Tier Sets: "You think you want them back... but you don't."

[darklogrus]

The worst feeling about a tier set is when you get an non-set upgrade and can't use it, because tier set bonus is that powerful, so, yeah, i don't miss them and don't want them back

Even worse feeling when the Az piece you finally get that's +25 ilvls higher is a 3k Dps loss because it doesn't have the 2 right traits..

[Skorpionss]

WTF is with that "logic". Dude, the only positive aspect of tier sets were visual aspects. And I don't see a problem with doing visual sets without set bonuses.

Perfect implementation was in Trial of Valor - Ensembles.

Nobody strived for this shit, lol, it was necessity and was completed in 3 weeks and forgotten till next tier.
And Vast majority of set bonuses were just that - boring stat sticks.

I don't give a shit about item level, so what if I only get upgrades for some pieces more slowly (u still aim for TF for those pieces so they can be higher iLVL anyway), but you have a nifty effect that boosts your character in different ways depending on spec, not just +25agil/crit/haste etc.

Yeah ideally they'd have more pieces in the set not just 5 or 6, they could make sets with all the armor pieces, but only require 4pieces equipped to get the full bonus. so you can mix and match with what upgrades you get.

This idea of yours that +25 base stats is better than tier effects sounds to me like you'd rather play a different MMO than WoW, because Tier sets are and always will be a staple of WoW.

Same as with weirdos wanting sets gone from Diablo lol.

[kaminaris]

I don't give a shit about item level, so what if I only get upgrades for some pieces more slowly (u still aim for TF for those pieces so they can be higher iLVL anyway), but you have a nifty effect that boosts your character in different ways depending on spec, not just +25agil/crit/haste etc.

Yeah ideally they'd have more pieces in the set not just 5 or 6, they could make sets with all the armor pieces, but only require 4pieces equipped to get the full bonus. so you can mix and match with what upgrades you get.

This idea of yours that +25 base stats is better than tier effects sounds to me like you'd rather play a different MMO than WoW, because Tier sets are and always will be a staple of WoW.

Same as with weirdos wanting sets gone from Diablo lol.

It's called being rational. Not wanting to lock down your gear just because 4 items are stronger than anything else. 6 slot bonuses will be the same shit as in legion, so you wore 4+2. Literally worst idea.

Tier sets were shit from beginning so no wonder they finally removed it, hopefully they will never return.

[Skorpionss]

It's called being rational. Not wanting to lock down your gear just because 4 items are stronger than anything else. 6 slot bonuses will be the same shit as in legion, so you wore 4+2. Literally worst idea.

Tier sets were shit from beginning so no wonder they finally removed it, hopefully they will never return.

You can combat that so you only can have 1 tier set bonus active at one time, not that I care if ppl use 4+2.

And how are you locking down your gear when you can have the same tier piece with a TF on it? in the end all gear will be the same ilvl at their max. It might just take a little longer to get your tier piece to TF, big whoop. Or they can implement a system where you can transfer the TF from a piece to another.

[kaminaris]

You can combat that so you only can have 1 tier set bonus active at one time, not that I care if ppl use 4+2.

And how are you locking down your gear when you can have the same tier piece with a TF on it? in the end all gear will be the same ilvl at their max. It might just take a little longer to get your tier piece to TF, big whoop. Or they can implement a system where you can transfer the TF from a piece to another.

Or we can just drop tier sets and forget about that abomination enjoying normal gear or azerite-like gear (configurable-tier-sets-available-not-only-from-raids).

That does not titanforge nor have those issues since you can get different better piece based on situation.

[Biomega]

Tier sets are horrible.

That doesn't mean Azerite gear isn't ALSO horrible (it is).

We want MORE gearing options, not less. Eternal Palace was the pinnacle of fucked-up gearing - Heart of Azeroth, 3 Azerite pieces, 4 Benthic pieces were effectively locked slots that no alternative even at substantially higher ilvl could compete with (plus stuff like Mechagon bracers for Fire Mage). Gearing in that raid was a nightmare, because everything got chucked and people just felt bad when they didn't get one of the weapons/trinkets that everyone wanted (hi there, Azshara staff).

