better" corruption to stack will likely be that juicy Mastery proc, as it's so overstatted our KC will hit like a truck with high crit and animal companion, without sacrificing the current Thrill of the Hunt playstyle. iirc a 3x stacked Mastery affix will give 2955 mastery for 10 seconds at less than 45 corruption? That's 1.5 Primal Instincts!
*Brain explodes with napkin math*

What? No. Jesus. Fuck no. Mastery is our worst stat. Why would you think that'd be the best to get? Right now the stupidly-buffed Infinite stars is the best (but there's not a chance it goes live like this for us), and after that, it's crit% because crit is our best stat. Our worst stat doesn't suddenly become good just because you get a lot of it.

Stop doing napkin math. Start using your brain.

[DazManianDevil]

No. There's 6 affixes that has not showed up on anything but the designated weapons so far. This is one of them (it's hunter specific - it'd be very akward to have it proc for other specs).



What? No. Jesus. Fuck no. Mastery is our worst stat. Why would you think that'd be the best to get? Right now the stupidly-buffed Infinite stars is the best (but there's not a chance it goes live like this for us), and after that, it's crit% because crit is our best stat. Our worst stat doesn't suddenly become good just because you get a lot of it.

Stop doing napkin math. Start using your brain.

Again, my point is fairly anecdotal at this stage. Mathematically it doesn't matter how bad a stat is, if you have enough of it over another it simply does more damage.
We will reach an effective crit cap, especially since current sims don't show anything in the game outscaling Razorcoral except maybe the Ra Den 2 set.
At the point of reaching a soft crit cap, another stat WILL take its place, that's always been true. Crit notoriously has a diminishing returns effect when applied to law of averages.
Yes Mastery is bad, and I actually totally forgot about the Stars being buffed through the teeth. With that being said, considering 48-52% of our current damage is our pet, Mastery isn't bad once other breakpoints are met (Unless Vers just straight out scales it and in that case, I'll concede the point)
Once we have all the numbers, the math will speak for itself. It'll boil down to "How much corruption can I stack in a meaningful way with the most RoI."

Napkin math is just for discussion sake. Apologies for the rambling response.

[Dracodraco]

Again, my point is fairly anecdotal at this stage. Mathematically it doesn't matter how bad a stat is, if you have enough of it over another it simply does more damage.

But your point is dumb because we get more effective stats from other sources. Mastery isn't an outlier, and it's our worst stat. It's not even *high* on the list. It's middle. https://pastebin.com/LX7tTkjC Here you go.

We will reach an effective crit cap, especially since current sims don't show anything in the game outscaling Razorcoral except maybe the Ra Den 2 set.
At the point of reaching a soft crit cap, another stat WILL take its place, that's always been true. Crit notoriously has a diminishing returns effect when applied to law of averages.

We are not getting to a crit cap in any reasonable amount of gear, especially after they changed the percentage modifiers from being multiplicative to additive. Even then, when we DID test that, it was *haste* that went ballistic (like we all *already knew* it would, because haste is extremely strong and has great interaction WITH crit for BM). Mastery simply does not have any sort of interaction to help it scale *at all*.

Yes Mastery is bad, and I actually totally forgot about the Stars being buffed through the teeth. With that being said, considering 48-52% of our current damage is our pet, Mastery isn't bad once other breakpoints are met (Unless Vers just straight out scales it and in that case, I'll concede the point)
Once we have all the numbers, the math will speak for itself. It'll boil down to "How much corruption can I stack in a meaningful way with the most RoI."

It doesn't matter how many percentages of our damage our pets do. Know what does 100% of our damage? Player+Pet. Know which stats affect both the player and the pet? Crit. Know which thing causes more procs that keeps the buffs going that makes us do damage? Crits. Know what causes more crits if crit is already stupid high? Hitting more often in a shorter amount of time. Know what has *zero* interaction in causing us to proc our buffs more? Mastery and Vers.

Napkin math is just for discussion sake. Apologies for the rambling response.

The issue here is that you're not discussing. You're just saying random stuff that you think might sound clever without having even bothered to look into how the class works, and what makes it do damage/scale well. You just see "oh pets do a lot of dmg, I get a big KC crit with lots of mastery, must be hyuuuge". That's annoying. It doesn't take long to do a little research if you want to participate.

[FelPlague]

Message from the proper math wizards: In a scenario where you *DO NOT* use any defensives, it is a competitive option that beats most other effects after this most recent buff.

In a real world scenario it is a lot more questionable, especially because you will likely have your utility/defensive spells on CD quite a lot *due* to corruption; Disengage+Posthaste breaks the slow, trap/feign death counters the thing from beyond, and 100% mobility makes it possible for BM to stack more corruption than any other class purely based on "what can they handle being thrown at them". But the more we have to use our utility and defensive tools to counter higher corruption, the less useful the bow becomes.

(also yes it procs on literally ANY hunter spell - even shit like Flare).

Question is.
is it reducing the cooldown of your defencives really that bad?

Cause isnt it better if your cooldowns come off faster, yes its a weapon that can have less throughput, but more survivability.

on a fight where you need to use your cooldowns to stay alive, this will make that easier.
on a fighter where you dont, and you can just dps, that will make this stronger!

- - - Updated - - -

Wow that sounds horrible xD

I tend to use Disengage all the time, so that's quite bad.

so
1. dont use it
2. or use it all the time and now you move around super quick!

[Dracodraco]

Question is.
is it reducing the cooldown of your defencives really that bad?

Cause isnt it better if your cooldowns come off faster, yes its a weapon that can have less throughput, but more survivability.

on a fight where you need to use your cooldowns to stay alive, this will make that easier.
on a fighter where you dont, and you can just dps, that will make this stronger!

If you're willing to sacrifice raw damage for survivability, sure. The bow is still less DPS than a +10 ilvl higher Nzoth bow and a 12% crit corruption that has zero loss from using defensive abilities. You've used both best case scenarios here - what about a fight where you don't need to use your cooldowns to stay alive more often than they're actually available, but still need to use them? EG, Orgozoa, you can feign every arcing lightning for duck and cover purposes to help healers, as well as disengage out to position at max distance every time, but you don't need to reduce the CD of those two abilities any further to accomplish this.

[FelPlague]

If you're willing to sacrifice raw damage for survivability, sure. The bow is still less DPS than a +10 ilvl higher Nzoth bow and a 12% crit corruption that has zero loss from using defensive abilities. You've used both best case scenarios here - what about a fight where you don't need to use your cooldowns to stay alive more often than they're actually available, but still need to use them? EG, Orgozoa, you can feign every arcing lightning for duck and cover purposes to help healers, as well as disengage out to position at max distance every time, but you don't need to reduce the CD of those two abilities any further to accomplish this.

Doesnt this bow for example allow the permanent 3x barb shot?
which in theory would be an INSANE dps increase?

[Dracodraco]

Doesnt this bow for example allow the permanent 3x barb shot?
which in theory would be an INSANE dps increase?

We already have an incredibly high uptime on that. What makes you say it'd be an insane DPS increase to increase it slightly? I'm curious.