Are Americans more likely to be pro-employer rather than pro-employees?

[Deathknightish]

Of course you are paid enough. If you weren't, then get a different job.

If you can't live on a full-time employment, you aren't getting enough, like some fast food restaurant workers can't in the U.S.

Quite a chunk of people are stuck on that level of work. Either because of them not being smart enough, injury or other reasons. Those people need to be able to live on their wage.

That's why people who are stuck flippin' burgers in my country earn well enough in my country on their job at McDonalds, compared to the U.S where people who are stuck on that level need 2 or even 3 jobs to make due.

I haven't looked at the latest numbers in the U.S, but how much does a McDonalds worker earn nowadays? Here in Sweden it's around 22000 SEK a month, or about 2315 dollars.

[Combatbutler]

And your goal is to get more than you believe you are worth. In the end, you both settle on an agreed-upon price, and you both agree that is how much you are worth.

As if such a price would remain static, experience is worth money as well, only a fool would settle for a fixed price and never strive for more.

[Machismo]

If you can't live on a full-time employment, you aren't getting enough, like some fast food restaurant workers can't in the U.S.

Quite a chunk of people are stuck on that level of work. Either because of them not being smart enough, injury or other reasons. Those people need to be able to live on their wage.

That's why people who are stuck flippin' burgers in my country earn well enough in my country on their job at McDonalds, compared to the U.S where people who are stuck on that level need 2 or even 3 jobs to make due.

I haven't looked at the latest numbers in the U.S, but how much does a McDonalds worker earn nowadays? Here in Sweden it's around 22000 SEK a month, or about 2315 dollars.

Then, don't take a job that pays less than you think you are worth, and don't shop any any company who pays their employees in such a manner.

Problem solved.

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As if such a price would remain static, experience is worth money as well, only a fool would settle for a fixed price and never strive for more.

great, then you can simply get a new job, or demand a raise.

[Combatbutler]

great, then you can simply get a new job, or demand a raise.

But you know what else you can do, if your employer decides not to pay, but can easily afford it? You get together with the others and organize against the employer.

[Machismo]

But you know what else you can do, if your employer decides not to pay, but can easily afford it? You get together with the others and organize against the employer.

Great, form a union, just keep the government out of it.

[Elegiac]

Useless Europeans wish they made what U.S citizens make in a year. I make easy $117k a year without a sweat. You on the other hand have to pay 50% taxes or more because of your social security programs.

The EU is more of a retirement home than actual job growth or economy growth place.

Oh my god I don't get to spend most of my waking life working to the bone for someone else until the day I die in the breakroom as a Wal-Mart greeter.

[Deathknightish]

That's not true at all. I work in a factory and make around that, someone working in McDonald's flipping burgers don't get the same pay as me.

It is true. I used to work at McDonalds during my first years of working. Now, the normal wage was around 100 SEK per hour, which translates to around 17 000 SEK a month, working the normal 170 hours a month. Then you have "OB" which raised that hously wage. My monthly salary was around 20400 back in 2008-2009. That was about 10-11 years ago. Monetary value has increased since then. it's true that 22 000 is just a guess, but considering how much I earned back then, it's no stretch to think that employees earn 22k SEK nowadays.

But even if it was true that 17 000 was the actual wage, that's still enough to live on by itself, unlike what American burgerflippers earn who have to work 2-3 jobs at the same time just to survive. That's 13 605 SEK post taxes. If you can't live on that, as long as you have a cheap apartment for around 4-5000 SEK a month, you need to look up what you spend your money on.

[Combatbutler]

Great, form a union, just keep the government out of it.

Why? They usually have amazing laws against monopolies and cartels.

[Machismo]

Why? They usually have amazing laws against monopolies and cartels.

Well, I support capitalism... that's why.

Unlike you, I support employers, employees, and consumers.

[Deathknightish]

Then, don't take a job that pays less than you think you are worth, and don't shop any any company who pays their employees in such a manner.

Problem solved.

People can't afford to be picky when it comes to jobs. Especially if you are at the very bottom of the barrel.

[Machismo]

People can't afford to be picky when it comes to jobs. Especially if you are at the very bottom of the barrel.

Then, get better. That's like saying the Cleveland Browns should be spotted a free touchdown every game, because they suck.

[Deathknightish]

Then, get better. That's like saying the Cleveland Browns should be spotted a free touchdown every game, because they suck.

Again, there's a part of the population who simply can't get better, for various reasons. Be it stupidity, injury or other reasons. We need to show solidarity towards those people and make sure even they can live worthy lifes.

[JohnBrown1917]

Then, get better. That's like saying the Cleveland Browns should be spotted a free touchdown every game, because they suck.

Its simple, people just need to be born in wealth, its not that hard!

[Machismo]

Again, there's a part of the population who simply can't get better, for various reasons. Be it stupidity, injury or other reasons. We need to show solidarity towards those people and make sure even they can live worthy lifes.

So, other people should be forcefully punished for someone else's stupidity and laziness?

Nah, I'm good.

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Its simple, people just need to be born in wealth, its not that hard!

Or... you know... work for a living, and improve themselves.

[Elegiac]

Or... you know... work for a living, and improve themselves.

The existence of a job market requires people be unemployed - so even if everyone does this, there will still be losers.

Markets are not the solution for everything.

[Machismo]

The existence of a job market requires people be unemployed - so even if everyone does this, there will still be losers.

Markets are not the solution for everything.

And unemployment is a transitional state. 100% employment is an impossibility, but that does not mean the same people remain unemployed.

I fully expect there to be losers within a society. I simply have no desire for the government to be the one to forcefully pick who they are.

[Deathknightish]

So, other people should be forcefully punished for someone else's stupidity and laziness?

Nah, I'm good.

You make it sound like people can't succeed and get rich in countries with worker protections. Not the case at all. Employers aren't being punished as much as the state is making sure that everybody who works at least get to live with dignity.

[JohnBrown1917]

So, other people should be forcefully punished for someone else's stupidity and laziness?

Nah, I'm good.

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Or... you know... work for a living, and improve themselves.

And stilll not get a living wage because capitalists like you exploit the working force. Who do you think is going to do the jobs you consider beneath yourself if everybody 'improved themselves'? And what time are they going to use that if they have to work multiple shitty jobs with long commutes?

[Machismo]

You make it sound like people can't succeed and get rich in countries with worker protections. Not the case at all. Employers aren't being punished as much as the state is making sure that everybody who works at least get to live with dignity.

Of course they can, I never said otherwise. Employers are being forced against their will to do things they otherwise would not want to do. That's a restriction of the free markets, and an attempt to stifle capitalism.

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And stilll not get a living wage because capitalists like you exploit the working force. Who do you think is going to do the jobs you consider beneath yourself if everybody 'improved themselves'? And what time are they going to use that if they have to work multiple shitty jobs with long commutes?

So, don't shop at any of those companies that refuse to pay a "living wage."

Stop having the government do things for you.

There will always be people who are too lazy and/or complacent to improve their standing in life.

[Deathknightish]

Of course they can, I never said otherwise. Employers are being forced against their will to do things they otherwise would not want to do. That's a restriction of the free markets, and an attempt to stifle capitalism.

We are forced to do stuff we don't necessarily want all the time, for the benefit of society as a whole. That's why we have laws. So that the strong can't prey on the weak.

It's true that the rich have it much better in the U.S than in Europe, but it's also true that the poor and the uneducated have it vastly better in Europe compared to the U.S. Because we as a society have decided that it's better if even the weakest get to live lives with dignity.