We don't need that shit.

Make the progression system gear-agnostic or something. Scale with ilvl, sure, but don't lock slots. Azerite LOOKED interesting until you realized every spec just had 2 traits they wanted and everything else was garbage. Specs with Glimmer of Light/Streaking Stars/etc. used Azerite pieces of substantially lower ilvl just to stack traits. Bad, bad, bad.

COSMETIC tier sets I'm all for.

The MECHANICS of effects like tier set bonuses I'm all for.

But LOCKING GEAR SLOTS to 4 specific pieces? NO THANKS.

[PaladinBash]

I mean I don't like to side with Blizzard on a lot of their anti-community decisions but they're right about tier gear pissing people off. I remember kids crying that they had to keep old pieces of tier from previous raids to use a critical effect from them. I remember them crying they didn't get a gem socket on a tier piece when they used the token. Tier causes endless bitching but no more than the endless bitching gear causes anyway with the added bitching of "why isn't there tier gearrrrrrrrrr". No way, you can fuck off with that nonsense. If you want tier back because you think it's cool and like it, make that your argument. It's true and honest and fair. I can appreciate that because lots of tier sets looked cool and had interesting effects. Don't try to weasel around and say "hurr durr it'll stop X argument" or "Y won't be an issue anymore" because it fucking will. It always is. Just as you can see the many years where "tier wasn't a problem", you just have to overlook the many cries about tier changing from a good raid to a shit raid or that someone's spec got made better or worse and everything else. It was another knob that got turned around needlessly and caused endless crying.

If you still want it because you like it, that's fine. Don't say it will fix anything though. Nobody believes that.

[Skorpionss]

Or we can just drop tier sets and forget about that abomination enjoying normal gear or azerite-like gear (configurable-tier-sets-available-not-only-from-raids).

That does not titanforge nor have those issues since you can get different better piece based on situation.

I mean if they found a system that combines both worlds I'd be all for it (aesthethics of tier sets and bonuses that aren't tied to specific gear). But they tried it with Azerite and it's a bigger fail to me.

I think something like higher ilvl unlocks better effects might be worth exploring, that way you get even more incentive to equip higher level items than base stats (which might be suboptimal sometimes, but will be worth it if you're close to reaching the next powerup).

Or keep the current azerite system but tweak it so u can switch powers on gear, like you have an ilvl 400 azerite chest piece that has a trait you need on it, and an ilvl 425 chest piece that doesn't have that trait, you can sacrifice the 400 piece to transfer the trait you need from it and replace one of the traits on the 425 piece.

But mostly I want gear with cool effects rather than just stat sticks. I very much enjoyed the Legiondaries because of this (not the way they were acquired though, the RNG sucked ballz).

Also, fuck RNG sockets, fuck them right back to whoever came up with that idea.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I miss sets overall, not just tier sets. Including set bonuses. It was something to strive for, even if individually some pieces were weaker than other non-set pieces, they offest that by the set bonus which is nice.

They should bring them back, including dungeon sets and maybe some crafted sets, and not just armor, but maybe a combination of neck, rings and trinkets, weapon sets for dual wielding classes/sword and board classes.

You know, like back in the olden days, not this watered down trash that only has stat sticks on all your slots (for the most part).

You are aware that there are some sets you can get in dungeons right? Or items with procs or other functions. Not every thing is a stat stick.

[123youshowme]

Tier sets are horrible.

That doesn't mean Azerite gear isn't ALSO horrible (it is).

We want MORE gearing options, not less. Eternal Palace was the pinnacle of fucked-up gearing - Heart of Azeroth, 3 Azerite pieces, 4 Benthic pieces were effectively locked slots that no alternative even at substantially higher ilvl could compete with (plus stuff like Mechagon bracers for Fire Mage). Gearing in that raid was a nightmare, because everything got chucked and people just felt bad when they didn't get one of the weapons/trinkets that everyone wanted (hi there, Azshara staff).

