[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[alturic]

Dumb yank has trouble understanding trade negotiations between nation-states take time shock.

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You vastly overstate the ability of inbred upper-class morons to do anything at all.

Oh, for the past 4 years they've been negotiating trading arrangements? I apologize. Silly me, I thought they've been bickering over leaving, when to leave, how to leave, etc.

[zealo]

Oh, for the past 4 years they've been negotiating trading arrangements? I apologize. Silly me, I thought they've been bickering over leaving, when to leave, how to leave, etc.

What's been bickered over is essentially just how to do the withdrawal of the UK from the EU.

The withdrawal agreement is what it says on the tin, it isn't a trade deal, we've barely even gotten started on that part yet.

[Mormolyce]

In other news that I happened to stumble upon (and I know you all want to hear) no chlorinated chickens for us!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51054700

Theresa Villiers told the BBC the current European Union ban on the two foods will be carried over into UK legislation after Brexit.

Until now the UK has been wavering on the issue.

But she told BBC Countryfile: “There are legal barriers to the imports and those are going to stay in place.”

Brexit hasn't happened yet, the US hasn't started slicing its pound of flesh off your pasty ass-cheeks, so these are just empty words.

In any case I'd be more concerned about your NHS.

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Dumb yank has trouble understanding trade negotiations between nation-states take time shock.

Especially when one side of the negotiations spends four years sticking their heads in the sand and shoving pineapples up their assholes instead of negotiating. Because as soon as they actually get into the negotiations they'd have to accept that they have significantly less leverage than they promised voters and will not get the results they want.

[dribbles]

And just to make it clear; those firms won't vanish. The need for their services won't vanish. They just won't be able to do what they currently do for the EU while based in the UK (which will be outside of the EU). And that's because of EU regulations that the UK demanded were put in place to protect London from outside competition.

So all those firms are going to have to move all or part of their business to some place in the EU itself. Those high earners that pay large amounts of tax will go with them. Some business will remain, of course, but it will be smaller and will be competing with other financial centres around the world.

The Brexit dividend just keeps on giving, doesn't it?

Nonsense, those firms need to go nowhere, least of all the EU. There are only two truly global financial centres, London and New York. And the EU is about to lose access to one of those unless they come to the table and their senses. Will the EU run out of money? Not be able to insure their shipping? It's going to get much more expensive for the EU for those financial services once New York realises they have a monopoly on them.

Oh and that EU/UK trade deal? The UK public demand the EU goes to the back of the queue, they've wasted enough of our time.

In the poll, we gave the readers eight countries to choose from and in overwhelming fashion, they insisted Mr Johnson should agree a trade deal with the US first.

Out of 6,602, 4,287 voted for the US while in second, 911 voted for Australia followed by 544 for the EU.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/12...-deal-leave-eu

Hear Hear!

[Huehuecoyotl]

Nonsense, those firms need to go nowhere, least of all the EU. There are only two truly global financial centres, London and New York. And the EU is about to lose access to one of those unless they come to the table and their senses. Will the EU run out of money? Not be able to insure their shipping? It's going to get much more expensive for the EU for those financial services once New York realises they have a monopoly on them.

Oh and that EU/UK trade deal? The UK public demand the EU goes to the back of the queue, they've wasted enough of our time.

In the poll, we gave the readers eight countries to choose from and in overwhelming fashion, they insisted Mr Johnson should agree a trade deal with the US first.

Out of 6,602, 4,287 voted for the US while in second, 911 voted for Australia followed by 544 for the EU.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/12...-deal-leave-eu

Hear Hear!

Wow, Daily Express readers show their complete lack of understanding of literally everything by thinking that we should "punish" the evil EU for what they've done in the Brexit process so far. Despite the fact that a huge amount of our economy depends on trade with the EU. And you cheer this stupidity?

Why am I even surprised.

And once again you prove that either you don't understand how the EU financial processes work, or are trying to pretend they don't work the way that they do. Are you hoping that if you close your eyes and wish it will become true? Because that seems to be the go-to approach for the Brexit crew. The EU won't be able to use London once the UK leaves the EU. Not without changing their own rules. Want to bet that changing those rules are going to be one of their priorities in the rushed negotiations this year? And if they do, want to bet just how much the UK will have to give away for that to happen?

I'm thinking first born and left testicles. At a minimum.

But as long as the Express readers keep believing in the unicorns, we must be in with a chance, right? Right?!?

[Gorsameth]

Thankfully Dribbles is here to remind the internet how clueless Brexit voters are.
The EU isn't going to lose access to the London Financial Sector. London is going to lose its financial sector (most of it anyway, a small branch office will likely remain for all the relevant organisations).
The only reason London has such a big gathering of them is Because it gave unlimited access to the EU. Without it there is no reason to remain with such a big presence.

[Jessicka]

Democracy does not work in societies dependent upon increasingly complex systems. (Trade & economy, legislation, science, etc.)

A sad reality.

No. A misinformed society doesn’t work, democracy or not.

Having less democracy doesn’t help in informing anyone.

The UK’s problem stems from widespread deliberate misinformation and a poor manner of choosing its representatives.