We don't need that shit.

Make the progression system gear-agnostic or something. Scale with ilvl, sure, but don't lock slots. Azerite LOOKED interesting until you realized every spec just had 2 traits they wanted and everything else was garbage. Specs with Glimmer of Light/Streaking Stars/etc. used Azerite pieces of substantially lower ilvl just to stack traits. Bad, bad, bad.

COSMETIC tier sets I'm all for.

The MECHANICS of effects like tier set bonuses I'm all for.

But LOCKING GEAR SLOTS to 4 specific pieces? NO THANKS.

explain how azerite locks you when you don't have non-azerite gear to use.

Were you locked into the legion artifact? (hint: you weren't, it's not like you had alternatives you were dying to use and you couldn't)
Azerite works because all shoulders/chests/helmets are azerite gear. It's not like with tier where you actually had (usually better statted) options that you *couldn't* use because they weren't tier pieces.

Borrowing this from another earlier post, but https://www.darklegacycomics.com/612

People arguing over cosmetics will always be funny cus no matter what it is, unless it's rehashed T6, kids on here will complain and call it ugly

[Toxuvox]

explain how azerite locks you when you don't have non-azerite gear to use.

Were you locked into the legion artifact? (hint: you weren't, it's not like you had alternatives you were dying to use and you couldn't)
Azerite works because all shoulders/chests/helmets are azerite gear. It's not like with tier where you actually had (usually better statted) options that you *couldn't* use because they weren't tier pieces.

Borrowing this from another earlier post, but https://www.darklegacycomics.com/612

People arguing over cosmetics will always be funny cus no matter what it is, unless it's rehashed T6, kids on here will complain and call it ugly

I'm assuming that being locked in with Azerite pieces, it means in terms of Azerite Traits. I've had an ilvl upgrade piece that I couldn't use because the traits that came with it were dogshit, and using the upgrade piece presents a real terms DPS loss.

[msdos]

In my opinion, as long as you can't do anything to the gear, it will never be interesting. For some reason they don't do baseline stats anymore. Everything has to be a trait now and everything has to be soulbound forever.
I think where azerite gear misses the mark is that it's too generic and confined by an out dated engine. None of the azerite abilities are allowed to have any utility attached to them, they're all just generic dots/hots/stats, very poorly executed and a lot of them are indistinguishable from anything else you do.

That's what draws me to games like Path of Exile. My best pair of gloves are something I crafted and are one of a kind basically. Also my power scales the more wealthy I become in the game as well as how much time I put into it.

In WoW, wealth is almost meaningless in terms of power progression and all the progression is gated over a year, the tiniest bit of content is stretched beyond belief sooooo long over the course of 12 months and the gear isn't implemented all at once, you have to wait for each patch for the gear to be implemented, there are exactly zero short-cuts and that's another thing that bothers me about WoW now. The content is slowly burped out and you kinda twiddle your thumbs. It's not that there's not enough of it, it's just that there's too much crap and not enough MEAT, so you're stuck twiddling your thumbs while they work on stupid BS like bug fixes, reverting things, pet battles, model updates scheduled from 3 years ago, ancient forgotten auction house update, random eye ball shader change, golden eyes for elves, smh...

[durrtygoodz]

The worst feeling about a tier set is when you get an non-set upgrade and can't use it, because tier set bonus is that powerful, so, yeah, i don't miss them and don't want them back

That's an oxymoron. If the "upgrade" isn't worth equipping over the tier, it's not an upgrade.

[123youshowme]

I'm assuming that being locked in with Azerite pieces, it means in terms of Azerite Traits. I've had an ilvl upgrade piece that I couldn't use because the traits that came with it were dogshit, and using the upgrade piece presents a real terms DPS loss.

imagine not having 450s with good traits

(also, the trait is the important thing, not the itemlevel)

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That's an oxymoron. If the "upgrade" isn't worth equipping over the tier, it's not an upgrade.

also, this.

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In my opinion, as long as you can't do anything to the gear, it will never be interesting. For some reason they don't do baseline stats anymore. Everything has to be a trait now and everything has to be soulbound forever.
I think where azerite gear misses the mark is that it's too generic and confined by an out dated engine. None of the azerite abilities are allowed to have any utility attached to them, they're all just generic dots/hots/stats, very poorly executed and a lot of them are indistinguishable from anything else you do.

That's what draws me to games like Path of Exile. My best pair of gloves are something I crafted and are one of a kind basically. Also my power scales the more wealthy I become in the game as well as how much time I put into it.

In WoW, wealth is almost meaningless in terms of power progression and all the progression is gated over a year, the tiniest bit of content is stretched beyond belief sooooo long over the course of 12 months and the gear isn't implemented all at once, you have to wait for each patch for the gear to be implemented, there are exactly zero short-cuts and that's another thing that bothers me about WoW now. The content is slowly burped out and you kinda twiddle your thumbs. It's not that there's not enough of it, it's just that there's too much crap and not enough MEAT, so you're stuck twiddling your thumbs while they work on stupid BS like bug fixes, reverting things, pet battles, model updates scheduled from 3 years ago, ancient forgotten auction house update, random eye ball shader change, golden eyes for elves, smh...

I can tell you never played at the start of any expansion, because *all* expansions have had a gate on doing stuff, be it time or gear.
You couldn't waltz into MC, you needed FR.
You couldn't waltz into SSC, you needed attunement. Couldn't even do heroics because rep for key.

loljk you could walk into naxx25 though. Prob why people loved wotlk eh?

[Super Kami Dende]

Moving bonuses from tier sets to Necklace was the best thing they ever did. Being locked into certain Tier pieces was bullshit most of the time.

If they just had Class themed gear i'd be fine with that.

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That's an oxymoron. If the "upgrade" isn't worth equipping over the tier, it's not an upgrade.

Hence the annoyance that new gear was worthless since Tier was too powerful to make any gear regardless of the Ilvl increase pointless. Having to keep a last tier piece of gear on because the bonus is too good and basically ignoring much of a new tier is just bad design.

[123youshowme]

Moving bonuses from tier sets to Necklace was the best thing they ever did. Being locked into certain Tier pieces was bullshit most of the time.

If they just had Class themed gear i'd be fine with that.

- - - Updated - - -



Hence the annoyance that new gear was worthless since Tier was too powerful to make any gear regardless of the Ilvl increase pointless. Having to keep a last tier piece of gear on because the bonus is too good and basically ignoring much of a new tier is just bad design.

I never understood being able to pull 13 different kinds of armour out of 1 corpse but who knows.

[durrtygoodz]

Hence the annoyance that new gear was worthless since Tier was too powerful to make any gear regardless of the Ilvl increase pointless. Having to keep a last tier piece of gear on because the bonus is too good and basically ignoring much of a new tier is just bad design.

They made this argument redundant by increasing the number of tier slots to 6 whilst keeping the set bonuses on 2 and 4. Tier is supposed to be powerful. It's what you built your stats and playstyle around each tier. It was the raid exclusive reward, separating organised group content from m+ pugs.

[PenguinChan]

I'm almost certain because Blizzard has been in the mindset of everything they make has to be done by everyone (almost, anyways) - if we get tier sets back we're going to have Cataclysm tier sets again, but probably all of it instead of partial sets. I don't mind that honestly, but it'll probably upset some raiders.

[Echocho]

Lots of quotes there. Do you happen to have a source for them?

I don't remember them ever saying "you think you do, but you don't" regarding tier sets.

[123youshowme]

I'm almost certain because Blizzard has been in the mindset of everything they make has to be done by everyone (almost, anyways) - if we get tier sets back we're going to have Cataclysm tier sets again, but probably all of it instead of partial sets. I don't mind that honestly, but it'll probably upset some raiders.

It will absolutely destroy non-mythic raiding as a gearing avenue.
Grats on having to go pug raids on all your characters to not be completely irrelevant.