A PR system wouldn’t have produced a hard line Brexit government. Indeed it would never have produced a Tory government to pass a referendum in the first place.

[dribbles]

Wow, Daily Express readers show their complete lack of understanding of literally everything by thinking that we should "punish" the evil EU for what they've done in the Brexit process so far. Despite the fact that a huge amount of our economy depends on trade with the EU. And you cheer this stupidity?

Why am I even surprised.

And once again you prove that either you don't understand how the EU financial processes work, or are trying to pretend they don't work the way that they do. Are you hoping that if you close your eyes and wish it will become true? Because that seems to be the go-to approach for the Brexit crew. The EU won't be able to use London once the UK leaves the EU. Not without changing their own rules. Want to bet that changing those rules are going to be one of their priorities in the rushed negotiations this year? And if they do, want to bet just how much the UK will have to give away for that to happen?

I'm thinking first born and left testicles. At a minimum.

But as long as the Express readers keep believing in the unicorns, we must be in with a chance, right? Right?!?

What I do understand as fact is that London today, right now, is the biggest trader of Euro denominated derivatives in the world. It will take decades for EU micro hubs spread haphazardly across the continent with language and geographic barriers, if they ever can, to offer a credible alternative.

Nah London will be fine and unless Frankfurters or Parisian financiers want to start their working day at 3 pm, when New York opens, and not finish until after midnight nothing will change. And that is even if the silly EU working time directive allows them to do that. And before the silly imposition of an EU wide financial transaction tax.

If the EU jumps off the brexit cliff edge and loses access to London financial services overnight they will be bust within hours.

The EU have no cards to play, they are all held by the UK.

[Twdft]

The City will just bugger off to Frankfurt.

[Jessicka]

Can you be informed about certain topics though? Isn't there a point where complexity overwhelms your ability to be informed without specialized knowledge?

That's the whole point of elected officials, so they can make those complex choices. But once again, in a system which is undermined by vested interests, that can be manipulated into bringing down an election to a few key areas to produce a substantial majority in the house with a minority of the vote.

Complex issues can then be boiled down to nothing but a few minor fights in small areas.

Again, this isn't a democracy problem. It's a nature of our intentionally rigged system, built for gerrymandering, and to make campaigning easier by virtue of focusing direction.

When one vote is worth many times another's, then you can no longer call it a democratic system. So it's not a failure of democracy, and frankly, what's the alternative? A dictatorship of those self same vested interests?

[Huehuecoyotl]

What I do understand as fact is that London today, right now, is the biggest trader of Euro denominated derivatives in the world. It will take decades for EU micro hubs spread haphazardly across the continent with language and geographic barriers, if they ever can, to offer a credible alternative.

Nah London will be fine and unless Frankfurters or Parisian financiers want to start their working day at 3 pm, when New York opens, and not finish until after midnight nothing will change. And that is even if the silly EU working time directive allows them to do that. And before the silly imposition of an EU wide financial transaction tax.

If the EU jumps off the brexit cliff edge and loses access to London financial services overnight they will be bust within hours.

The EU have no cards to play, they are all held by the UK.

THEY. WILL. LEAVE.

If they can't do business with the EU from the UK, they will take that part of the business and move it to one of the 27 countries where they are allowed to do it. If we're lucky they will leave the non EU business behind and we won't lose everything. If we aren't lucky, those companies will decide not to split themselves and they will move the lot.

Oh, and the EU business is worth £204bn. A year. Or to put it terms you understand it's £4bn a week. Or more than 10 times larger than the figure written on the side of that bus. Hear that sound dribbles? That's the sound of your Brexit dividend burning up like spit on a griddle. Best brace yourself, you're going to get a LOT of news like this in the coming year.

[Jessicka]

In what way is the working time directive, that stops employers requiring stupidly long hours from staff and helps health and safety of said staff, silly?

The guy thinks Dickensian workhouses are the zenith of capitalist productivity.

[dribbles]

THEY. WILL. LEAVE.

If they can't do business with the EU from the UK, they will take that part of the business and move it to one of the 27 countries where they are allowed to do it. If we're lucky they will leave the non EU business behind and we won't lose everything. If we aren't lucky, those companies will decide not to split themselves and they will move the lot.

Oh, and the EU business is worth £204bn. A year. Or to put it terms you understand it's £4bn a week. Or more than 10 times larger than the figure written on the side of that bus. Hear that sound dribbles? That's the sound of your Brexit dividend burning up like spit on a griddle. Best brace yourself, you're going to get a LOT of news like this in the coming year.

Except all evidence shows that bankers are not leaving London, perhaps its the WTD, perhaps it's capped bonuses. None want to go. You can't bake bread without bakers and you can't do banking without the bankers.

and even Brussels recognises this granting yet another 12 month extension, but with no practical end date in sight, to City of London equivalence. In essence Brussels have accepted UK supremacy in financial services over the EU and will be UK rule takers in those markets post Brexit with no say in how those rules are made.

They've had 3 years to prepare, how much longer are they going to mess everyone around?

At some point the UK should say to the EU enough is enough and cut their access to the city off, if they are unwilling to jump perhaps they need a helpful push from the UK over that cliff.

EU set to offer derivatives industry extra year to prepare for Brexit

Valdis Dombrovskis, vice-president of the European Commission, said on Friday that contingency plans for accessing UK-based
clearing houses would have to be extended beyond the current March 2020 end date because the EU financial services industry
would not have alternatives in place in time.

Mr Dombrovskis did not specify what the new end date would be for the emergency equivalence measure.

https://www.ft.com/content/45a46cae-...2-34c8d9dc6d84

[Jessicka]

Except all evidence shows that bankers are not leaving London

Many already did, most banks scaled down their London operations significantly in the past few years already. The uncertainty wasn't worth it.

[Gorsameth]

Except all evidence shows that bankers are not leaving London, perhaps its the WTD, perhaps it's capped bonuses. None want to go. You can't bake bread without bakers and you can't do banking without the bankers.

and even Brussels recognises this granting yet another 12 month extension, but with no practical end date in sight, to City of London equivalence. In essence Brussels have accepted UK supremacy in financial services over the EU and will be UK rule takers in those markets post Brexit with no say in how those rules are made.

They've had 3 years to prepare, how much longer are they going to mess everyone around?

At some point the UK should say to the EU enough is enough and cut their access to the city off, if they are unwilling to jump perhaps they need a helpful push from the UK over that cliff.

EU set to offer derivatives industry extra year to prepare for Brexit

Valdis Dombrovskis, vice-president of the European Commission, said on Friday that contingency plans for accessing UK-based
clearing houses would have to be extended beyond the current March 2020 end date because the EU financial services industry
would not have alternatives in place in time.

Mr Dombrovskis did not specify what the new end date would be for the emergency equivalence measure.

https://www.ft.com/content/45a46cae-...2-34c8d9dc6d84

Literally the first hit from Google from October, so back when there was still some hope of a softer exit

New Financial says 332 financial services firms have already moved jobs out of London because of Brexit, up from 60 last time they looked in March.

https://news.efinancialcareers.com/u...-out-of-london

[dribbles]

Literally the first hit from Google from October, so back when there was still some hope of a softer exithttps://news.efinancialcareers.com/u...-out-of-london

Really?

From your link many don't mention numbers of employees moving to the EU though do they? Picking one at random that they do boast about we can see UK headquartered RBS expect, not confirmed yet, to move 150 employees to Amsterdam.

Wowzer.

150 out of the 71200 they employ or 0.002% of their employees. What a massive bonus for the EU, I can see why you are so excited. I'm betting their new EU hub will be a great loss maker for them and if they should happen to make a profit there, unlikely, well that'll be diverted back with clever accounting through to their UK HQ.

Is that all you got as a downside to Brexit?

[Gorsameth]

Really?

From your link many don't mention numbers of employees moving to the EU though do they? Picking one at random that they do boast about we can see UK headquartered RBS expect, not confirmed yet, to move 150 employees to Amsterdam.

Wowzer.

150 out of the 71200 they employ or 0.002% of their employees. What a massive bonus for the EU, I can see why you are so excited. I'm betting their new EU hub will be a great loss maker for them and if they should happen to make a profit there, unlikely, well that'll be diverted back with clever accounting through to their UK HQ.

Is that all you got as a downside to Brexit?

Right, because when a company moves part of their operation to another city all the jobs at the old location stay...
Your grasping for straws like every time someone proves you wrong.

[Tipolas]

Except all evidence shows that bankers are not leaving London

You say that like it is a good thing. It was the one thing I was actually looking forward to about Brexit.

You are mostly right about them not leaving, at least if we ignore the ones that left already. Bankers and the super-rich generally are not as "rational" as is commonly thought when it comes to leaving countries for the purposes of accruing economic advantages or avoiding disadvantages. Things like the number of and access to golf courses make more difference statistically than things which "should" matter in terms of economic competitiveness.

That said I have no idea why any one wants these useless parasitical organizations to stay*. They only generate tax revenue because they receive massive subsidies: not just the bailout, the insane amount of digital money-printing through quantitative easing, "implicit subsidy" a range of political programs that are de facto subsidies masquerading as something else such as the first-time buyer program. Then there's the cost of systemic corruption, the horrific drag effect on the rest of the economy....do the math on banking in general and it is questionable whether they ever produced any profit at all when you take away all those subsidies.

And you think it is a good thing the bankers haven't left. Take back control, my arse.

* Actually I do know why. It is because the media constantly talks about the profits the city generates without ever mentioning the ongoing subsidies, and most people swallow it.

[gtempest]

Thats because the media and some senior politicians are heavily linked with the city, they very much have alterior motives for misleading joe public.
It will be interesting to see how they sell deregulation and more corporate tax breaks as a good thing to their new northern voters.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

Nah London will be fine and unless Frankfurters or Parisian financiers want to start their working day at 3 pm, when New York opens, and not finish until after midnight nothing will change. And that is even if the silly EU working time directive allows them to do that. And before the silly imposition of an EU wide financial transaction tax.

The London Stock Exchange is all closed up for business by 5:15 pm UK time. The Frankfurt stock exchange doesn't stop work until 8 pm (7pm UK time).